Babylon...The culture capital of the world???

DS_Legionary · Sep 16, 2003

It seems to me that Babylon is just a pushover. Not very powerful at all. In all of my games that I've played with the Babylons in it they have been either last, or close it, & about to be destroyed by some other civ. Now why in the hands of a human player they are one of the best civs in the game, but in AI hands it will diminish and crumble into non-existence???? Does the AI not understand culture or what???? You'd think that they would be able to at least last the whole game, but in my case, as far as I remember they never had.

Gengis Khan · Sep 16, 2003

Because for the AI the religious & scientific traits aren't nearly as strong as militaristic, industrial, or expansionist. On top of that they're not very agressive(IIRC). An agressive civ is willing to take risks, normally against a human player that will be their downfall. But put Shaka on a isolated island with 4 other AI civs & I bet at least 6 times outa 10 he'll be the dominate civ.

My 2c.

edit- Part of the reason Babylon hardly ever makes it through the whole game is they have a tendency to hog up alot of wonders. When a civ that has a higher military strenght(because they didn't build 3 ancient wonders) sees such an easy & valuable target they get a little over zealous.

puwen · Sep 16, 2003

Originally posted by Gengis Khan
. On top of that they're not very agressive(IIRC).

Infact they have an aggression level of 4 and usually love early wars with their bowman which I think is why they fall back (since AI can't handle early wars)

Santiago · Sep 16, 2003

Babylon can be formidable if they get a good starting position. In my gaming experience, if they get past the ancient age successfully, they have a strong cultural influence and pick up techs very quickly. They were a royal pain in my last game.

Mongoloid Cow · Sep 16, 2003

Yeah, I reckon it does depend on how they start. They are either very powerful or very weak - never in between.

DS_Legionary · Sep 16, 2003

Hmmmm, just started a new game today, and guess who was by me. The Babylonians!!!!!!! As far I can tell they're starting position is ok. Let's see how they do this time.

sealman · Sep 16, 2003

Aggression level of a 4, unless they are playing against me, in which case their aggression jumps up to 10+

Aggie · Sep 17, 2003

Originally posted by Gengis Khan
Because for the AI the religious & scientific traits aren't nearly as strong as militaristic, industrial, or expansionist.

I don't agree. Religious and scientific are great traits, imho at least as good as militaristic and mostly far better than expansionist. Industrious is in another league.

Furthermore, Babylon is often a strong civ in my games! Firaxis balanced the civs very well and all of them can have good or bad games. Starting positions are often crucial.

Krayzeenbk · Sep 17, 2003

In my experience, the Babylonians start many games by building only a few cities (3 or 4 on a standard map) instead of rapidly expanding like the other AI. Maybe this is because they are building wonders...

Zapp Brannigan · Sep 17, 2003

I am playing my third game right now in Warlord mode, and this is the first time I am not first in Culture power and score, becuase Babylon is beating me in all 3! :eek:

Babylon is the the Worlds biggest superpowerm with myself (Rome) trying to catch of glipse of his taillights through the dust.

Babylon got to this point by staging a late Ancient era war against India, and anihalating them takeing over their 15 cities.

Lucky They are my biggest ally, and through a some what deviuos use of MPP got them (alnog with Egypt and Greece) TO help me take down number 3 civ Persia.

This game strikes me ass odd, becuase Babylon is very war hungry, even now inthe industrial Age.

Little do thjey know I have a spy planted in Babylon, and I am secretly plotting to turn all the other civs against them, and claim the number 1 spot. :thumbsup:

Aggie · Sep 17, 2003

Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
This game strikes me ass odd, becuase Babylon is very war hungry, even now inthe industrial Age.

Good to have some confirmation that Babylon often IS a very strong opponent

But they ARE war hungry. Even worse on higher levels. Nothing odd there.

Generalissimo · Sep 17, 2003

In most of my games Babylon usualy gets taken out by the Zulu or Mongols, but usualy secure an island or two, so they stay in the game. In my last game Babylon was only a 1 city Civilization on a one square island from about 50 BC until the 1999 AD when I decided to send over a marine and take out their pikeman.

DS_Legionary · Sep 17, 2003

Well this time the Babs got a good start on my map. They're doing pretty good this time around. They have a firaly large amount of territory (larger than mine) and they have built 3-4 wonders. Tech wise we are equal. Seems to me that after I finish killing the greeks they will be next on my hit list. Only problem is the Iroquis are in my way, luckily though I have been trading with them heavily, and they are Gracious towards me. So getting a MA and RoP shouldn't be to hard

Superevie · Sep 17, 2003

The babs are terribly strong culturally, but not military wise. I've never have them come over a kick my butt. I've played them before, and I've okay. I was going for a cultural win, but I got bored midway through. One time, I had never ever won before, so I set up the Babs. I played as America, built up an insane amount of troops and only played against the Babs. I stemrolled them and finished while just cracking the Middle Ages. I got a score of 1222, the highest I've had to date.

Hammi didn't like that though...

theGrimm · Sep 18, 2003

In a recent game, Hammi started on a big continent with Germany, England, Persia, Zulus, and I started with India and Japan on a small island.

By the industrial age, I had conquered my little island as the Chinese, and Babylon had totally steamrolled the Germans, Persians and Zulu, and pretty much squashed England. A long war followed, of course, between the dominant world powers. Babylon, with far more land, would have out-teched and out produced me.

Oh, and a bit of RNG hell...despite being a militaristic civ with hoardes of elites, I never got a single Leader, but encountered at least three Bab armies in our wars...schmucks

Nevertheless, the point remains...Babylon can get nasty

anarres · Sep 18, 2003

FWIW, on higher levels Religous is a lame trait for the AI. The AI get very short anarchy on Deity, I believe it's just 1 turn, and 2 on Emperor. That's the best part of the trait wasted....

SuperBeaverInc. · Sep 18, 2003

As people have stated many times in this thread, start location is crucial! Babylon can be a very pathetic civ in a game, or a superpower, all depending on how they start. In my current game(I'm Babylon

), I have the lead in power, score, and possibly culture. Altough all the AI beat me to most of the wonders(except Hanging Gardens and Great Library

) In the hands of a human player, Babylon, along with any civ, can become lethal.

As you can see, I started on decent sized island, which limited space and wonder building, so I just invaded Russia :lol:

and captured the Colussus(and half their country with bowmen)

Babylon...The culture capital of the world???

DS_Legionary

King

Gengis Khan

Deity

puwen

Me? just lurking

Santiago

Chieftain

Mongoloid Cow

Great Khan

DS_Legionary

King

sealman

Hater of Babylonians

Aggie

Deity

Krayzeenbk

Rocket Constructor

Zapp Brannigan

Lord of the Idiots

Aggie

Deity

Generalissimo

Chieftain

DS_Legionary

King

Superevie

Latina Goddess™

theGrimm

Reaper Man

anarres

anarchist revolutionary

SuperBeaverInc.

Groucho

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