AND SVN Build Thread

618 I believe (haven't bothered to upgrade to 619 yet).

I play with a mate via lan or direct ip (both experience it). I play with a ton of options on
(probably to my detriment) including revolutions (I LOVE revolutions :)).

This mod is the best by far! And runs smooth as a babys bum until after 1100 ad where I'm going oos every 10-15 turns. Looking into it it appears to be as I'm trading with an AI, meeting them, or just after a turn has finished (i.e. as your civ becomes usable after the ai has moved).

Hope that helps! I know there's not much hope for stability when I'm using revolutions amongst other things, but after this mod I just can't go back to Vanilla BTS!

Keep up the good work guys :)

I don't know, I've played with my wife all the way to the last turn; sure, we had a few OOS, but it was never unrecoverable. Usually when we get OOS I save the game, we both quit to desktop, I restart Civ4, she does the same, I load the save, she joins in and then I launch the game. It has always worked until now. It happened a couple of times in the past that we got another OOS a few turns later, but following that procedure again it never caused the OOS to come out so frequently. Let me know if you're able to play on following these instruction and the problem is solved or if you just can't do it. Thank you.
 
Rev620 is out

  • - Mech assembly plant has now advisor_military
  • - Naval academy now requires a bigger body of water
  • - Fixed AI city razing bug (when cultural victory disabled) (imported from C2C rev2516), source updated and dll compiled
  • - Fixed Storm Event typo
  • - Man'o War now requires Naval Tactics
  • - Ship of the line now requires Grand War
  • - National Wonders Aluminum Factory, Biofuel Refinery, Brewery, Cement Mill, Chemical Plant, Fertilizer Plant, Nanite Lab, Rubber Factory and Rubber Plant now produce 3 resources each (but you can build 3 of each of these national wonders)

If no other bugs are found and fixed within the week this revision or the next one could be AND2.1 final. From here, we'll start making deeper changes, especially with the new tech tree that Vokarya is working on. :)
 
Some comments and observations on the latest builds, this is with 611 - 616 I think are the versions these are taken from.

1. A few times on reloading a game I've had the game "forget" my latest road technologies on city tiles. Meaning for example I can build Railroads in my empire and indeed have workers doing so but when you look at the actual city tiles, they have the last possible technology in them - so in this example they have paved roads instead of railroads. Seen this also with Electric Railroads available -> only regular ones in city tiles. Kind of an odd glitch, not a major thing really but slightly annoying having to have workers spend time working over city tiles to fill out your transportation network.

2. The Calender technology offers 2 Golden Age lengthening wonders, the Mausoleum of Maussolloss at +50% GA length and Cheomseongdae at +20% GA length and since they both add up and stack you get +70% for your GA lengths if you happen to build both of them. I was aware of this fact before as I saw it in the tree but I never tried to go for them. However in my last game I was using an Industrious leader and went on a bit of a wonder building frenzy and figured I'd try it out. I got both of these wonders built and holy F***, talk about overpowered. I mean it was insanely good, 1 GP for a GA of 54 turns!!?!??! (Marathon speed) HAHAHA, I WIN YOU LOSE. Ahem, yeah it's rather good. Couple this with event based and building triggered GAs and I had one rolling for 200+ turns, all the while generating more GPs to trigger more later GAs. So the point, shouldn't these be spread out on to seperate techs so as to not allow for this so easily? Seperately or perhaps additionally, make it so MoM is +40% and Che is +30% or something similar so one wonder isn't obviously a better choice. I know, I know - don't build them or try for this strategy but it really seems just too good to leave as is.

3. Is there anything that can be done about the weirdness with river corners and bonuses? By that I mean how certain tile improvments grant commerce and other bonuses from river corners (the diagonal tiles that touch) yet others do not. Farms and mines do, Lumbermills and Jungle Camps do not and so on. To be sure, this is something that was and is a vanilla issue still present in this mod, it just always struck me as an odd bug / oversight / design decision - any thoughts on changing this? If it nothing can be done that's cool, just a rather odd thing that I always seem to notice and have to be aware of when working on my tile improvement decisions.

4. 2 more event errors I've seen show up, seems like they may be similar to other ones I pointed out before that were noted and I think fixed at some point:
- Denizens in <your empire> are demanding better living conditions from their government
- Geothermal energy has been found undereath <your empire>

For both of these, there's just a notification in the event log and on the scrolling log on EoT, no pop up or other indication of what has happened and if you can have any effect on the event is given, it just shows up and that's it.

5. I love the modern settler units and how they found cities that come with built-in "standard" buildings. One small tweak I'd like to see is the Pioneer (or perhaps another later more advanced settler unit?) build modern granaries rather than standard ones. I've noticed when building these Industrial era and later cites (after razing all the stupid placement AI cities, another issue altogether) is that one of the first things I end up building is the MG to replace the standard one for quick city growth, having this built in at some point in the unit tree would be a nice little tweak I think.

6. One additional point sort of related to #5 above, perhaps there could be a slightly earlier "new settler" unit with these types of pre-built infrastructure, as I find I'm building a lot of the same buildings in new cities in the Classical / Medieval / Renissance Eras. Just a thought, not a major issue if no one else wants this.

7. There appears to be a serious finance / money bug when it comes to founding new cities. I've also noticed it at times when taking other Civs cities I'm at war with and they become active as mine. What happens is that your income and positive cash flow takes a major nosedive and you end up in serious financial trouble if you don't do something about it. This is not the normal "you have a new city, you must pay for it" type of thing, I'm talking changes where plus thousands of gold per turn suddenly becoming minus thousands of gold per turn in a modern era game such as in the Industrial era. A recalc like can be done at game load (CTRL + SHIFT + T) will immediately fix the problem so there appears to be a rather serious calculation error somewhere related to gaining control over a new city. Perhaps somewhere in the "number of cities" economic and maintenance calculations as I've noticed some very strange numbers on the F2 advisor screen when this type of thing has happened, usually in the middle and later eras when I have a good number of cites on the bigger maps, 30 and up.

8. Hate to keep harping on this but in my latest game I still cannot found colonies. No one else is having this issue? I'd really love to know what I'm doing wrong as for me this is a key part of how I decide when and where (and if) to attack AIs in the later eras and not being able to do it is rather annoying to say the least. Alt-F1 is the shortcut I know from base BtS and it works to bring up the dialogue box where it says you can form a colony but I can never select any of the cites I want to actually do it, the list is either blank or is filled with non-related cities (such as newly captured cities with strong enemy culture present far away from where the intended colony location is). There used to be a clickable button on the F1 advisor screen in the base game but that appears to be gone in this mod with the modified displays that F1 brings up now. Is there some other way to do this in this mod that everyone knows about and I'm just being dense and missing the obvious solution? Any help on this would be welcome.

9. Is there a reason the display graphic for GPs of the same type that are settled into cities as super specialists do not stack once the information border for that pane in the city screen is reached and no pop up information overlay appears that lists which GPs are settled? This used to be a feature in the base game, but with this mod I've found they just show up individually one after another in a huge line that runs into the main center screen tile display area which not only looks bad but can interfere with clicking on workable tiles if you've got a city with advanced culture that is into its 3rd ring of workable tiles.

10. Just an update on my experiences with Sea Tunnels if anyone cares or is curious about these. I love the idea of these so I've used them a lot in many of my games and it appears they work a bit better than I originally thought. My own spreader units and workers that are set on Auto (which I tend to do for a percentage of my workforce in the latter eras if only to save my sanity on larger maps) still ignore them but the AI does appear to be much more aware of them than I previously thought. I've had AI units I have OB with use them to send recon units to what are to them unknown continents and in a war situation I've seen the usual wandering single sea units the AI always has for no real good reason pillage the tunnels when they came across an undefended location with them (which I'm not sure they should be able to logically if not gamewise - aren't these tunnels underground and hence inaccessible to surface ships? depth charges or something similar I guess?). Wish my own troops would understand them without handholding from me but these appear to work better than I originally thought.

11. I think there needs to be some reductions / tweaks to anarchy times when switching civics, as the AI either can't handle it (Rev) or can handle it but cripples themselves in other ways such as limited military production and research. I as the human player understand the anarchy mechanic, how best to avoid it and the best times when you have to endure it for the greater good and the long view and also when it's a bad time to switch and not to do it. The AI at a basic level mostly does not, switching civics too often and sub-optimally and enduring many many turns of anarchy at bad times in the world due to wars or opportunities missed such as being the first to discover a key technology or to finish constructing a wonder. I know it's difficult to get the AI to understand this, so as a crutch maybe the times could be lowered or have the AI given bonuses only for them to somehow to combat this issue if that is at all possible.

It seems to me that this has a lot to do with how the human player can just start to really dominate once you get into the middle and later eras where there are many civic options opening up due to all the additional empire management technologies and options added by this mod so there are many more chances for the AI to be dumb and think "oh now is a good time to switch" seemingly on a whim and then suffering many turns of lost output due to the high turn costs for civic changes. I saw an AI in one game lose over 20 turns to anarchy bookended around a minor little war due to ill-timed civics changes and a religion shift and it turned the entire game for that AI empire from a modest middle-of-the-pack position into a losing one that eventually had them vassalized after they couldn't keep up with neighboring AIs and myself.

12. Is there something special I need to do to load a previous SVN based saved game on newer ones? I never tried it before but I just updated to v620 and figured I'd try out the new fixes and changes since the last time I updated with an older save and it claims I have to load the older version of the mod (I believe it was v611 for that game). I thought old saves would work on new versions? Or am I doing something wrong here as I've never tried to do it. No big deal really if it can't be done and I have to start a new game, just was curious to quickly see some of the new changes and figured I'd load up an older game that was fairly advanced (in the Modern era as I recall) to see how they worked.

That's all I can think of for now, comments welcome on anything above.
 
Some comments and observations on the latest builds, this is with 611 - 616 I think are the versions these are taken from.

1. A few times on reloading a game I've had the game "forget" my latest road technologies on city tiles. Meaning for example I can build Railroads in my empire and indeed have workers doing so but when you look at the actual city tiles, they have the last possible technology in them - so in this example they have paved roads instead of railroads. Seen this also with Electric Railroads available -> only regular ones in city tiles. Kind of an odd glitch, not a major thing really but slightly annoying having to have workers spend time working over city tiles to fill out your transportation network.

I think this is something buried somewhere in the dll, I'll have a look but it might take a while to find the cause of the problem.

2. The Calender technology offers 2 Golden Age lengthening wonders, the Mausoleum of Maussolloss at +50% GA length and Cheomseongdae at +20% GA length and since they both add up and stack you get +70% for your GA lengths if you happen to build both of them. I was aware of this fact before as I saw it in the tree but I never tried to go for them. However in my last game I was using an Industrious leader and went on a bit of a wonder building frenzy and figured I'd try it out. I got both of these wonders built and holy F***, talk about overpowered. I mean it was insanely good, 1 GP for a GA of 54 turns!!?!??! (Marathon speed) HAHAHA, I WIN YOU LOSE. Ahem, yeah it's rather good. Couple this with event based and building triggered GAs and I had one rolling for 200+ turns, all the while generating more GPs to trigger more later GAs. So the point, shouldn't these be spread out on to seperate techs so as to not allow for this so easily? Seperately or perhaps additionally, make it so MoM is +40% and Che is +30% or something similar so one wonder isn't obviously a better choice. I know, I know - don't build them or try for this strategy but it really seems just too good to leave as is.

You're perfectly right. We'll have to separate those WW, I've never built both of them I think so I've never noticed. We'll probably separate them in the new upcoming tech tree.

3. Is there anything that can be done about the weirdness with river corners and bonuses? By that I mean how certain tile improvments grant commerce and other bonuses from river corners (the diagonal tiles that touch) yet others do not. Farms and mines do, Lumbermills and Jungle Camps do not and so on. To be sure, this is something that was and is a vanilla issue still present in this mod, it just always struck me as an odd bug / oversight / design decision - any thoughts on changing this? If it nothing can be done that's cool, just a rather odd thing that I always seem to notice and have to be aware of when working on my tile improvement decisions.

Mmmm... this is also something that's probably buried somewhere in the dll; I'll have a look.

4. 2 more event errors I've seen show up, seems like they may be similar to other ones I pointed out before that were noted and I think fixed at some point:
- Denizens in <your empire> are demanding better living conditions from their government
- Geothermal energy has been found undereath <your empire>

For both of these, there's just a notification in the event log and on the scrolling log on EoT, no pop up or other indication of what has happened and if you can have any effect on the event is given, it just shows up and that's it.

Thank you for pointing them out, I probably forgot to change the code for some events as there are more events files IIRC; I probably haven't checked them all.

5. I love the modern settler units and how they found cities that come with built-in "standard" buildings. One small tweak I'd like to see is the Pioneer (or perhaps another later more advanced settler unit?) build modern granaries rather than standard ones. I've noticed when building these Industrial era and later cites (after razing all the stupid placement AI cities, another issue altogether) is that one of the first things I end up building is the MG to replace the standard one for quick city growth, having this built in at some point in the unit tree would be a nice little tweak I think.

6. One additional point sort of related to #5 above, perhaps there could be a slightly earlier "new settler" unit with these types of pre-built infrastructure, as I find I'm building a lot of the same buildings in new cities in the Classical / Medieval / Renissance Eras. Just a thought, not a major issue if no one else wants this.

I've also always thought about a more recent settler unit but I've always procrastinated. Maybe it's time to add it to the mod.

7. There appears to be a serious finance / money bug when it comes to founding new cities. I've also noticed it at times when taking other Civs cities I'm at war with and they become active as mine. What happens is that your income and positive cash flow takes a major nosedive and you end up in serious financial trouble if you don't do something about it. This is not the normal "you have a new city, you must pay for it" type of thing, I'm talking changes where plus thousands of gold per turn suddenly becoming minus thousands of gold per turn in a modern era game such as in the Industrial era. A recalc like can be done at game load (CTRL + SHIFT + T) will immediately fix the problem so there appears to be a rather serious calculation error somewhere related to gaining control over a new city. Perhaps somewhere in the "number of cities" economic and maintenance calculations as I've noticed some very strange numbers on the F2 advisor screen when this type of thing has happened, usually in the middle and later eras when I have a good number of cites on the bigger maps, 30 and up.


I've seen this myself sometimes but not always, so I frankly don't know what's causing it and I've never worried about it as it wasn't happening always. I'll try with Ctrl+Shift+T to see what happens as this could be a hint to where to look.

8. Hate to keep harping on this but in my latest game I still cannot found colonies. No one else is having this issue? I'd really love to know what I'm doing wrong as for me this is a key part of how I decide when and where (and if) to attack AIs in the later eras and not being able to do it is rather annoying to say the least. Alt-F1 is the shortcut I know from base BtS and it works to bring up the dialogue box where it says you can form a colony but I can never select any of the cites I want to actually do it, the list is either blank or is filled with non-related cities (such as newly captured cities with strong enemy culture present far away from where the intended colony location is). There used to be a clickable button on the F1 advisor screen in the base game but that appears to be gone in this mod with the modified displays that F1 brings up now. Is there some other way to do this in this mod that everyone knows about and I'm just being dense and missing the obvious solution? Any help on this would be welcome.

The button you're talking about is always there when you can settle colonies and it's not there if you can't. Could you upload one of your saves so that I can check this thing about colonies? I really don't have problems with colonies and I haven't seen anyone else complaining about this problem. :(


9. Is there a reason the display graphic for GPs of the same type that are settled into cities as super specialists do not stack once the information border for that pane in the city screen is reached and no pop up information overlay appears that lists which GPs are settled? This used to be a feature in the base game, but with this mod I've found they just show up individually one after another in a huge line that runs into the main center screen tile display area which not only looks bad but can interfere with clicking on workable tiles if you've got a city with advanced culture that is into its 3rd ring of workable tiles.

I don't remember right now, I'll check when I have time

11. I think there needs to be some reductions / tweaks to anarchy times when switching civics, as the AI either can't handle it (Rev) or can handle it but cripples themselves in other ways such as limited military production and research. I as the human player understand the anarchy mechanic, how best to avoid it and the best times when you have to endure it for the greater good and the long view and also when it's a bad time to switch and not to do it. The AI at a basic level mostly does not, switching civics too often and sub-optimally and enduring many many turns of anarchy at bad times in the world due to wars or opportunities missed such as being the first to discover a key technology or to finish constructing a wonder. I know it's difficult to get the AI to understand this, so as a crutch maybe the times could be lowered or have the AI given bonuses only for them to somehow to combat this issue if that is at all possible.

It seems to me that this has a lot to do with how the human player can just start to really dominate once you get into the middle and later eras where there are many civic options opening up due to all the additional empire management technologies and options added by this mod so there are many more chances for the AI to be dumb and think "oh now is a good time to switch" seemingly on a whim and then suffering many turns of lost output due to the high turn costs for civic changes. I saw an AI in one game lose over 20 turns to anarchy bookended around a minor little war due to ill-timed civics changes and a religion shift and it turned the entire game for that AI empire from a modest middle-of-the-pack position into a losing one that eventually had them vassalized after they couldn't keep up with neighboring AIs and myself.

I know, Anarchy lenght, revolution and AI behaviour are one of the major things to fix in this mod; I'm still trying to find ways to handle this problem.

12. Is there something special I need to do to load a previous SVN based saved game on newer ones? I never tried it before but I just updated to v620 and figured I'd try out the new fixes and changes since the last time I updated with an older save and it claims I have to load the older version of the mod (I believe it was v611 for that game). I thought old saves would work on new versions? Or am I doing something wrong here as I've never tried to do it. No big deal really if it can't be done and I have to start a new game, just was curious to quickly see some of the new changes and figured I'd load up an older game that was fairly advanced (in the Modern era as I recall) to see how they worked.

Rev619 introduced some changes to Orchards which make the game incompatible with previous versions. Odd and sad, I know, but I've found no other way to make them compatible for the moment.
 
11. That was part of the Civic changes I was proposing. I agree they are too long, especially early game.

JosEPh
 
11. That was part of the Civic changes I was proposing. I agree they are too long, especially early game.

JosEPh

Ok, as I said in another thread, I'll try your changes :)
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;12282283 said:
Ok, as I said in another thread, I'll try your changes :)

I do think civic change times should be addressed before 2.0 ships the final version. It wrecks havoc with the AI.
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;12281189 said:
The button you're talking about is always there when you can settle colonies and it's not there if you can't. Could you upload one of your saves so that I can check this thing about colonies? I really don't have problems with colonies and I haven't seen anyone else complaining about this problem. :(

View attachment No_Colony_AD-1555.7z

Here's a savegame from r611 where this occurs. I'm trying to make the rather large island to the northeast of my main continent into a colony. When I try to do so, the pop up window in the upper left of the screen is what I see:

Civ4ScreenShot0014.JPG

Side notes, once you've loaded this save if you open up the city screens for either Nongoma or Arpinum you can see the start of the problem I mention in #9. I've seen it get far worse than that too. Also run a single turn and Justinian will (probably) shift 3 civics yet he will have no issues as he's spiritual - no anarchy of course. Note that he was a barb turned minor turned small civ turned moderate power over the course of the game to this point. Point #11 in a nutshell really.

Thanks for looking into this and for your other responses on my earlier comments. Hopefully you can point out what I'm doing wrong or if I'm having some weird issue here no one else has.
 
I can't load it, it says it neededs SVN 611/

At a guess, from the screen shot, maybe linking the island with a sea tunnel, has made it part of your continent, and as such, it won't liberate them, when it should create 1 vassal per land mass regardless.
 
@urtho

Great post overall - This is the kind of feedback from "new perspective" players that is needed :goodjob:

2. The Calender technology offers 2 Golden Age lengthening wonders, the Mausoleum of Maussolloss at +50% GA length and Cheomseongdae at +20% GA length and since they both add up and stack you get +70% for your GA lengths if you happen to build both of them.
Interesting, I never thought of actually separating them; I always make it a point to build both in every game; I usually research military training and seige warfare while building Cheomseongdae and I use the tech granted by the latter to slingshot Machinery. I tend to build Maussoleum with a great engineer on standby (which I try to get thru pyramids and specialists).

I would very much support separating those WW's that way I can avoid that "rush calander or die" phase of the game. My suggestion would be to move Maussolloss to aesthetics (as lets face it, its rather Aesthetic!) and make it require Calendar.

5. I love the modern settler units and how they found cities that come with built-in "standard" buildings. One small tweak I'd like to see is the Pioneer (or perhaps another later more advanced settler unit?) build modern granaries rather than standard ones.
I am also very supportive of adding at least 2 more settler units after the pioneer. One during the modern period (could be in the form of the frieght truck) and another one or two in the transhuman era (a simplified colony pod graphic perhaps?).
 
Rev621

  • Fixed some CTD (imported from C2C revisions 4340, 4977 and 4983, partially imported), compiled and updated dll
  • Added 2 Earth maps (1 huge maps, 15 Civs preset starting locations and 1 GEM, 26 Civs with preset starting locations)
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;12295985 said:
Rev621

  • Added 2 Earth maps (1 huge maps, 15 Civs preset starting locations and 1 GEM, 26 Civs with preset starting locations)

26? I take it you didn't use my one? I thought my starting locations were perfect, why'd you change it?
 
26? I take it you didn't use my one? I thought my starting locations were perfect, why'd you change it?

Well, I had to make some changes:
- first of all, flags; Germany used the nazi flag which by the way is illegal in Germany (there are a lot of discussion about this in various sections of Civfanatics Forum), so I've chosen not to use new flags (at least for the moment)
- secondly, some civs where misplaced (Greece was in Turkey, Holy Roman in Ukraine, Russia was placed too far in the east, ottomans were in Kazakhistan)
- there were 2 atzec civilizations (Montezuma and Atotozli), one in Mexico, the other one in Brazil
- there were 2 indian civilizations (both starting in India)
- there were 2 mongolian civilizations (one is starting in Manchuria)
- Chinese civilization was starting more near Macau/Hong Kong than near Beijing
- Khmer are starting somewhere in China
- Menelik (Ethiopia) was starting in Cameroon (west Africa) instead of Ethiopia (East Africa)
- Maya were starting between Alabama and Florida, which surely isn't right

So I removed doubled civilizations and placed the other in their correct starting locations. Besides, for those who wish to play with barbarian civs / revolutions there must be room for other civs and/or colonization of undeveloped territories.
 
I'm glad to see that this mod is back under development. I'm installing the latest version as I type this; it'll be interesting to see how much of an improvement it is over the last version of AND.

That being said, I made quite a lot of tweaks to the version of AND that is currently installed. I plan on testing this mod so I can see how to best streamline any anomalies that occur, such as my current version of AND's unevenly paced late game. I found that heavily tweaking the science cost of late game technologies and doing a bit of reworking on the production and commerce buildings/improvements did a lot to alleviate the one tech per turn issue.
 
Rev 622

Fixed incompatibility problem for Limited Religions and Choose Religion options. Code imported from C2C dll, compiled dll, sources updated and dropped dll in assets folder

EDIT: WARNING, looks like this version is causing problem with religions spread, will update as soon as possible to another revision, in the meantime I suggest you all stick to 621
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;12299571 said:
Rev 622

Fixed incompatibility problem for Limited Religions and Choose Religion options. Code imported from C2C dll, compiled dll, sources updated and dropped dll in assets folder

Had started a game v619. Upgraded to v622. Spread religion is no longer functioning (e.g., any religious unit I have in a city "fails" to spread religion to the city 100% of the time, regardless of the religion or religious unit. Religion however "spreads" as normal, just can't be spread using units.
 
@dudeSDCA,

Need savegame please. And have you modified the mod in anyway?

Did you also check the BUG options that allows a city to have up to 7 religions to see if it's been checked/activated?

Are you using Divine Prophet Option?

Details Please!

JosEPh
 
Don't worry guys, I've checked myself and it looks like it doesn't work. It's probably something I've done in the latest revision, I'll have to check and will either update the mod soon if I'm able to solve the problem or revert to previous revision.
@Joseph, Divine Prophets has been removed from AND2 a few revisions ago ;)
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;12296979 said:
Well, I had to make some changes:
- first of all, flags; Germany used the nazi flag which by the way is illegal in Germany (there are a lot of discussion about this in various sections of Civfanatics Forum), so I've chosen not to use new flags (at least for the moment)
- secondly, some civs where misplaced (Greece was in Turkey, Holy Roman in Ukraine, Russia was placed too far in the east, ottomans were in Kazakhistan)
- there were 2 atzec civilizations (Montezuma and Atotozli), one in Mexico, the other one in Brazil
- there were 2 indian civilizations (both starting in India)
- there were 2 mongolian civilizations (one is starting in Manchuria)
- Chinese civilization was starting more near Macau/Hong Kong than near Beijing
- Khmer are starting somewhere in China
- Menelik (Ethiopia) was starting in Cameroon (west Africa) instead of Ethiopia (East Africa)
- Maya were starting between Alabama and Florida, which surely isn't right

So I removed doubled civilizations and placed the other in their correct starting locations. Besides, for those who wish to play with barbarian civs / revolutions there must be room for other civs and/or colonization of undeveloped territories.

This was all for good reason.. Beleive me I have a tonne of experience playing on the GEM map and playtested with variations of starting positions a number of times. What I came up with was optimal.

Its not about it being a 'historical scenario' its about balance and giving all the civs somewhat of an equal opportunity to thrive is far more important. Japan is probably the only exception, being at a disadvantage, but I left them in for variety.

I have helped balance the c2c GEM map for over a year and its all mainly been to do with starting positions/area.

The duplicate civs are for good reason - they are clearly labelled differently, such as the 2nd Indian civ being Cholans & 2nd Aztec civ in brazil being Tupi, Mayans are the Apache, duplicate Mongols are Jurchen, then there is china, siam, khmer, mongols also around asia. They only use the leaderhead and artstyle of the 'duplicated' civ. The 'off placement' of certain civs like greece and russia is very deliberate. Greece in particular unless placed in that particular spot should be removed because they will never get more than 1-2 cities. Russia unless placed further east clogs up eastern Europe and it leaves FAR too much open area to russia's east. This is also the reason for holy roman's inclusion and 'off' placement, etc, etc.

The flag stuff I can understand but as for the civ placements - I think you should definitely reconsider.
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;12301216 said:
Don't worry guys, I've checked myself and it looks like it doesn't work. It's probably something I've done in the latest revision, I'll have to check and will either update the mod soon if I'm able to solve the problem or revert to previous revision.
@Joseph, Divine Prophets has been removed from AND2 a few revisions ago ;)

I know and was wondering if he had somehow reactivated it. Or made some other modification.

Most of these posters when they have a problem do not give any details. I never mastered the "Rabbit out of the Hat" ability at guessing.

JosEPh :p
 
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