LK152 - the weak Venezuela
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
No, the AI got to it first by several turns. I didn't think we had a chance.
ThERat
Deity
Pre-Turn
do some minor MM, nothing much to be done except for Santiago to get happy
wake up some workers to chop more jungle
IT Aztecs want some embargo against Zulu, not gonna happen anyway
La Plata deposes us
Turn 1 960AD
we take back La Plata, move the galleon in and load the army into the boat
found a filler city in the south
generally move the slower units north, some armies stay behind
Turn 2 970AD
we land our army on the Argentine island. There is also a galley floating about, luckily we just finished a frigate nearby. Bombard it this turn, we might have to sink it next turn
IT to add to the dog pile, America allies with Russia and declares war on Aztecs too
Now Parana deposes us
Turn 3 980AD
Take La Mantanza and get back Parana
We can now quickly turn around and get after Aztecs as long as they are dog piled
Move more units and armies north and attempt a careful steal and succeed. We take ToG and enter the industrial age. Sell magnetism to Indonesia for 62g + 101gpt
5 Civs have steam and nationalism, but only Aztecs have nationalism without steam. I don't really want to trade with them. We can get steam from America in a peace renegotiation. We have to throw in 460gpt. Turns out that we already have 3 sources of coal connected
Russia is up by another 3 techs all the way to electricity
Sell steam, to India for 70gpt, 103g and democracy, set min research to electricity, nobody has medicine yet
IT Starting to quell resistors in the south, we can shift an army around to do that.
Russia starts the US
Turn 4 990AD
Trade situation is more than awful, a few Civs have medicine now, but there is no trade opportunity for us as nobody has medicine but not steam or nationalism, Germany won't part with nationalism even for steam and mil tradition
Start to RR from inside the core, it will take a while. Armies are in position next turn to make a proper attack. Sell Australia WM for 10gpt 22g
IT Persia comes for peace renewal, this is bad but we got no choice, same for Russia
Turn 5 1000AD
Go for another careful steal and succeed to get nationalism from Aztecs.
We got no more cash though
Golden Age is over too and we will have to manage with less for a while
We declare war on Aztecs, attack and raze Tula and send a settler there
we gain 4 workers, move units to next city
communism has spread amongst the leading nations too, but again no chance for a 2fer or 3fer
IT we get the GA end message
Turn 6 1010AD
Found Caicara and start to attack Tlacopan, defeat 3 rifles and raze city too. We gain 6 workers, one cannon and a treb
IT Russia demands wines...I guess we better cave to the big bully
Turn 7 1020AD
attack Calix that is merely defended by muskets, raze the city after defeating 4 units
we gain 4 workers and a treb
IT oh dear, Russia starts Theory of Evolution
Turn 8 1030AD
RR all the way to the front, set up next attack
our 3-unit army made its way up to our capital and we ship it to the 2 tile Island of Cempoala, the army captures a worker upon landing
Turn 9 1040AD
Fascism has spread too.
Defeat 4 units and raze the Island city Cempoala. As there is an Aztec frigate nearby, I retreat our galleon for now til we come back with a settler
Raze Tzintzuntzen and the passage to north America is more or less unblocked
Turn 10 1050BC
Land a settler on the 2 tile Island so we can form a city and then move the army further up to the next somewhat bigger Island
tactically capture Tlateloco, found two city, RR so we can reach two more cities
Raze Atzca and capture the capital. There are 3 wonders inside
Rosario is currently starving but will be fine once we have the culture expansion. The army in the south is still moving from city to city to quell the remaining resistance. Don't forget to move it after resistance is eliminated.
There are a bunch of cats and stuff at the link of South and North America, they are sleeping there, do wake them up if needed or for quelling resistance
I have been rushing settlers to replace the Aztec cities, but we need more as progress is very fast. They pose no resistance whatsoever and their core will be gone for good soon. They have a lot of outlying cities though, hence a complete kill will take a long time.
We might want to regroup after this campaign and then go after Sioux, coupled with maybe tech steals. (we do have that expensive deal with American for another 10+ turns)
There are some minor deals possible to earn a bit more of gpt. I'll leave it to LK for those.
I assume the only way to get back into the tech game will be by stealing technologies from those nations we don't mind a war with.
America and Sioux come to mind as we will fight them soon anyway.
The situation:
do some minor MM, nothing much to be done except for Santiago to get happy
wake up some workers to chop more jungle
IT Aztecs want some embargo against Zulu, not gonna happen anyway
La Plata deposes us
Turn 1 960AD
we take back La Plata, move the galleon in and load the army into the boat
found a filler city in the south
generally move the slower units north, some armies stay behind
Turn 2 970AD
we land our army on the Argentine island. There is also a galley floating about, luckily we just finished a frigate nearby. Bombard it this turn, we might have to sink it next turn
IT to add to the dog pile, America allies with Russia and declares war on Aztecs too
Now Parana deposes us
Turn 3 980AD
Take La Mantanza and get back Parana
We can now quickly turn around and get after Aztecs as long as they are dog piled
Move more units and armies north and attempt a careful steal and succeed. We take ToG and enter the industrial age. Sell magnetism to Indonesia for 62g + 101gpt
5 Civs have steam and nationalism, but only Aztecs have nationalism without steam. I don't really want to trade with them. We can get steam from America in a peace renegotiation. We have to throw in 460gpt. Turns out that we already have 3 sources of coal connected
Russia is up by another 3 techs all the way to electricity
Sell steam, to India for 70gpt, 103g and democracy, set min research to electricity, nobody has medicine yet
IT Starting to quell resistors in the south, we can shift an army around to do that.
Russia starts the US
Turn 4 990AD
Trade situation is more than awful, a few Civs have medicine now, but there is no trade opportunity for us as nobody has medicine but not steam or nationalism, Germany won't part with nationalism even for steam and mil tradition
Start to RR from inside the core, it will take a while. Armies are in position next turn to make a proper attack. Sell Australia WM for 10gpt 22g
IT Persia comes for peace renewal, this is bad but we got no choice, same for Russia
Turn 5 1000AD
Go for another careful steal and succeed to get nationalism from Aztecs.
We got no more cash though
Golden Age is over too and we will have to manage with less for a while
We declare war on Aztecs, attack and raze Tula and send a settler there
we gain 4 workers, move units to next city
communism has spread amongst the leading nations too, but again no chance for a 2fer or 3fer
IT we get the GA end message
Turn 6 1010AD
Found Caicara and start to attack Tlacopan, defeat 3 rifles and raze city too. We gain 6 workers, one cannon and a treb
IT Russia demands wines...I guess we better cave to the big bully
Turn 7 1020AD
attack Calix that is merely defended by muskets, raze the city after defeating 4 units
we gain 4 workers and a treb
IT oh dear, Russia starts Theory of Evolution
Turn 8 1030AD
RR all the way to the front, set up next attack
our 3-unit army made its way up to our capital and we ship it to the 2 tile Island of Cempoala, the army captures a worker upon landing
Turn 9 1040AD
Fascism has spread too.
Defeat 4 units and raze the Island city Cempoala. As there is an Aztec frigate nearby, I retreat our galleon for now til we come back with a settler
Raze Tzintzuntzen and the passage to north America is more or less unblocked
Turn 10 1050BC
Land a settler on the 2 tile Island so we can form a city and then move the army further up to the next somewhat bigger Island
tactically capture Tlateloco, found two city, RR so we can reach two more cities
Raze Atzca and capture the capital. There are 3 wonders inside
Rosario is currently starving but will be fine once we have the culture expansion. The army in the south is still moving from city to city to quell the remaining resistance. Don't forget to move it after resistance is eliminated.
There are a bunch of cats and stuff at the link of South and North America, they are sleeping there, do wake them up if needed or for quelling resistance
I have been rushing settlers to replace the Aztec cities, but we need more as progress is very fast. They pose no resistance whatsoever and their core will be gone for good soon. They have a lot of outlying cities though, hence a complete kill will take a long time.
We might want to regroup after this campaign and then go after Sioux, coupled with maybe tech steals. (we do have that expensive deal with American for another 10+ turns)
There are some minor deals possible to earn a bit more of gpt. I'll leave it to LK for those.
I assume the only way to get back into the tech game will be by stealing technologies from those nations we don't mind a war with.
America and Sioux come to mind as we will fight them soon anyway.
The situation:
ThERat
Deity
The Island situation:
We have a settler underneath the army. We can found a city there, ship in the galleon, which can then transport the army to Teayo a turn later. I would replace Teayo with a city that grabs both fish and whale.
As for the war with Aztecs, simply continue even if we have eliminated those core cities and then go after Sioux right away. Hopefully we have enough cash for a steal attempt before going for war with Sioux.
We have a settler underneath the army. We can found a city there, ship in the galleon, which can then transport the army to Teayo a turn later. I would replace Teayo with a city that grabs both fish and whale.
As for the war with Aztecs, simply continue even if we have eliminated those core cities and then go after Sioux right away. Hopefully we have enough cash for a steal attempt before going for war with Sioux.
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
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A tremendous start against the Aztecs. 
It's striking that we're going to be beaten to ToE by so much, in a game that overall is going well. It'll take the later game out of the routine pattern, anyway.
It's striking that we're going to be beaten to ToE by so much, in a game that overall is going well. It'll take the later game out of the routine pattern, anyway.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
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I knew the Russians were a monster, but I didn't realize they were that big.
Tech steals are going to be tough. We got very lucky with the limited cash we have.
However, with the comment about rushed settlers, rails already (need more workers ASAP), etc, I'm going to find it very hard to keep cash around.
ROSTER:
LKendter (up)
Elephantium (on deck)
Northern Pike
Greebley
ThERat
Tech steals are going to be tough. We got very lucky with the limited cash we have.
However, with the comment about rushed settlers, rails already (need more workers ASAP), etc, I'm going to find it very hard to keep cash around.
ROSTER:
LKendter (up)
Elephantium (on deck)
Northern Pike
Greebley
ThERat
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
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With some railing, we can set up One Banana as a one-turn, size 6 --> 7 worker pump to fuel merges, and I think we should do it. The new size-one towns we have in the former Aztec lands are potential commerce assets, but for the moment they're liabilities that push developed cities down the corruption ladder, and natural growth won't solve that problem quickly enough. Or you gentlemen can just use the new workers for railing and jungle burns, and I'll take care of the merging on my round. 
I agree with the general principle here; but of the four size-twelve-no-growth cities I left you, three would indeed have lost time on their builds if they'd been set for any food surplus, which delay I think is particularly undesirable during our GA. No policy of turning off growth was involved.
I agree with the general principle here; but of the four size-twelve-no-growth cities I left you, three would indeed have lost time on their builds if they'd been set for any food surplus, which delay I think is particularly undesirable during our GA. No policy of turning off growth was involved.
ThERat
Deity
I made use of the pop 12 cities to peel of workers if they hit the growth limit. We are well below unit limit and hence, can churn out more workers. I agree with the merger to let those cities grow. We got plenty units to RR.
Elephantium
Malcolm was a very good cat.
I could play a bit tomorrow, but beyond that I won't have much open until Sunday.
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
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My Internet connection is completely out now, and I don't know when it'll be fixed. So please give me twenty-four hours to respond after Tusker posts, then swap/skip me until I check in again.
- Joined
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- Messages
- 19,617
1050 AD (0)
22 turns for electric at 100%. We aren't ready for self-research yet.
This is one headache of the Aztec war starting so fast. We didn't shut down Argentina resistors first. I need to scrounge up some junk to break the resistance.
NP talked about worker merges, but it won't happen early on my set. Right now I am way more concerned about connecting our rail thin-net up. I'm not sure how long that will take.
A junk landing in our rear would be a headache that is best shut down with rails. What I don't see is enough sources to get more workers.
I ship Germany a spare saltpeter for $25/T. I don't mind helping anyone near the Russian monster.
(IT) I as suspected, we lost the exposed elite cavalry. (0-1) No other attacks occurred.
Blast - Smith's is completed on the other continent by Persia.
1060 AD (1)
Some island city is founded.
Our cavalry is revenged (1-1).
I give the Sioux $100 to get a much better WM. I didn't expect to make a profit from it. I got over 100 in raw cash, plus a lot of small GPT sales.
1070 AD (2)
I begin the assault on Texcoco. The army is enough to kill 3 rifles. (4-1)
We picked up 2 workers, and 2 bombard units.
(IT) Persia and Russia sign an MPP.
We lost our supply of dyes. It is time to find a new luxury source.
1080 AD (3)
I send rails to China to get dyes. Free Artistry, WM, $22/T and $17 come as a bonus.
The assault on Teot is a total cluster, as our knight army lost the second attack despite 10 HP left. (5-2)
We lost two Llanero also to kill the 4 rifles to capture it. (9-4)
I assault Teayo killing 3 rifles and a musket. The town survives with a warrior visible. I hope nothing new gets built, as the army can't assault another rifle with its current health.
Sugar High is founded.
Our 100% health knight army redlines attacking Tlax just to kill 1 rifle. (10-4)
Indonesia finally has some cash. I ship rails for $95/T, $20 and WM.
[end of session 1]
(IT) France and Russia ally vs. the Aztecs.
Texcoco deposes us killing a couple of junk units.
I hope the Sioux aren't about to do something stupid. Two stray cavarly jumped behind our borders.
1090 AD (4)
I didn't realize our mace army had a Llanero in it.
No Stinking Flips Llanero arrives recovering Texcoco. 3 rifles died there. (13-4)
Tlaxcala is razed killing 4 rifles and a longbow. We gained 4 workers and a bucket. (18-4)
It was so culture choked by USA it wasn't worth keeping. The workers need more than one turn leaving American territory.
Teayo only got a drafted rifle, so our damage army pushes it luck. We kill that rifle and warrior. (20-4).
Island city are the biggest pain with flips, and the location misses the whales. We raze it.
If it tastes like fish is founded.
I've gotten down to the bottom of South America, so limited worker merges will begin. IMO we are still pitifully short of workers, so I don't want to push it to much. I still need to get former Brazil on the rail net.
3 native workers are shipped to some island city. This has almost no corruption. Panama gets one.
Belo Horizente really needs them at size 6 with harbor, and water tiles to work. This city is also not on the rail net, and needs work for size 12. It sums up the worker merge catch-22 perfectly.
It must have been ages since France got a map update as we get $90 and $3/T.
(IT) Those Sioux cavalry leave. It must have been related to the Aztec flip.
We get booted by America, which is fine by me.
Russia completes the Theory of Evolution.
22 turns for electric at 100%. We aren't ready for self-research yet.
This is one headache of the Aztec war starting so fast. We didn't shut down Argentina resistors first. I need to scrounge up some junk to break the resistance.
NP talked about worker merges, but it won't happen early on my set. Right now I am way more concerned about connecting our rail thin-net up. I'm not sure how long that will take.
A junk landing in our rear would be a headache that is best shut down with rails. What I don't see is enough sources to get more workers.
I ship Germany a spare saltpeter for $25/T. I don't mind helping anyone near the Russian monster.
(IT) I as suspected, we lost the exposed elite cavalry. (0-1) No other attacks occurred.
Blast - Smith's is completed on the other continent by Persia.
1060 AD (1)
Some island city is founded.
Our cavalry is revenged (1-1).
I give the Sioux $100 to get a much better WM. I didn't expect to make a profit from it. I got over 100 in raw cash, plus a lot of small GPT sales.
1070 AD (2)
I begin the assault on Texcoco. The army is enough to kill 3 rifles. (4-1)
We picked up 2 workers, and 2 bombard units.
(IT) Persia and Russia sign an MPP.
We lost our supply of dyes. It is time to find a new luxury source.
1080 AD (3)
I send rails to China to get dyes. Free Artistry, WM, $22/T and $17 come as a bonus.
The assault on Teot is a total cluster, as our knight army lost the second attack despite 10 HP left. (5-2)
We lost two Llanero also to kill the 4 rifles to capture it. (9-4)
I assault Teayo killing 3 rifles and a musket. The town survives with a warrior visible. I hope nothing new gets built, as the army can't assault another rifle with its current health.
Sugar High is founded.
Our 100% health knight army redlines attacking Tlax just to kill 1 rifle. (10-4)
Indonesia finally has some cash. I ship rails for $95/T, $20 and WM.
[end of session 1]
(IT) France and Russia ally vs. the Aztecs.
Texcoco deposes us killing a couple of junk units.
I hope the Sioux aren't about to do something stupid. Two stray cavarly jumped behind our borders.
1090 AD (4)
I didn't realize our mace army had a Llanero in it.
No Stinking Flips Llanero arrives recovering Texcoco. 3 rifles died there. (13-4)
Tlaxcala is razed killing 4 rifles and a longbow. We gained 4 workers and a bucket. (18-4)
It was so culture choked by USA it wasn't worth keeping. The workers need more than one turn leaving American territory.
Teayo only got a drafted rifle, so our damage army pushes it luck. We kill that rifle and warrior. (20-4).
Island city are the biggest pain with flips, and the location misses the whales. We raze it.
If it tastes like fish is founded.
I've gotten down to the bottom of South America, so limited worker merges will begin. IMO we are still pitifully short of workers, so I don't want to push it to much. I still need to get former Brazil on the rail net.
3 native workers are shipped to some island city. This has almost no corruption. Panama gets one.
Belo Horizente really needs them at size 6 with harbor, and water tiles to work. This city is also not on the rail net, and needs work for size 12. It sums up the worker merge catch-22 perfectly.
It must have been ages since France got a map update as we get $90 and $3/T.
(IT) Those Sioux cavalry leave. It must have been related to the Aztec flip.
We get booted by America, which is fine by me.
Russia completes the Theory of Evolution.
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1100 AD (5)
Russia is insulted, not "never take deal" trying to get factories. Persia would sell us medicine for $333/T, furs, wins, $1670. With no two-fer, I have no interest. However, it looks like our rep is back.
The big challenge I'm finding with worker merging is cities lack developed tiles to work.
[end of session 2]
(IT) The stupid embargoes arrive as the Zulu and Aztecs sign one against us.
Add Universal Suffrage to the list of Russian wonders.
We get a free embassy from the Sioux.
1110 AD (6)
The Aztecs are getting beat by the AI. There remnants in Greenland are falling, and they are down to just 3 cities. I can't wait until there are gone, and flip risk disappears.
1120 AD (7)
(IT) The Aztecs land a stray longbow behind our lines.
I watch a ton of AI units cross our border, I think in reaction to the longbow.
1130 AD (8)
The 1 HP longbow is gone, but no luck from our elite musket. (21-4)
The Aztecs are down to just 2 cities, and I hope will be dead in a couple more turns.
[end of session 3]
(IT) Now Mongolia and Russia ally vs. the Aztecs. As if they don't have enough problems.
Two Aztecs knights land Salvador. This causes even more AI troops to cross our borders.
1140 AD (9)
2 elite muskets wipe out those knights, but no leaders. (23-4)
(IT) I watch all those AI troops reverse direction.
We just lost 3 luxury sources.
1150 AD (10)
The Aztecs are now down to 1 city.
Australia gets nationalism for gems, ivory, $18/T, $20 and WM. I think we can survive without the 3 luxury.
[end of session 4]
Summary:
I held off attacking the next target as the Aztec city count was dropping so fast. They are now down to just there capitol. I’m hoping no house boat, and they leave the game. It will be much easier attack the Sioux or America without having 2 border towns in flip risk mode.
I think I got all cities railed, and we can now work on improving cities such as getting our army city building them faster.
ROSTER:
LKendter
Elephantium (up)
Northern Pike (on deck)
Greebley
ThERat
Russia is insulted, not "never take deal" trying to get factories. Persia would sell us medicine for $333/T, furs, wins, $1670. With no two-fer, I have no interest. However, it looks like our rep is back.
The big challenge I'm finding with worker merging is cities lack developed tiles to work.
[end of session 2]
(IT) The stupid embargoes arrive as the Zulu and Aztecs sign one against us.
Add Universal Suffrage to the list of Russian wonders.
We get a free embassy from the Sioux.
1110 AD (6)
The Aztecs are getting beat by the AI. There remnants in Greenland are falling, and they are down to just 3 cities. I can't wait until there are gone, and flip risk disappears.
1120 AD (7)
(IT) The Aztecs land a stray longbow behind our lines.
I watch a ton of AI units cross our border, I think in reaction to the longbow.
1130 AD (8)
The 1 HP longbow is gone, but no luck from our elite musket. (21-4)
The Aztecs are down to just 2 cities, and I hope will be dead in a couple more turns.
[end of session 3]
(IT) Now Mongolia and Russia ally vs. the Aztecs. As if they don't have enough problems.
Two Aztecs knights land Salvador. This causes even more AI troops to cross our borders.
1140 AD (9)
2 elite muskets wipe out those knights, but no leaders. (23-4)
(IT) I watch all those AI troops reverse direction.
We just lost 3 luxury sources.
1150 AD (10)
The Aztecs are now down to 1 city.
Australia gets nationalism for gems, ivory, $18/T, $20 and WM. I think we can survive without the 3 luxury.
[end of session 4]
Summary:
I held off attacking the next target as the Aztec city count was dropping so fast. They are now down to just there capitol. I’m hoping no house boat, and they leave the game. It will be much easier attack the Sioux or America without having 2 border towns in flip risk mode.
I think I got all cities railed, and we can now work on improving cities such as getting our army city building them faster.
ROSTER:
LKendter
Elephantium (up)
Northern Pike (on deck)
Greebley
ThERat
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
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Nice progress. 
In three turns our obligation to send America 460 gpt as part of a peace renegotiation will expire. As I understand it (but corrections are welcome), we'll then face a tricky decision between letting the peace continue, meaning we'll be paying 460 gpt for nothing, or renewing it, keeping us from attacking the US for another twenty turns when that's obviously far too long. So perhaps we should simplify matters by going to war with America in three turns, and leaving the Sioux for later. It seems that America is stronger than the Sioux, but with eight armies we should be able to absorb their attacks and then start moving forward.
If we decide to attack America in three turns, we should try to block their units in our territory now so they'll still be vulnerable then.
With some railing we can develop One Banana to where it's sustainably producing workers in one turn, not two. This should be a high priority.
In three turns our obligation to send America 460 gpt as part of a peace renegotiation will expire. As I understand it (but corrections are welcome), we'll then face a tricky decision between letting the peace continue, meaning we'll be paying 460 gpt for nothing, or renewing it, keeping us from attacking the US for another twenty turns when that's obviously far too long. So perhaps we should simplify matters by going to war with America in three turns, and leaving the Sioux for later. It seems that America is stronger than the Sioux, but with eight armies we should be able to absorb their attacks and then start moving forward.
If we decide to attack America in three turns, we should try to block their units in our territory now so they'll still be vulnerable then.
With some railing we can develop One Banana to where it's sustainably producing workers in one turn, not two. This should be a high priority.
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My big hope is a couple more turns will kill the Aztecs, and let us get that front line city flip risk free.
I agree 1 turns workers would be nice, but even those nuisance landings would have been a real headache without the rail net connecting all cities.
I starting working on getting the army city production higher at the end of my set. A few turns saved could be the difference of a few more armies before game end. That IMO is also a high priority target.
IIRC the AI will automatically renegotiate peace, but I'm not 100% sure.
I agree 1 turns workers would be nice, but even those nuisance landings would have been a real headache without the rail net connecting all cities.
I starting working on getting the army city production higher at the end of my set. A few turns saved could be the difference of a few more armies before game end. That IMO is also a high priority target.
IIRC the AI will automatically renegotiate peace, but I'm not 100% sure.
Elephantium
Malcolm was a very good cat.
Yes, I have the save. I'm two turns in.
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I just realized I forgot to mention in my summary that cash is pretty much where the turn started as I was rushing workers like crazy out of the no productivity cities of former Argentina. IMO tax / science farms need railed, irrigated grassland to be effective, and we don't have the worker force to pull that off.
I think we can change the 460 gpt for straight up 20 turn peace. There is no penalty for breaking that peace by the game and since it is exactly same as the non-expiring peace with everyone else, I feel we should be free to break it. It is just a technicality from having to negotiate for peace to get back our cash. I know opinions differ on when it is ok to break 20 turn peace, but this 'extra 20 turns after renegotiation' is the one I feel should not be binding.
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