Is 2 City NC really that strong?

unrendered said:
Staying at two cities until hermitage? Isn't it like an auto loss already then? If not does it even make sense to settle afterwards? The cities won't have enough time to grow.
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You can win OCC, so no, the game isn't auto lost then. However all cities you get post that point should be ones you conquer as a self founded city won't pay for itself.
(Minor exception of if you can't get a key resource form city states and the major AIs don't either but there is one of them in land that AI left unclaimed)

beetle said:
I really feel compelled to have cities 2 and 3 first build be a monument or shrine before starting to hard build the library (because otherwise the monument or shrine is terribly delayed by the library build). If I get better at saving, then the 4th city can safely start with monument or shrine also (since it's cash rushing the library). Most games I struggle to get NC done by turn 100, but I certainly agree that doing so makes a big difference.
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2 city NC and one version of 3 city NC are both Tradition tactics. So, no their monument won't be terribly delayed. (It will however arrive one policy later than it used to post Halloween patch.) Usually a pantheon providing faith is what is used to found a religion as well. (In other cases Stonehenge in the capital)
It's actually more significant that the granary is getting delayed.
 
If you get someone like Gandhi in your game who always does DoF you can even get two libraries bought. By selling lux to him all the time for cash and selling open borders too and doing some loans with all the AIs you can get two libraries. Also, finding all civs and almost all cs fast gives you a lot of gold too. If you manage to do all this you can barely pull it off but it's doable.
 
joncnunn said:
2 city NC and one version of 3 city NC are both Tradition tactics.
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Thanks for that clarification, as I have been following this with 3 or 4 city NC Liberty in mind.

Usually a pantheon providing faith is what is used to found a religion as well... It's actually more significant that the granary is getting delayed.
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Good catch, I should have written “monument or shrine or granary” before library. Agreed, pantheon (or SH) is for founding a religion. Shrine is for getting a pantheon, but sometimes I build two of them early (the rare case when 2nd city is up very fast). Once I open Piety, which sometimes happens before NC, then I also have shrines early in the queue.
 
In my current game as Babylon I tried a 1-city NC and achieved a t93 Education, and that's with me researching Optics. OK that was with me building the GL and not bothering about religion and I have to hard build my universities but I think there is some argument for a 2-city NC. I've left it at 1BC so it'll be interesting to see if I capitilise on that by getting to the Information era whilst the world is still in the Industrial.....
 
Particularly with the new change in the tradition tree, delaying the free monument, a 2 - city NC is certainly viable and depending on map conditions can be the 'correct' play. As discussed in many threads the opening phase is about reaching certain benchmarks asap. Filling out Tradition (best growth option), getting NC, and getting to Education. Generating a strong capital makes these work, so depending on your happiness, gold, and AI management, sometimes 2 city makes sense. As others have commented, unless you get huge cash, a 4-city NC is generally slower than waiting to plant the 4th.
 
I find it interesting that people are saying these strats in such absolute terms. It's all map dependent. Some maps you can't sell luxuries, some maps you need to expand earlier, some maps you have crappy production city locations etc. Are people just debating the most ideal start assuming a perfect starting position?
 
I do 2-city NC all the time. Usually it involves starting close to someone else. Found 2 cities, NC, archer, archer, ... archer, let the other guy settle for you and puppet them. Becomes a 4-city game really fast. Two just happen to be puppets.
 
Strickl3r said:
In the Thread about the very fast science victory on deity the guy went 2 city NC i think and Marbozir even left a settler idle for almost 20 turns in his latest let's play to get the NC earlier.

I can't find a specific Thread within the first page of the search function, so i just want to ask if someone crunshed the numbers on this or how situational this even is???

I'm still getting used to the mechanics of Civ 5 because they are so different to Civ 4.
Basicly so far i have the feeling that almost everything what was good in civ 4(settling close to capitol, tile sharing/overlap, more good citys->faster dates higher scores = more everything) is now not really that good anymore or even bad.

Staying on just 2 citys and delaying 2-3 potential other citys really doesn't seem like a good idea to me^^
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4 city NC is better but not always as easy to do (more workers needed, luxuries and good production in cap). Also Babylon can get fast philo so it is probably the civ that can get the best out of 2city NC.
Especially:
and Marbozir even left a settler idle for almost 20 turns in his latest let's play to get the NC earlier.
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Please don't do that, it's a terrible idea. Plan your stuff better.

I advise 3city NC if you aren't sure of your opener. It's always at least decent.
 
thing is it really doesnt matter if you do 2, 3, 4, 5, or even 6 city NC, the important thing is to time things optimally and dont waste turns, if you can complete 2,3,4,5 city NC with very good timings with libraries in all cities, you will be in good shape
 
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