CarmenNES04: Seeds of the Earth

The Farow said:

He did say that the flat black cross is hard to see against the black borders. I would have to agree as in my NESes people kept putting cities on little islands which was a pain to get to work . We do need a better way of making our cities perhaps a dark grey color so you can distinguish it from black borders?

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That might work. However, bear in mind that the current cradle map is zoomed in 200%.

Imagine how small those cities would be once the full map is revealed. (The full world map, in case you're wondering, is the same size as the Symphony D. Earth map, I believe)

Yeah, we're gonna need a better mapping system soon.

EDIT: I mean, its hard to see even now the red capitals in this cradle at 100% zoom.

You can always use Symphony's cities, which are a 3 x 3 box with the center blank and the outside a shade of gray IIRC.

Matt0088 said:

You can always use Symphony's cities, which are a 3 x 3 box with the center blank and the outside a shade of gray IIRC.

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The current cities are 2 x 2 red boxes. I'm not sure if I could fit in 3 x 3 boxes.

Even then, I REALLY don't like the look of Symphony's cities, no offense intended.

Maybe you can have cities 'Grow' and have one map for Features such as City Centers, Borders, Great Fortifications, Mountains, rivers, and another for Urban Sprawl/borders. Then, when we get to the modern age, the whole cradle is a huge blob of a metropolis fighting against the world!

EDIT:

Confederation of Jorise/Charles Li
Nationalism and Code of Laws/Council of the Clans
Capital & Major Cities: Yuthouri
Economy: 1 (1+0)/0/0
Size: Tiny (1)
Stability: 50% (Neutral)
Infrastructure: 10% (Horrible)
Education: 0% (None)
Army: 2 Infantry Companies, 1 Light Cavalry
Navy: 1 Galley
Projects/Wonders:

Jorise is not a nation in any sense: it doesn't have a single government, it doesn't have a single leader, and it doesn't have a unified landscape. But it does have two things: an intense nationalism from fighting off various migrating tribes and an eye for profit. In many senses it was like the greek city states, except there is only one city, and the great villages are all friendly to each other.

The City is the only place where the many Jorii of the confederation see each other, Clam divers from the north, gem finders to the east, seaweed harvesters to the west and giant fish hunters to the south. It is here that the Clan Leaders of the many Villages send their extra produce to be traded and exchanged. It is here that, once every few years, the Clan Leaders all meet: sick or young, old or healthy, and discuss the future. Many times it was almost lost, or destroyed, or once, even had its ground salted, but every time the Jorii returned, cleansed the land, and rebuilt the city. It had a mythical purpose as well as an economical and military one.

A Great Fleet is concentrated here, as many as 40 professional and trained ship crews can be called up from the city itself, while each coastal village can promise at least one galley for trade and national defence.

Also, 500 footmen are also based here, called from close-lying villages to defend the nation. More cound be called up if needed, but for the young culture, it was enough to police the lands.

Finally, a group of 200 or so militia men are mounted to the far south, and could be counted on to fight. They come from a wider area of the mountain-hemmed coast, and found plains of horses and cattle. These men are often counted on to make chase to drive off any invaders, or more commenly, to ride down a stray flock.

Together, these people trust their lives to each other in a bond that is past material but spiritual, Jorise will trust itself, and almost only itself, to survive.

EDIT: Maybe not. It's o.k- I'll stay where I am.

Charles, I'm pretty sure nationalism wasn't really around during ancient times. Especially not intense nationalism.

Ninja Dude said:

Charles, I'm pretty sure nationalism wasn't really around during ancient times. Especially not intense nationalism.

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Nations truly did not exist in ancient times. Arguably, not even until the Late Medieval Period.

Just some comparison to help prove my point. Also, the color that I have Viusenith as is what I want regardless of what you do for the map.

carmen510 said:

I think I have fixed the map. Tell me what you think of it so far.

(Note: Quality may have been slightly messed up since I needed to double pixel count and such. Damned zoom levels won't upload correctly so I need to manually expand it.)

Update 0 should commence by tomorrow or on WedNESday, should this map be sufficient.

Click to expand...

You missed my spot.

Ok, ok, I'll call it Culturism. Is that fine with you Ninja?

Charles Li said:

Ok, ok, I'll call it Culturism. Is that fine with you Ninja?

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Changing the name doesn't change the idea. But whatever floats your boat. Carmen can decide this.

Now I think about it, some of my stuff may include a bit of nationalism as well (primarily wishful thinking- I wanted to include anti-nationalism, of which nationalism was an essential part. The trouble is that anti-nationalism is practically the whole League of People's character concept.

Claredite Culture circa 1400 YN*
The Claredites were the second most important culture in the early League. Nowhere near a mainstream part of Ebrite culture, they were in fact a seperate tradition with it's own roots near Centre Point**. Unlike the more intellectual culture of the Ebrites, theirs was at this point a culture of conventional nomads, if with some unique achievements like any other.

Some things are worth noticing about them, however. First, while their skin was not objectively pale compared to those around it they seemed uniquely so- especially compared to the Ebrites they would later conquer. Second, their religion was primarily a synthesis of outsider influences- for whatever reason, religious ideas had not occured to them as early as to others.

Finally, most although not all cultures around them saw them, paradoxically given their religion, as barbaric- firstly and understandably as a person unable to innovate, and secondly as a people without intelligence. The Claredites themselves rejected this, seeing themselves as "noble" (the concept did not actually exist, but that is the closest analogy) warriors better then the self-deluding peoples around them.

It was this culture which would face the Ebrites...

*: About 3000 years before game start. YN is in Septim (gone into in different stories) "Before Cutoff"- an arbitrary date used for dating purposes.
**: An arbitrary name for the "crossing point" in the river at the centre of the map.

While nationalism as an ideology may not exist I do think it is possible for a cultural group to be hostile to those who do not share their own culture. I am sure if you look this has happened on earth many times before nationalism emerged on earth

Either way, it is a different world and as such it can develop a lot differently then earth did.

Still, there should be some cultural precedent for it in both cases- story material, maybe?

EDIT: Will put story here, if not about that.

The Culture of Intellectuals circa 1050 JW:
The Intellectual of the League of People was not like his counterparts in other cultures- indeed, whilst the apparent existence of rationality, constantly changing fashion and a spirit of not wanting to believe what anybody else does exist, as well as a strong internal culture (arguably too strong) and a willingness to accept ideas from other intellectuals over outsiders, little more of what is "intellectual" does.

Since what for the natives is time immemorial, intellectuals have formed into five somethings (in order, the words Tribe, Band, Organisation, Committiee, Kingdom, Tribe, Band, shanloss** State, Tribe, Band, Tribe Nation, Tribe, gwenwaith** Mini-Nation, Ebrite Representatives, gwenwaith** Band, Tribe, and Organisation have been tried, but all are found unsatisfactory by a large enough faction to have them changed). In practical terms, despite being seen by others as a unified whole they are five largely seperate (if very similar) cults who sees each other's members as traditional allies.

Children percieved to be intelligent are either found by the intellectuals or submitted to them (it is a high-status achievement to have an Intellectual in the biological family). They are then judged in theory by intellectuals themselves, in practice either by low-status ones or various high-prestige servants. The rejected candidates are sent away, and the accepted ones continue.

Members of the five yasulan*** are obliged to renounce their family (although the third and fifth sporadically go through stages where this is rejected in the name of "traditional values" or some new idea) in favour of the yasulan*** (although a different term is used formally), and choose a new name (though this matters little anyway- as intellectuals can freely change their names and are encouraged to, informal nicknames will exist).

They each study the cirriculum of an intellectual, which is mostly customised despite the attempts of some to impose a standardised one. External influences throughout their life will encourage them to rebel against this cirriculum's ideas, and being exposed to none other it is difficult for the mind who desires to be indoctrinated to find anything but general group loyalty to be indoctrinated into.

The adult intellectual can spend his life teaching students (which depending on the period may or may not be low status), developing his own philosophy, arguing with each other, or engaging in politics. Whilst in practice the fourth is restricted to a minority, an intellectual throughout his life is likely to engage in the other three to at least some extent.

The five yasulan*** are in contact regularly, each either sending one representative or many (the whole group is permissible and even common, but this counts under many). The systems formal and informal for how they do so are constantly changing, but what they then decide is their policy towards the King and if they will unanimously call upon the Palace Guard to do anything (it is very rare for this to actually happen, although once every 20 years or so it is almost certain to, but calling upon it to happen is a political cliche).

*: Septim dating system
**: Difficult-to-translate concept
***: Intellectual cults- the word is roughly translatable as something-or-others, the popular term for them. However, in English the phrase is awkward to say.

carmen510 said:

Oh, that map. Apologies then. I shall make it available later, once I address the other people upon the map.

@Lord Iggy: I know you start on the river, but it may help to tell me the approximate location as I really have no idea where that is.

@NWAG3: As responding to your inquiry, I'll change it. You should've seen the National Descriptions part before I changed it though.

Click to expand...

Here you go!

Kraznaya said:

lurker's comment: You're a sadist, Iggy.

Don't you think you have an advantage over everyone else by doing the map?

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Abaddon said:

I trust Iggy to roleplay fairly.

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Zhee-van-dar-dur-ard. I can do a pronunciation primer for the language, if you'd like.

And thanks for the vote of confidence. Don't worry Kraz, I don't metagame. I just want to create a good story.

[/QUOTE]

carmen510 said:

Abaddon: I already have a map wit the capital cities, but thanks for the effort anyways. It saves me the trouble of hosting and posting.

And you've totally annihilated the rivers and coasts.

@Iggy: Edit: Guess Not. I can figure it out.

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Ah, well, here's the map anyway. I'd like to be the orange shade in my map, or a dark shade of yellow.

carmen510 said:

Map problem:

How do you save a map at a certain zoom level? (200%)

Because whenever I save it and upload it, it reverts to 100% zoom level, and makes some nations impossible to see. In addition, I don't feel much like creating 50 million more colors that can be seen at 100%.

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You can also work through an intermediate, by zooming in, taking a screen shot, then saving it.

The Farow said:

He did say that the flat black cross is hard to see against the black borders. I would have to agree as in my NESes people kept putting cities on little islands which was a pain to get to work . We do need a better way of making our cities perhaps a dark grey color so you can distinguish it from black borders?

Click to expand...

jalapeno_dude used grey cities.

Matt0088 said:

Just some comparison to help prove my point. Also, the color that I have Viusenith as is what I want regardless of what you do for the map.

Click to expand...

Looks nice (I like Dzhibar's colour), but it is also good for NESing diversity to let mods develop their own map styles.

Matt's map looks the best.

An carmen use PRINT SCREEN when zoomed in, copy and paste..(remeber to zoom out as it will now look 400%!) then it will be enlarged without any loss.

Lord_Iggy said:

Looks nice (I like Dzhibar's colour), but it is also good for NESing diversity to let mods develop their own map styles.

Click to expand...

Of course, anything is Carmen's choice in the end. As for color, I just copied them over from carmen's map, so it should be the same for both Dzhibars in either map.

I am purple. End of.

Are these "stories" people are posting now getting them bonuses for Update 0?