Qin keeps voting for the wrong civ in UN elections

rbj2001

Warlord
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
190
So I'm going for diplomatic victory. I'm up against Huayna Capac. As you can see I'm +14 with Qin, and Huyana is only +11.



But Qin still votes for Huyana. He's done this like 3 times. Why would this be? Is it just a strategy to stop me winning? (Playing K-mod... not sure if that makes any difference.)

 
There are hidden modifiers that influence the outcome of the vote, which is possibly what's causing Qin to vote for Huyana over you. What those hidden modifiers are I don't really know, but it involves how much a civ likes a peaceful civ or a war-like civ.

It's crap, I know.

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Blackarc is right. You may only be off by a point or two. As Hatty is Spiritual, see if some civic changes can work. See if you can get Qin out of HR if he is in it, and make sure you are in Qin's favorite civic.

Make sure you get all the bonus you can. Keep gifting techs to Qin and you will get a bonus for that. I assume you have traded resources, but if you don't have +2 from that yet, give him everything he doesn't have.

If Qin has a free space within 9 tiles of his capital that you can settle on, you can try gifting him a city for liberation bonus (make sure it says that).

Lastly, simply see if you can get those two into a war.

Ideally, in a Diplo game you want more vassals than your foes.
 
Thanks for the tips. This was more of an "opportunistic" diplo win chance. I didn't have much of a strategy... earlier in the game Hammumbari had attacked me, so I converted to Buddhism to please Qin, so I could bribe him into war. Then got everyone else to pile in. I had the opportunity to vassalize Hammumbari but thought I'd be better off taking over his cities... bad mistake since Qin vassalized him instead a couple of turns later.

After that it was a love-in with no opportunity for military conquest or setting civs off against each other, since we were all friendly and signed defensive pacts. And I was behind in both military and tech, but had quite a lot of Ham's old cities (actually mainly those of his now-smited vassal, Catherine), which put me in the top 2 population-wise. So the diplo opportunity was a spot of luck. I did have Qin on +3 trading fairness and forthrighteousness, mainly from simply gifting him 1000s of gold since he was ahead on tech. Switched to Bureaucracy (from Free Speech) to please him, and also to Hereditary Rule to please Ragnar. Ragnar was also Hinduism/Theocracy, so I bribed him into Organized Religion, sent some missionaries, and got him to change to Buddhism, which made him like me enough to vote for me on the final time (above). Didn't think of liberating a city, but will know for next time.

Anyway, diplo didn't work out, so I passed the Free Religion resolution in the hope that people would like each other a bit less and cancel their defensive pacts. No such luck. It was a very corporation-y end game. I had Creative Constructions, which was pretty useful, but it looked certain that Huayna was going to win Cultural.

However by now my extra land area had given me the biggest industrial and tech base, and by ignoring military I was able to get the space ship built, but it looked like it would be too late since Huayna had been building cultural stuff and already had 2 Legendary cities, plus Ollantaytambo on 70k (out of 75k). So the final 30 or so turns were spent on 100% Spy, producing 2000 points per turn, all directed at Huayna, with about 10 spies in his city, supporting revolts every turn. First time I've used this strategy, as I haven't normally used spies for much other than scouting about, and nicking technologies after sprouting a Great Spy early on. It worked a treat, so I was pleased with myself for thinking this up (desperate times...). Was up to -12 with Huayna for spies caught causing trouble, and he eventually cancelled all his deals with me, but there was still nothing he could do about it.

With 3 turns to victory, Qin launched a last ditch comedy invasion with a huge stack of modern armor/mobile artillery/stealth bombers etc and pwned one of my cities, but of course he'd left it far too late and I claimed a hard-fought space-race victory. (Monarch difficulty / K-mod / Epic Speed / PerfectWorld_2 map)
 
Others gave you an idea of why already, but i think this screenie may be interesting for you:
Spoiler :


What does this mean..leaders on the same peaceweight number (or at least close) always start games with liking each other already. On the right side you can see peaceful AIs, who are always hated by warmongers but like each other too ;)

HC and Qin are both on 2, so they have maximum respect for each other in every game.
If your mod does not show these starting relations (in BAT i see "a first impression is a lasting one"), you will not be aware that in reality Qin might be +15 or +16 in your example with HC.

Peaceweight also explains why certain AIs always do better with relations, JC, Sally or Justi are in the middle and can make friends on both sides while Lincoln will never be liked by Ragnar.
 
I wondered what that First Impression thing was when I was on BAT. What does Warmonger Respect come up as, anyone?
 
So in this context 'warmonger' does not mean 'has been observed declaring war in this game' but rather 'is one of the cluster of leaders in positions 0-4 on the above chart'? And is an invisible diplo bonus that is added to an 'I'm naturally (un)friendly' modifier?

Hmm. This explains why sometimes a +4 gift of Alphabet is enough to get a missionary into Toku's borders, and sometimes I need to export freebies for a while.
 
I think BULL shows some of these modifiers, or used to, so if you have it installed or run BAT, you should see a bit more.
 
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