C2C _ Unhealthiness Mod

Rwn said:

A simple proposition to make the unhealthiness a bit more dynamic:
- Implement several "levels" of disease (ex. malaria I at 50, malaria II at 100:yuck, etc.)
- Give each level not only a penalty, but also one or more (the disease symbol) to represent the fact that, if not contained, diseases may become worse, then epidemic. This means that when a disease appears, the more you wait to fight it, the harder it will be to eliminate it (along with more severe effects).
- In order to avoid getting things out of control, the disease might be eliminated or severely reduced at some point along with a big penalty. For example, reaching malaria VI may reduce the population by 50%, bring the disease back to level I and lower the to 50 (we could even have various "ultimate effects" depending on the disease).

Applying this with all the current diseases would be overkill, so it would also require either to strongly reduce the number of diseases (simpler, but blander) or that crossing each threshold (50, 100, etc.) increases the level of only one disease (picked at random among those present in the city).

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Already done with malaria but it is based on population and disease level and reduces your production and growth. It still needs some work though.

I just hope this doesn't just get "sprung" on a player that is keeping their cities in Good health. And that a significant level of unhealthiness would be a preq for this type of outbreak to occur.

JosEPh

I like the idea of giving diseases some +

JosEPh_II said:

I just hope this doesn't just get "sprung" on a player that is keeping their cities in Good health. And that a significant level of unhealthiness would be a preq for this type of outbreak to occur.

JosEPh

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It has been in place for quite some time now. I put it is just after the v34 release. It has nothing to do with unhealthiness yuck and everything to do with disease the property and the city population. Malaria is special as it is the only one implemented at the moment. You get it in your cities if you meet the requirements and it reduces your and population growth. Neither are significant until your population is over 10 and only start to be a big problem when your population is over 40.

I have not implemented outbreaks yet. They are short term epidemics that drastically increase the malus and require a disease level at lease twice that of the original disease. They will always be followed by a period where you can't get another outbreak but the length of that period is reduced by a high disease level, I think it is a disease level three times what is required for the disease.

Dancing Hoskuld said:

Already done with malaria but it is based on population and disease level and reduces your production and growth. It still needs some work though.

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Erf, I randomly picked malaria as a sample disease, didn't know you already designed something specific for it...

Desease not only affect humans, but plants and animals too.

eg Fusariose (a disease than can affect cereals) can be used to replace some farm (every *** farm building having a cereal in city vicinity) and a -x% . It doesn't affect human, so no unhealthy from it.
With an event, this desease could even destroy a cereal ressource in city vicinity

LumenAngel said:

Desease not only affect humans, but plants and animals too.

eg Fusariose (a disease than can affect cereals) can be used to replace some farm (every *** farm building having a cereal in city vicinity) and a -x% . It doesn't affect human, so no unhealthy from it.
With an event, this desease could even destroy a cereal ressource in city vicinity

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and Rhinderpest affects cattle and buffalo but is now eradicated world wide. This mod will model only some of the diseases not all. It is intended to replace the disease in the disease mod unfortunately it turns out that Properties are adjustable in modules like other things, it is an all or nothing or nothing which is why this was been removed.

Latest development

I think I have come up with a mechanism that will complement the current disease system. The disease in the disease system will not have any effects of itself but will probably "activate" the disease in this system.

Each disease modeled will need two properties in a city. One is similar to the flammability in that it is only changed by events. The other is a simple decay property with no complex spread mechanism. This means that they should have no significant effect on game turns, no more that they currently do implemented as events anyway.

The first property is <disease>_IMMUNITY this gets set to 100% after the effects of disease break out in the city have been applied. It reduces by x% per turn (5% or 10% at a guess) and controls the occurrence of the event and its severity; the higher the immunity the less chance there is an outbreak and the less its effect.

The second property is <disease>_IMMUNITY_MODIFIER. This is needed to model the fact that even if the immunity of the population has dropped to zero there will in reality be people immune to the disease because of

• previous outbreaks
• immunisation programs
• eradication of the disease

Dancing Hoskuld said:

and Rhinderpest affects cattle and buffalo but is now eradicated world wide. This mod will model only some of the diseases not all. It is intended to replace the disease in the disease mod unfortunately it turns out that Properties are adjustable in modules like other things, it is an all or nothing or nothing which is why this was been removed.

Latest development

I think I have come up with a mechanism that will complement the current disease system. The disease in the disease system will not have any effects of itself but will probably "activate" the disease in this system.

Each disease modeled will need two properties in a city. One is similar to the flammability in that it is only changed by events. The other is a simple decay property with no complex spread mechanism. This means that they should have no significant effect on game turns, no more that they currently do implemented as events anyway.

The first property is <disease>_IMMUNITY this gets set to 100% after the effects of disease break out in the city have been applied. It reduces by x% per turn (5% or 10% at a guess) and controls the occurrence of the event and its severity; the higher the immunity the less chance there is an outbreak and the less its effect.

The second property is <disease>_IMMUNITY_MODIFIER. This is needed to model the fact that even if the immunity of the population has dropped to zero there will in reality be people immune to the disease because of

• previous outbreaks
• immunisation programs
• eradication of the disease

Click to expand...

The advanced disease mod already takes all those features into account. I just need to get it working right as generically applicable to any kind of property that we'd want to have operate along similar principles. That's a project I want to address this version so hold off a moment and see what I can do there. I laid the groundwork for it years ago and it still bears a lot of promise.

I have been trying to get the diseases into C2C from when I joined. Every time I am almost there someone puts something in that makes it impossible to get what I want done for them.

Does your system allow 90% of the population of a city to die off in a turn if they have never been exposed to the disease before?

Does it have a variable affect on the population depending on their immunity and the fact that it is not their first exposure?

Does it cater for weaponised diseases that are delivered after the disease was eradicated?

How does it do contagion? Does it cater for "Extremely", "Very", "Somewhat" and "Not"?

Does it cater for units as well as population? Can the effect of the disease increase based on the number of units in the plot, ie not just stack?

Does it cater for persistent diseases like Malaria that have little effect on population but affects the productivity of population and effectiveness of the units?

Dancing Hoskuld said:

Does your system allow 90% of the population of a city to die off in a turn if they have never been exposed to the disease before?

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I suppose you could have an absolutely horrendous amount of unhealth stem from the disease to represent something similar. I could put in a building tag that would make it so that if its the first time the building has emerged it automatically triggers a mass population drop of a programmed amount.

Does it have a variable affect on the population depending on their immunity and the fact that it is not their first exposure?

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A disease will be much harder to deal with the first time it's encountered and afterwards, the population will have earned some resistance to it and a greater ability to overcome it. The severity of this effect will be programmable in xml.

Does it cater for weaponised diseases that are delivered after the disease was eradicated?

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Of course it would How it would work with missiles and such would be a second level of development but it will make it so that infected units that visit the city can certainly spread it and units that attack the city with the capacity to inflict the disease will be able to do so. For example, when the Mongolians reached Europe they started using diseased dead in their catapults to make the city sick when it was too strong to enter right away. This sort of thing will be quite easily done. I just need a quick adaptation of the afflict mechanism to work with Ranged Assault (which is one reason I worked on Ranged Assault as a priority recently.)

How does it do contagion? Does it cater for "Extremely", "Very", "Somewhat" and "Not"?

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Definitely. The system is exactly structured for that.

Does it cater for units as well as population? Can the effect of the disease increase based on the number of units in the plot, ie not just stack?

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Units can be afflicted with a disease and carry it to other units in their plot and to cities they enter. The effect of the disease can increase with greater exposure. In a city, diseases would be 'auto' buildings that each level of which represents a greater percentage of infected and as the disease gains momentum the city can suffer from increasing levels of the disease. More units present that are inflicted can indeed push the city to more likely suffer deeper outbreaks. The stats on the buildings can easily be made to represent more intense penalties.

Does it cater for persistent diseases like Malaria that have little effect on population but affects the productivity of population and effectiveness of the units?

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Certainly. Malaria has some special case stuff that needs a little more programming so that certain terrains and features can become sources of a particular disease for units passing through them but that's part of the project as intended.

Again, most of this stuff has been thought out and even successfully programmed as possible to implement but AIAndy pointed out that it could be improved so that similar concepts could be implemented for say, crime outbreaks for example and that to leave the door open for this it should be slightly reprogrammed to allow it.

When I do get it fully sorted out in the code soon I'll need a ton of XML help from the team to get the diseases themselves fully implemented in all their glory.

I can see this becoming like REV. Taking the gameplay over and destroying the AI when it could be a worthy opponent. Just hope my "gut feeling" is wrong over this.

JosEPh

It's based on the same system we have now... which the AI should actually be very good at managing, perhaps better than a player would be since it has a huge amount of oversight players would need to take a long time to earn. There's one way players can work with their properties better than the AI can though which is to hold off on promoting their property manipulation units until further options for property manipulation open up (which is something I'd have to get really tricky with to teach the AI to do but if it proves to be a major factor I certainly will.)

So it's not a major restructure of the game rules... it just makes us a lot more capable of some very interesting stuff with diseases.