Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
There are two major flaws with the current version of Ranged Bombard (otherwise known as DCMBombard) that I'm seeking to address here and in the process of evaluating the coding there's more I'd like to adjust that I figured I'd bring forward to the forum before committing to.
The problems as identified so far:
1) The damage that is dealt by ranged bombard attacks is purely derivative from the unit's ability to inflict collateral damage and basically a successful bombard is just a one shot collateral attack without actually entering battle to achieve it.
The problem is that we have a number of units that we've setup to ranged bombard that don't even deal any collateral! So our own intentions for having units that can ranged bombard that don't also do collateral damage when they attack are being entirely thwarted by the methods this system utilizes.
One example: the Frigate cannot deal collateral but has the ranged bombard ability but unfortunately does nothing when it takes such an action because it doesn't have any collateral.
Proposed Solution: New tags to define what Collateral tags had previously defined for these units. This will mean we start by cloning over collateral applications to the new tags but we'll have to go much deeper and actually develop it out on meaningful progression scales and include units that should be able to Ranged Bombard but cannot cause Collateral into the picture. This will be the lion's share of the grunt work on the project. Perhaps someone would like to embrace this end of the project?
2) Ranged Bombard never hits the lead defender in the stack. This really mutes its benefit since it won't help you to make that first 'best defender' any easier to overcome - EVER. If there's only one defender, ranged bombard is completely useless. For Size Matters, the option exacerbates the problem significantly since the most powerful largest most merged unit generally escapes any worry from this form of attack while it yet should be the most targeted.
Proposed Solution: An entirely new function handles Ranged Bombardment and while very similar to the processing of Collateral damage, it does not skip the lead defender but rather targets that unit FIRST.
Now... those are issues that others have pointed out as being problematic (and I completely agree.)
But there's also a few more things I ran across while evaluating the code:
1) I did not know this because I always use the Ranged Bombard mission only when I've already bombarded the city defenses down as far as I can with the normal City Bombard mission but apparently if you Ranged Bombard when there is still some Bombardable City Defenses in place then you have a chance of either striking the city OR a unit (I'm not sure they got that working quite like their notes indicated they'd wanted to - it's possible that it will ONLY hit the city defenses until that's reduced as far as possible.)
This is kinda an issue for me because the calculations between the normal City Bombard action and the results you get through this mission are entirely different and I don't think it's terribly cool to the player to be so potentially confusing to have both missions available while one does only the first part and the other does something akin to the first part while mostly being for the second part (targeting the units on the plot.) It also invites a lot of disharmony between the normal City Bombard action and the Ranged Bombard action and I'd much rather separate them completely.
Proposed Solution: Completely disable the ability for Ranged Bombard to act in any way like a City Bombard intended to tear down the defenses.
2) For those moments when a Ranged Bombard IS hitting units rather than the city defenses and there ARE city defenses still able to be further bombarded, units in the city are oddly MORE vulnerable to Ranged Bombard rather than more protected from it. I find this counter-intuitive and counter-productive to game play.
Proposed Solution: Take the % of Total City Defense vs Current City Defense (considering all damage the city has currently taken) and apply it as a modifier to...
3) The city's defense against bombard never plays a roll in this kind of defense at all - only against the kind of City Bombard that tears down the city defenses. It should apply here as well.
Proposed Solution:(continuing from above)Take the % of Total City Defense vs Current City Defense (considering all damage the city has currently taken) and apply it as a modifier to the maximum normal city bombard defense and use that final value as an expansion of the amount of potential to miss any unit targeted by this attack.
I believe I would like to continue to utilize Collateral Defense units have as a damage resistance factor against Ranged Bombard.
4) The information display on units lacks an explanation of the rating of damage, maximum targets, and damage limit and this currently stems from those values being derived from the collateral ability of the unit (which to me can have entirely different justifications.)
Proposed Solution: Self explanatory - add more description to the unit hovers.
5) Range, Accuracy, Damage, Damage Limit, and Maximum Targets are currently undevelopable from promos and unitcombats (except for those things which currently work to develop collateral since that's how many of these values are derived.)
Proposed Solution: Make it possible for promos and unitcombats to manipulate these values - this can mean a whole new world of development for Siege and Air unit (since Air units use this mission too) promotion lines. They need some more to work with I think.
6) When Ranged Bombarding from a city to strike at approaching units, the accuracy odds are greatly diminished. This again seems terribly counter-intuitive and irrational but was apparently done for gamebalance in light of an overly powerful automatic bombard reaction on another option. THAT option has been rebalanced so as to be much less powerful so I believe we can now dispense with this illogical odds hit when bombarding at units from the comfort of a city. (If anything it should be easier to hit approaching attackers as you would have your terrain very well mapped out.)
Proposed Solution: Simply disable the penalty here. I could see Tower buildings actually generating a local Accuracy (and maybe range?) bonus for local Ranged Bombarding units. I wasn't planning on inserting this capability right away but I'll see what y'all say on that.
So I'm looking to solve all of the above issues. And I have the majority of the coding to do so complete already and pending re-adjustment based on feedback or commit based on agreed upon acceptance.
The only problem would be that it would make all ranged bombard units ineffective until their Damage, Damage Limit, and Max # of Target Units tags were defined - which again would be at first just cloned over from unit bombard tags as they currently stand to get us caught up to where we are now before doing a complete re-evaluation of Ranged Bombard Capable units.
Opinions, suggestions, offers of aid?
The problems as identified so far:
1) The damage that is dealt by ranged bombard attacks is purely derivative from the unit's ability to inflict collateral damage and basically a successful bombard is just a one shot collateral attack without actually entering battle to achieve it.
The problem is that we have a number of units that we've setup to ranged bombard that don't even deal any collateral! So our own intentions for having units that can ranged bombard that don't also do collateral damage when they attack are being entirely thwarted by the methods this system utilizes.
One example: the Frigate cannot deal collateral but has the ranged bombard ability but unfortunately does nothing when it takes such an action because it doesn't have any collateral.
Proposed Solution: New tags to define what Collateral tags had previously defined for these units. This will mean we start by cloning over collateral applications to the new tags but we'll have to go much deeper and actually develop it out on meaningful progression scales and include units that should be able to Ranged Bombard but cannot cause Collateral into the picture. This will be the lion's share of the grunt work on the project. Perhaps someone would like to embrace this end of the project?
2) Ranged Bombard never hits the lead defender in the stack. This really mutes its benefit since it won't help you to make that first 'best defender' any easier to overcome - EVER. If there's only one defender, ranged bombard is completely useless. For Size Matters, the option exacerbates the problem significantly since the most powerful largest most merged unit generally escapes any worry from this form of attack while it yet should be the most targeted.
Proposed Solution: An entirely new function handles Ranged Bombardment and while very similar to the processing of Collateral damage, it does not skip the lead defender but rather targets that unit FIRST.
Now... those are issues that others have pointed out as being problematic (and I completely agree.)
But there's also a few more things I ran across while evaluating the code:
1) I did not know this because I always use the Ranged Bombard mission only when I've already bombarded the city defenses down as far as I can with the normal City Bombard mission but apparently if you Ranged Bombard when there is still some Bombardable City Defenses in place then you have a chance of either striking the city OR a unit (I'm not sure they got that working quite like their notes indicated they'd wanted to - it's possible that it will ONLY hit the city defenses until that's reduced as far as possible.)
This is kinda an issue for me because the calculations between the normal City Bombard action and the results you get through this mission are entirely different and I don't think it's terribly cool to the player to be so potentially confusing to have both missions available while one does only the first part and the other does something akin to the first part while mostly being for the second part (targeting the units on the plot.) It also invites a lot of disharmony between the normal City Bombard action and the Ranged Bombard action and I'd much rather separate them completely.
Proposed Solution: Completely disable the ability for Ranged Bombard to act in any way like a City Bombard intended to tear down the defenses.
2) For those moments when a Ranged Bombard IS hitting units rather than the city defenses and there ARE city defenses still able to be further bombarded, units in the city are oddly MORE vulnerable to Ranged Bombard rather than more protected from it. I find this counter-intuitive and counter-productive to game play.
Proposed Solution: Take the % of Total City Defense vs Current City Defense (considering all damage the city has currently taken) and apply it as a modifier to...
3) The city's defense against bombard never plays a roll in this kind of defense at all - only against the kind of City Bombard that tears down the city defenses. It should apply here as well.
Proposed Solution:(continuing from above)Take the % of Total City Defense vs Current City Defense (considering all damage the city has currently taken) and apply it as a modifier to the maximum normal city bombard defense and use that final value as an expansion of the amount of potential to miss any unit targeted by this attack.
I believe I would like to continue to utilize Collateral Defense units have as a damage resistance factor against Ranged Bombard.
4) The information display on units lacks an explanation of the rating of damage, maximum targets, and damage limit and this currently stems from those values being derived from the collateral ability of the unit (which to me can have entirely different justifications.)
Proposed Solution: Self explanatory - add more description to the unit hovers.
5) Range, Accuracy, Damage, Damage Limit, and Maximum Targets are currently undevelopable from promos and unitcombats (except for those things which currently work to develop collateral since that's how many of these values are derived.)
Proposed Solution: Make it possible for promos and unitcombats to manipulate these values - this can mean a whole new world of development for Siege and Air unit (since Air units use this mission too) promotion lines. They need some more to work with I think.
6) When Ranged Bombarding from a city to strike at approaching units, the accuracy odds are greatly diminished. This again seems terribly counter-intuitive and irrational but was apparently done for gamebalance in light of an overly powerful automatic bombard reaction on another option. THAT option has been rebalanced so as to be much less powerful so I believe we can now dispense with this illogical odds hit when bombarding at units from the comfort of a city. (If anything it should be easier to hit approaching attackers as you would have your terrain very well mapped out.)
Proposed Solution: Simply disable the penalty here. I could see Tower buildings actually generating a local Accuracy (and maybe range?) bonus for local Ranged Bombarding units. I wasn't planning on inserting this capability right away but I'll see what y'all say on that.
So I'm looking to solve all of the above issues. And I have the majority of the coding to do so complete already and pending re-adjustment based on feedback or commit based on agreed upon acceptance.
The only problem would be that it would make all ranged bombard units ineffective until their Damage, Damage Limit, and Max # of Target Units tags were defined - which again would be at first just cloned over from unit bombard tags as they currently stand to get us caught up to where we are now before doing a complete re-evaluation of Ranged Bombard Capable units.
Opinions, suggestions, offers of aid?