C2C _ Unhealthiness Mod

More generally, would it be possible to make Disease work more like Flammability - i.e. the amount of Disease (as well as a random variable) is a trigger for events that cause disease outbreaks to occur for set amounts of time in cities. As it is presently, diseases are a constant presence as long as your Disease level is above the required threshold - indeed, your city is likely to have the Common Cold (only requires 1 Disease) for the entire game. By having disease outbreaks be tied to events that have a random element instead, it adds a degree of variability and unpredictability, plus it can better reflect how disease actually operates - i.e. periodic outbreaks instead of a constant presence, plus perhaps the events could include variables that allows disease to 'spread' from one city to another.

Firstly disease can very easily go negative, because Graveyard, Mausoleum (buildings), and Healer (early unit) and later Apothecary give decent negatives per turn to it.

That said, I prefer your idea to have random disease events triggered by disease property levels. They would have to happen much more frequently than flammability events do currently, because I pretty much ignore flammability, whereas I check the disease increase rate every turn, everywhere!

But you shouldn't all suddenly get 'the trots' at 50 disease - it's just doesn't make sense. If it's not going to be event-based, then it needs to scale up at 1:yuck: per 15 disease or whatever, and I'd still like a bit more randomness about it. I don't want more or less disease - I just think it ought to work differently.

I would also like crime to work the way you suggest. It seems to me even more appropriate, rather than forgers magically appearing and disappearing as you transgress or retreat from a property level.
 
More generally, would it be possible to make Disease work more like Flammability - i.e. the amount of Disease (as well as a random variable) is a trigger for events that cause disease outbreaks to occur for set amounts of time in cities. As it is presently, diseases are a constant presence as long as your Disease level is above the required threshold - indeed, your city is likely to have the Common Cold (only requires 1 Disease) for the entire game. By having disease outbreaks be tied to events that have a random element instead, it adds a degree of variability and unpredictability, plus it can better reflect how disease actually operates - i.e. periodic outbreaks instead of a constant presence, plus perhaps the events could include variables that allows disease to 'spread' from one city to another.

There's a mechanic in development that would be very similar to this. An introduction to the mechanics behind it and some updates on its development is located in A Modder's Guide to the Advanced Disease Structure of the Combat Mod.
 
That's exactly what needs to happen, yes. Absolutely. I've just been side tracked by the Traits project. I've GOT to get that done and out of the way! That's the only hangup really. Once I'm more on top of that which shouldn't take TOO long, then I can return to this as this is pretty much at the top of the Combat Mod side of my development list. It keeps getting pushed down about as far as it rises in the list every cycle it seems.

Lets put it this way... I'm so close to having this in place (just need to do exactly what you said there) that there's no way that Multi-Maps or the Nomadic Start even would get in the way of this as a priority.
 
That's exactly what needs to happen, yes. Absolutely. I've just been side tracked by the Traits project. I've GOT to get that done and out of the way! That's the only hangup really. Once I'm more on top of that which shouldn't take TOO long, then I can return to this as this is pretty much at the top of the Combat Mod side of my development list. It keeps getting pushed down about as far as it rises in the list every cycle it seems.

Lets put it this way... I'm so close to having this in place (just need to do exactly what you said there) that there's no way that Multi-Maps or the Nomadic Start even would get in the way of this as a priority.
Actually by now I don't think we should go for simply making it more generic but instead turn it into a general autobuild system that allows to model many different things associated with construction and deconstruction of buildings (and probably promotions).
 
Simplest way can be autobuildable disease buildings that provides free negative promotions ex

Malaria
Exist above 300 disease
Require jungle (just example) or unit with malaria promotion stayed in city
Free malaria promotion for units build in that city.
Disappear only when disease will be below 300

This system is reasonable because when unit with malaria will stay in city with high disease level it will infect citizens but if disease rate will low citizens will not be affected by disease and unit should have a chance to cure.

In that system is possible to have city with high disease level without disease buildings (no terrain triggers) until someone will bring disease to the city ex affected unit or enemy spy.
 
Simplest way can be autobuildable disease buildings that provides free negative promotions ex

Malaria
Exist above 300 disease
Require jungle (just example) or unit with malaria promotion stayed in city
Free malaria promotion for units build in that city.
Disappear only when disease will be below 300

This system is reasonable because when unit with malaria will stay in city with high disease level it will infect citizens but if disease rate will low citizens will not be affected by disease and unit should have a chance to cure.

In that system is possible to have city with high disease level without disease buildings (no terrain triggers) until someone will bring disease to the city ex affected unit or enemy spy.

That is how it already works IIRC. Which is fine by me, even if it isn't entirely realistic.
 
@Nimek Exactly also how the Black Plague came to Europe Traders and especially Ships brought back more then just the wanted goods Disease is a side effect to Trade and unit movement across Theatres (Spannish Conquistador's returning with diseases the natives where largely immune to and vice versa)
 
I think so. I don't think any of the other ones have been implemented yet. Likewise the ones we do have may be changed later when we have a more dynamic system.

Note my mod folder has ...

Disease Mod
- Disease (Anthrax)
- Disease (Bird Flu)
- Disease (Common Cold)
- Disease (Dysentery)
- Disease (Scurvy)
- Disease (Swine Flu)

However I am unsure if DH's Cannibalism stuff has Disease (Kuru). Likewise I know there are some disease based events like the Plague.
 
Quick question - are all of the Disease 'buildings' in the Modules/Hydro/Disease folder?

Not the malaria ones, but they are turned off for now. Malaria works differently from other diseases. In general other diseases affect a community in a linear relation to the population but with malaria the effect is greater the more people there are ie not linear. The counter measures are not linear either, small counter measures fix large amounts of the problems but it takes more and more effort to fix smaller amounts of the problem. At least until a cure is found.
 
I'd like to make a small suggestion regarding the Disease buildings (presuming I'm understanding the system correctly! ;) ), as a stop-gap measure until the more complex scheme is introduced. Currently, of the six Disease buildings, three appear at 100 Disease (for +3 :yuck: total), and two appear at 50 Disease (for +4 :yuck: total), with Common Cold appearing at 1 Disease. I'd suggest spreading these out a bit, to give more granularity and make more Disease levels important in eliminated Disease buildings (i.e. at present, there's no difference between 100 and 200 Disease). In particular, I'd change the Disease threshold of the following:

Scurvy - from 50 to 75
Bird Flu - from 100 to 150
Anthrax - from 100 to 200

Note - there's no reason why I've put Bird Flu at 150 & Anthrax at 200, other than having different buildings at different levels, in case people think they should be switched. I've been playing with these changes for the past week or so, and they seem to be balanced.
 
at present, there's no difference between 100 and 200 Disease).

From what you're saying, there's no difference between 100 and 1000 disease!!!!

Is this really true???! The mind boggles! :crazyeye:
 
From what you're saying, there's no difference between 100 and 1000 disease!!!!

Is this really true???! The mind boggles! :crazyeye:

This is how the AI values are set for disease currently:
Code:
			<iAIWeight>0</iAIWeight> 
			<AIScaleType>AISCALE_CITY</AIScaleType>
			<iOperationalRangeMin>0</iOperationalRangeMin>
			<iOperationalRangeMax>110</iOperationalRangeMax>
This means:
  • Disease is not considered at all by the AI (AIWeight of 0). This slightly surprises me, but probably deliberately reflects the in-development nature of disease, as there's no point the AI considering it if the balance is not yet there to enable it to be effectively addressed
  • No value lower than 0 improves anything
  • No value higher than 110 makes anything worse
In general any property will have SOME value beyond which further increases (or below which further decreases) have no impact, and those values are essentially arbitrary design choices. If there are disease buildings that come in above 100 or so then the current AI range max is wrong (but not impactful since the AIWeight is anyway set to 0) - basically these values should reflect the max (and min) values at which new disease effects are triggered.
For human consumption there is probably a case to be made for normalizing all properties to have the same operational range (0-1000 say), otherwise it's hard for a user to know that 100 disease is 'as bad as it gets', yet 100 crime is fairly moderate.
 
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