Brainstorming Thread - One-Trick-Pony Techs

Sogroon said:
These changes all make sense :)

+
Horseback Riding should be renamed to something, since it is no longer horse exclusive. Mounted Warfare, maybe?
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How about "absolutely not"? First, I do not want to rename anything that comes from original BTS without a very good reason and a place to put the name that I'm giving up (which is why I did rename Forbidden Palace and ditched the original Colosseum). If nothing else, I think BTS did a good job with its names. Second, I do not like the X Warfare name construction and would prefer something a little less military-focused. I don't really like techs that are combat-specific, and I'm happy when we can mix combat and noncombat content together in one tech. Third, naming things for overly technical reasons is a very particular sore spot with me. Changing names like that was a big reason why I left C2C, and I do not want to do that again. This is a game, not a textbook, and I think there are several modders out there that could benefit by taking this to heart. I believe in naming techs by hitting the highest point and then let it sweep under anything closely related.
 
I agree that mounted warfare may not be a good decision, but keeping something only because it's coming from BTS is a nonsense. It's an orthodoxy that is just as useless as the "change everything" attitude.
Remember, the the whole civic system was changed.
With a great respect for your work: I don't ask to change that name, just think it over one last time and do what you feel right.
You are doing a very good job, but sometimes I feel you are too orthodox regarding BTS content. That is my expression and maybe I'm alone with it.
Anyway you all deserve a great thanks for this great mod and I don't want to discourage anyone with my different opinions.
 
Sogroon said:
I agree that mounted warfare may not be a good decision, but keeping something only because it's coming from BTS is a nonsense. It's an orthodoxy that is just as useless as the "change everything" attitude.
Remember, the the whole civic system was changed.
With a great respect for your work: I don't ask to change that name, just think it over one last time and do what you feel right.
You are doing a very good job, but sometimes I feel you are too orthodox regarding BTS content. That is my expression and maybe I'm alone with it.
Anyway you all deserve a great thanks for this great mod and I don't want to discourage anyone with my different opinions.
Click to expand...

Ok I see both sides as valid viewpoints.

Leaving legacy BTS names is more than just arbitrary orthodoxy - players from BTS and other mods are already familiar with the content and names, so they instantly 'get' what the technology does and is. There is an existing understanding and recognition from re-using the BTS naming.

On the other hand, "Mounted Warfare" is a much more accurate tech name, and I actually prefer the technology name over Horseback riding. Accuracy and precise terms are important to keep clarity and prevent player confusion.

So... my take on it. I am happy with either name.
 
I have to say that if we're adding elephant units and the like to HBR, then a name-change might be in order, as "Horseback Riding" is a very specific name. That said, I agree with Afforess' point on the BTS name.

I certainly agree with Vokarya on giving things overly specific names though, such as Modern Armour or Commercial Whaling or what-have-you.
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;13514297 said:
What about simply Riding? I don't know how it sounds for native english speakers.
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Bareback Riding to distinguish it from Stirrup later tech?
 
All of the proposed names are so far much worse than Mounted Warfare, or just Horseback Riding.

I vote for the path of least resistance, let the name stay.
 
Horseback Riding's fine. I don't think having elephants reassigned to it would require a renaming personally, but that's just me. I can't really think of anything better anyway heh
 
We've cut the number of techs that need attention down to 16. One of the techs that still needs help is Smart Drugs. It's at a 1.5 now, with the Research Hospital and the +2 gold from Pharmacies. I'm thinking of taking the Cure for Cancer project from Gene Manipulation and putting it here. I have a hard time believing that Cure for Cancer in the sense given by this Wonder (a universal cure, not the range of treatments we have now) is really Modern Era, and should probably be Transhuman Era.
 
With my latest revision, we have cut the number of one-trick techs down to 5 (with 8 more 1.5 trick techs). One of the five is Thermodynamics. I'm at a loss as to what to give it.

The only thing Thermodynamics currently has is the Cement Mill. It used to have a Great Scientist but that was cut when I regularized the number of Great People of each type from techs. Superstring Theory kept the Scientist for the Industrial/Modern Era, and then it wound up at Superconductors when the late-Modern physics techs were combined and reshuffled.

I am definitely not going to get rid of Thermodynamics as a tech. I think it covers 19th-century, post-Newton/pre-Einstein physics very well. I also don't see anything that can be moved from another Industrial tech, so that's not really an option either. Any ideas?
 
Thermodynamics is also vital in making high quality steel, so we could start with that. Like give some :hammers: bonus to Ironworks and Steelmill?

EDIT :Wait. Do we have Steelmill and Ironworks at the same tech? Steel iirc? Maybe we could move Ironworks NW to Thermodynamics. I don't think it is very good to have the good and the better stuff at the same place. After all Ironworks was meant to help those civs that lack the recruitments for Steelmill. They can wait a bit :)
 
Tolni said:
Didn't Thermodynamics have Airship, too?
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Airships are available at Flight. Airship needs to be where it is so that the counter-units (the Biplane and AA Gun) are also available.

I considered Balloon units, but I don't think they had enough real impact on wars to be worth including. I could only see Balloon units as either an Air unit with a very short range and only able to perform recon missions, or a pseudo-Helicopter unit that would wind up with such a low strength that Adventurer would be a better bet; the only advantages a Helicopter-class balloon would have would be ability to enter coasts and not require Horse (I can't justify giving balloons Sentry II, and Adventurer starts with Sentry I).
 
Sogroon said:
Thermodynamics is also vital in making high quality steel, so we could start with that. Like give some :hammers: bonus to Ironworks and Steelmill?
Click to expand...

Steel tech requires Thermodynamics for that very reason. I see Steel and Electricity as the gateway techs of the middle third of the Industrial Era, and so I wanted quite a bit of space between Steam Power and Steel, unlike in BTS where Steam Power and Steel are both starter techs for the Industrial Era.

Sogroon said:
EDIT :Wait. Do we have Steelmill and Ironworks at the same tech? Steel iirc? Maybe we could move Ironworks NW to Thermodynamics. I don't think it is very good to have the good and the better stuff at the same place. After all Ironworks was meant to help those civs that lack the recruitments for Steelmill. They can wait a bit :)
Click to expand...

We could move Ironworks to Thermodynamics. The only catch I can see is that Ironworks will produce Steel resources regardless of whatever tech requirements are on the Steel resource (either the reveal tech or the trade tech). However, the stuff that absolutely requires Steel doesn't show up until the late Industrial Era and most things prior to that are Iron or Steel, so the one early Steel resource from Ironworks won't hurt anything too much.

I did look more closely at what we have at Steel, and we could move the Iron Frigate instead of the Ironworks. I don't want to move both, because that would reduce Steel from 5 tricks to 3, but I'll move one or the other unless something else comes along.
 
Thinking of the earliest 'steam engines'... Much of the early research into Thermodynamics was aimed at developing better pumps, which allowed mines to pump out water more efficiently. Any possibility of Thermodynamics affecting mine yields, or something like that? Woud an extra commerce or hammer be too strong?
 
Okay, I just realised that Steel requires Thermodynamics, and not the other way, which is strange, since historicly the knowledge of Steel is earlier than Thermodynamics.
I think it would worth flipping the two and than move Ironworks.
 
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