Community Deity Game #1 - Persia

I don't think I'll be playing any of the CDG Challenges then. The fact that in order to be recorded you have to pursue the suggested the VC (even the idea that if you don't pursue the suggested VC you should somehow be sanctioned) is pretty repulsive to me. It limits not only creative freedom, but also makes it so that a lot of write-ups and experiences will be similiar to the point of boredom. It also makes one have a strategy right from the start which I think is a horrible thing - it has also cost me countless games. I much prefer developing my strategy as I develop my empire, depending on my dirt, who my enemies are, what the map looks like, what the diplomatic relations are and so forth. I was really looking forward for this since I never got to participate in the DCLs. Oh well.

Nothing's stopping you from starting your own series.

I surveyed the existing community. Did you contribute to that survey?

If you didn't get to participate in the DCLs at the time, nothing is stopping you from going back and doing them. Many people, myself include, read the old threads to see what people got up to.

Lastly, I think this thread alone proves that the strategies are not the same. There are differences between all of them. The reason why there is a suggested VC is so that there is more of a scenario feel to the games. If you want total freedom, you can either play the map anyway, contribute your write-up (no one will mind, some might even be grateful); or start another DCL-like casual series. But I was kinda bored of reading about people's T28x Science Victories tbh. Hardly anyone was going CV or Domination by comparison - which are really the only interesting victories in my book for the most part.

I think you're wrong to write this series off after only one map. Did you read the achievements for the 2nd map? I think there is a lot to chew over and consider. But hey, no one can please everyone, so if you decide not to join us, I guess that's your loss :)
 
Sadly, I don't think I'll be playing any of the CDG Challenges then. The fact that in order to be recorded you have to pursue the suggested the VC (even the idea that if you don't pursue the suggested VC you should somehow be sanctioned) is pretty repulsive to me. It limits not only creative freedom, but also makes it so that a lot of write-ups and experiences will be similiar to the point of boredom. It also makes one have a strategy right from the start which I think is a horrible thing - it has also cost me countless games. I much prefer developing my strategy as I develop my empire, depending on my dirt, who my enemies are, what the map looks like, what the diplomatic relations are and so forth. I was really looking forward for this since I never got to participate in the DCLs. Oh well.
Based on the few games that have been submitted so far, I think the suggested VC has actually encouraged more diverse games than the average DCL map. The only thing the games submitted so far have in common is that they were DomVs. I liked the DCL because I got to see how different players approached the same map, but now I get to see the different paths players take to get from a common starting point to a common end point, which I think may be even more interesting. I think the suggested VC also encourages people to try replaying the map if things don't go well instead of bailing for Diplo, something I admit to doing a couple of times in the DCL.

(If someone wants to submit a SV though, I'll gladly read about it - I thought this map would be great for SV)
 
One achievement and suggested VC combo I'd really appreciate is taking an AI capital in a SV game. Incorporating conquest in a science game on Deity is something I haven't done at all yet, as I always just assumed the AI unit spam requires too many resources to deal with and that only slows you down. I know Manpanzee has at least two sub-210 HOF results with 1900+ bpt using that approach though, so it's definitely viable and it'd be cool to learn and compare the results to peaceful games played on the same map.
 
One achievement and suggested VC combo I'd really appreciate is taking an AI capital in a SV game. Incorporating conquest in a science game on Deity is something I haven't done at all yet, as I always just assumed the AI unit spam requires too many resources to deal with and that only slows you down. I know Manpanzee has at least two sub-210 HOF results with 1900+ bpt using that approach though, so it's definitely viable and it'd be cool to learn and compare the results to peaceful games played on the same map.

OK I'll consider it for the 2nd science map I roll.
 
I literally had a game where I played an incredibly slow 3 City Tradition Carthage with horrible dirt and still managed to get XCom at around T240.

That is a hundred turns faster than I can get there. Modern Armor is a bit more streamlined than when I use Ratty finisher for Hubble -- and it is on the same column. I will give it a go, but I don’t think I can catch the runaway.

EDIT1: Ugh, I felt I was doing so much better but the AI griefing me launches on T298 this time! I am going to see if I can get even get a diplo win on this map. One odd note: none of the AIs open Patronage, Commerce, or Exploration. So that is three WW with no competition.

EDIT2: Just trying again, giving up on the ten immortals. I did not realize how much that was nerfing my game.

  • Late CS bad for all the reasons people beeline it.
  • I could not war early effectively because spearmen cannot take cities. I had no spare capacity to build cats because I was so focused on building the UU.
  • Even with map knowledge, there was not enough barbs to get all the UU leveled up. Last game I had 4x immortal infantry w/ 0 xp.
  • Severe cash flow problem because of unit maintenance. That really killed my science for much, much too long. Then money to upgrade was always an issue.
 
One odd note: none of the AIs open Patronage, Commerce, or Exploration. So that is three WW with no competition.

I've got Exploration and Commerce AIs, so I wouldn't count on a free pass.
 
to t200 - still on track for a complete set of achievements
Spoiler :

With Oxford -> Flight on turn 169 I can start building an air force. India actually hit the Modern Era on turn 167, so I followed Gandhi into Order. He's the second largest cultural threat. Ideological pressure would be a problem later. Now I remember why the WF culture is so nice. :)

At t179 I'm ready to begin the fire and brimstone stage of this game. Egypt (a major cultural runaway) is up first. Ramses is nearly Influential over me already.



Memphis and Thebes I'll keep. Some other cities were burned along the way. ;)



At t200

- I still have all 13 Immortals alive. Most are still wearing their ancient era armour. Some are Infantry.

- So far I have 57 turns of GA (1 natural, 1 Taj, 1 WF, 1 Artist). This means I'll need at least 43 more turns, so there is no rush to conquer the map too quickly. I like that change of pace :lol:

The war against Russia has begun, but since I have both the science and soldier lead this shouldn't be a problem. Bombers (Radar) will be finished either on turn 201 or 202. Labs are up in all my core cities.


 
Thanks for the thumbnails! You get to flight like 50+ faster than I can get there.

"I'm like a bird, I'll only fly away."

My start is actually average - vadalaz and Grendel both have much stronger openings. The reasons that I have flight early are: 1) I've bee-lined it; 2) I've burned resources to get it early, such as Oxford and bulbs. I think I had two early RAs as well. The Immortal maintenance and the Taj investment slowed down the game a little.

Bombers in general are stronger the earlier you can reach them (even more so than other units). If I can stack XP before anti-air enters the picture then getting air repair and logistics becomes much easier.
 
Sadly, I don't think I'll be playing any of the CDG Challenges then. The fact that in order to be recorded you have to pursue the suggested the VC (even the idea that if you don't pursue the suggested VC you should somehow be sanctioned) is pretty repulsive to me. It limits not only creative freedom, but also makes it so that a lot of write-ups and experiences will be similiar to the point of boredom. It also makes one have a strategy right from the start which I think is a horrible thing - it has also cost me countless games. I much prefer developing my strategy as I develop my empire, depending on my dirt, who my enemies are, what the map looks like, what the diplomatic relations are and so forth. I was really looking forward for this since I never got to participate in the DCLs.

I don't necessary like the mandatory VC either but it's not stopping me from playing and surely not preventing presenting my result if/when I choose to disregard the suggestion or simply: participating > making myself into any list. Out of respect for the host(s) I'll, however, by fault try to meet the suggested VC as going maverick everytime seems like a delibrate undermining of the current host and vice versa, I am/will be interested in results which circumvent the suggested VC.

Nothing's stopping you from starting your own series.

PLEASE NO, JUST NO, PRETTY PLEASE JUST SAY NO TO THE TEMPTATION, NO, PLX

The series before DCL died out much to this - too many series, not enough players. Similar to this on other levels would be fine, even welcomed or just continue the ICL but DO NOT CREATE YET ANOTHER DEITY CHALLENGE, not before Acken's mod is sort of finished anyway but rather work with the current host(s) to make the current series acceptable to a wider audience if need be.


Many people, myself include, read the old threads to see what people got up to.

Me too, and I even write in them as I have few oldies yet to play. Excellent entertainment remembering old games.


But I was kinda bored of reading about people's T28x Science Victories tbh. Hardly anyone was going CV or Domination by comparison - which are really the only interesting victories in my book for the most part.

Excellent arguement for the (semi) mandatory VC.
 
Finished this one on turn 269, with all 5 achievements.

A: at least 16 infantry upgraded from immortals
B: razed 18 cities, but one of them gifted to another AI to prevent recapturing, but still more than 15 in any cases.
C: 115 turns of GA, all GA after the first 2 boosted by Chichen Itza
D: No ranged units, although I have 3 gifted from CS in total, so 3 machine guns at the end, 2 of them had range logistic.
E: 4090 points

Planned to conquer most of main continent, in addition to all capitals to satisfy the 5th achievement, starting with Medieval war. Also decided to not build any offensive navy to make it more fun.

Spoiler :

Order of capitals:
159 Thebes
179 Rio de Janeiro
198 Tenochtitlan
219 Moscow
243 Marrakech
256 Delhi
269 Onondaga

5 city liberty until settler, then full honor due to all the open land, stole workers off Ur, Egypt, Brazil, but Brazil still managed to plant Salvador just east of my capital. First expo near faith mountain, but still failed by turn 50 to found religion even with DF, so later adopted Egypt's for faith buying education buildings.

Higher number of cities was required for training approximately 18 immortals, with a lot of spare. I was still over unit cap after capturing first city. I also delayed civil service to give myself more time. Started attacking Egypt with Pikeman + Trebuchet during GA, due to needing his Chichen Itza for boosting golden age. Upgraded to Muskets shortly before taking Thebes. Made peace after Thebes due to having no counter to his navy at the time. His generous gpt was needed at the time. My overall tech rate is slow due to delaying science and tiny population. WF was very early, and only got barely 2nd place.

Next target was obviously Monty, due to his overly aggressive behavior becoming a hate magnet, and he had 2 capitals, having reduced Brazil to 1 city far to the north. By this time I had DoF with 3 civs to the east, and useful for selling lux and resources. Took Salvador which was next to my capital quickly, and kept the city due to its position. Rio de Janeiro, then Tenochtitlan with SoZ fell, after razing several other cities. Decided to completely eliminate Monty from the map, so took and razed several more cities, in the meantime upgraded to cannons. Kept Texcoco for a base to attack Russia and the east.

Bribed Russia to war with all other civs, then invaded them on 2 fronts. 1st army through Monty's land, 2nd army was ready to invade Russia through Egypt, so also DoW Egypt in order to eliminate all their cities from the mainland. Both army converged on Moscow after upgrading to rifles and artillery, while a CS killed her last city off. I later liberated her after DoWing Morocco. Moscow had Bradenburg Gate, so I later would build all the xp buildings there and spam air force if needed. Built 3 factories and took 2nd pick Autocracy, after Iroquois took 1st pick.

Next target was difficult pick, Iroquois has flight already, and was Autocracy, so I decided to buy OB from him and attack the 2 civs to the east with 1st army. They both denounced after my proposal of world ideology Autrocracy, when they took Order. That made the choice easy. Morocco had flight, but no air force, so he fell easily, only his UU was slight problem but they weren't a match for my double cover GWI. Took all except 1 of his mainland cities. Wasn't able to keep Marrakesh due to his navy but was easily recaptured.

DoW India afterwards. They also had flight, but were nearly destroyed by near constant wars with Iroquois, so they were very weak. Took his cities easily, but was unable to keep his coastal cities until his navy was destroyed. He had tech lead until end, where he still had a 1 tech lead. Fought against his Infantry with no problem while I still had GWI at the start of the war. Logistic range volley artillery were destroying his huge cities. It's rare for me to get siege units with that many promotions. By the end of the war, I had landships and infantry and machine guns. Also won IG easily to get the free SP.

Finally was Iroquois' turn, I had several triplanes and 1 GWB by now and should be enough. 2nd army went straight for Onondaga, while 1st army fought their way up from India. He had GW, but didn't matter at this point.


Spoiler :



 
Impressive. It looks like it was a grueling game, however textbook

Trying to get achievement E made my game significantly slower, since all the cities slow science and need to compensate by building more infrastructure instead of more units, and all of those results in draining most of my gold, plus I needed gold for upgrading.

SP: liberty to free settler, full honor, rationalism to secularism, finish liberty for GS and free GA, autocracy 6, commerce to cheaper roads.

Gunpower before Education, Dynamite with Oxford before Scientific Theory, then Flight, Plastics, Combustion, then Radar.
 
consentient said:
Nothing's stopping you from starting your own series.

PLEASE NO, JUST NO, PRETTY PLEASE JUST SAY NO TO THE TEMPTATION, NO, PLX

The series before DCL died out much to this - too many series, not enough players.

Partly my comment was thrown out there because I don't believe for a second that another series WILL be formed. Despite lots of discussion, nothing besides the DCL really endured, and since the CDG is the only really epicentre of any energy, and until other hosts join in, all that energy is being provided by me, the rest of my comment is more or less the most polite I can be with naysayers (especially those choosing emotive terms like 'repulsive' and 'horrible'). I'm trying to be thicker-skinned than I was when host of the DCL, and less accommodating.

i.e. Don't like the series I'm putting together? Don't play.

So I don't think you have anything to worry about, Grendel, especially if you and others contribute maps as rotating hosts.
 
I surveyed the existing community.

Yes, I think you are being pretty responsive to the feedback. I do not recall anything about not recording folks that don’t pursue the suggested VC!

I'm trying to be thicker-skinned than I was when host of the DCL…

I missed that! What was a civ when you recall being thin-skinned? I want to go read one of those threads!
 
I already said that what ST does with the sheet is up to him. It's his baby, not mine. I just gave my opinion that I don't see what the point of playing these maps are if you don't go for the suggested VC. As has already been echoed by numerous players, this does not necessarily lead to a lack of freedom or a narrowing of interest.

@beetle: I don't want to re-hash old arguments and don't understand or appreciate your morbid interest in doing so. What's the point?
 
Re: The spreadsheet

How about +1 point for finishing under 250 and +2 for finishing under 200. Everything else remains as is. We keep it universal throughout the maps and designated VCs as I still think finishing a map in under 250 (200) turns is an achievement in itself
 
Partly my comment was thrown out there because I don't believe for a second that another series WILL be formed. Despite lots of discussion, nothing besides the DCL really endured, and since the CDG is the only really epicentre of any energy, and until other hosts join in, all that energy is being provided by me, the rest of my comment is more or less the most polite I can be with naysayers (especially those choosing emotive terms like 'repulsive' and 'horrible'). I'm trying to be thicker-skinned than I was when host of the DCL, and less accommodating.

i.e. Don't like the series I'm putting together? Don't play.

So I don't think you have anything to worry about, Grendel, especially if you and others contribute maps as rotating hosts.

Yeah, true.dat - I don't actually believe either that a new parallel series will be formed but if my related posts prevents any serious thoughts towards such I'll consider it as a mission accomplished. All the brainpower should be focused on making the current series as good as possible, besides you're the civilised one here while I'm the caveman from tundra so I have no problems of being the prickish defender of the CDG (within the limits of internal CFC rules as I have no immediate wish to be banned).

Lots of other things I could say here as well but most of it if not all have already been said by me or someone else so I'll save the peeps from a new wall of text and point them to read old threads instead if anyone thinks they have something new to contribute.
 
Well I'll be vocal for CDG as I really like the concept. Too bad we started off on the wrong foot (domination task for the inept warmonger, welp)
 
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