New tech tree

fulano said:

Here's the completed techinfos.xml! I think I got all the bugs out but I'm sure more will be spotted.

I will now go through and edit <advisor> and <flavors>.

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Great!

fulano said:

I am going to make up to the third column findable in goodie huts unless someone has a better idea. Maybe only the general techs should be findable in goodie huts?

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Well, as is space wrecks occasionally give a (relatively early) tech, so I should stick with that for now.

fulano said:

Also, I think most of the hyper-advanced techs are pretty accurate on what they should do except for physics and force fields. In MoO2 they make ships stronger. I'd like it to add prestige to all new units but I don't know how that could be done. Any ideas on what to put there?

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Frankly, I don't know either - except grant additional promotions/prestige. I'm not sure how a repeating tech can do that, really.

Suggestions anyone?

Okay, because there are SO many techs now editing the <advisor> and <flavor> values will take a long time, so I'm going to go a little slower on that project and start editing the Civ4BuildingInfos.xml to change it to the new tech names so I can feel like I'm doing something more productive to keep me motivated on this project.

EDIT: I'm also changing <iAITradeModifier> to at least 10 on all the military techs so the AI will be slightly less willing to trade them, so it's a little more like MoO2

That was a lot easier than I thought, to finish the building infos.

I the only file I dread is the promotion file, because of it's size. I can probably finish editing the files myself though.

Editing the rest of the files will not be long but I probably won't be done until next Thursday (the 19th). I'm going to visit my family this weekend so little will get done then.

I'll wait until I edit a few more XML's before I upload another file for you to see. Now that the buildings are in the tech tree it makes a lot more sense, so if you want to see what is happening here you can download the attached file and look at it.

I wish I had a program that can search and replace text in all the files in a folder. Anybody heard of anything like that? I could clean up a lot of stuff in this mod with such a tool and it would make my changes go a lot faster if I could change all files at once.

EDIT (Feb/17/10): I removed the attached file because it is no longer needed

I don't know of a utility to edit files simultaneously (?), but XML Marker is rather good as it includes an Error Warner: http://symbolclick.com/download.htm

I'll check the file later, as it's getting late now...

Anyway: good job!

The new MoO2 tech tree is done!

I'm sure there are lots of bugs to work out, I only briefly tested it for about 100 turns.

I still need to finish editing the flavors, but that isn't as important, what I'd like to see is people testing it! Just put the files in the appropriate place. They all are in the XML folder. If you find any bugs please report them here.

Here is a summery of some of the other changes:

Great!

fulano said:

I also caught small bugs here and there in the units and promotions and text file and fixed those. (like the stealth III ship not being able to upgrade to stealth IV ship).

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Never noticed that - hardly use advanced stealth ships myself.

fulano said:

I made the astral gate piece a temporary version of the dimensional portal until more is done on that. I'm sure it needs balanced as well so if you test the space victory let me know how easy or hard it was.

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I don't think the Astral Gate pieces are needed if I can get the wormholes to work again. (Unless an Astral/Dimensional Gate actually leads to Antaran space, ofcourse.)

fulano said:

Trading across space is enabled, it doesn't work between your own stars but it does work with neighbors.

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That's odd. Maybe ask deanej, he got it to work with Star Trek mod.

fulano said:

I made the battleship free to research like it is in MoO2.

There is a tech for doomstar construction, we just need to add the unit

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OK. Shouldn't be that much of a problem.

fulano said:

Most of the II and III versions of ships were just stuck on the Hyper-Advanced physics tech for now. I don't know where to put them and personally I'd rather they be removed and more focus shifted to the ship promotion system.

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Not quite following: they represent bigger (and better) versions; can't they just be fit in? (The upside is: less custom models will be needed, but still...) I mean the mod's not meant to be MOO while playing Civ, just a MOO-style mod; it doesn't exactly have to match MOO II (plus there's MOO and MOO III).

Anyway, if you need feedback, I suggest attaching it to post #1 (and keep that updated!).

I've played up to turn 300 so far and everything's working great that I've seen. The AI really surprised me and was researching all kinds of stuff, I thought it would just stick with the cheapest every time. They also trade a ton which makes their score look huge because they have tons of useless techs. I wonder about balancing the score to give more points for higher techs.

I really like how this balances the game, it feels much better. It takes longer to get new techs which gives you time to actually put them to use rather than flying through the tech tree like before.

For some reason I didn't think of putting the ships in their own techs like everything else is... I'll get places for them all. I totally agree that we should improve upon MoO2's gameplay.

That actually could be the bonus from hyper advanced physics is to enable new upgrades of ships. It wouldn't be repeatable but I doubt many people would play the game that long.

I still want to mess with the flavors and try to get the AI to stop building so many invasion ships and infantry too. They'd be much more effective if that were the case.

Good point about editing the first post, I'll go fix that! I'll also resume work on fixing flavors, then we'll see where I go from there. I only have about six weeks of break left before I won't have much time to work on this for a while.

Good to know.

fulano said:

I still want to mess with the flavors and try to get the AI to stop building so many invasion ships and infantry too. They'd be much more effective if that were the case.

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Actually I was thinking of replacing Invasion Ships with Transports (ideally Marines/Armor/Robo-Warriors then need to be transported to another system, like in Babylon 5 mod; problem is, they then need to be immovable - as in B5 - or limited to move 1 only).

Anyway, I'll check the new tech tree in post #1 ASAP.

EDIT: The zipfile itself doesn't contain installation instructions. Also, without the proper mod folders I'm afraid people may not know where to put the xml files (in XML, but in what subfolders?). Personally I can't place the Civ4ReligionInfo, as there seems to be no original for it to replace...* So, for feedback purposes it might be better to preplace the files in the properly named subfolders, then all you need to do is to put it in the MOO2civ folder - after making a backup of the XML subfolder, that is!

*Nevermind, found it in GameInfo...

JEELEN said:

Actually I was thinking of replacing Invasion Ships with Transports (ideally Marines/Armor/Robo-Warriors then need to be transported to another system, like in Babylon 5 mod; problem is, they then need to be immovable - as in B5 - or limited to move 1 only).

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Oh my goodness that would be incredible I didn't even think of actually using transports to move the infantry types! That would be perfect!

Can infantry be changed to a new class of unit separate from spaceships?
Or maybe! All ships don't have the ability to capture cities (like helicopters) and you would just have to move the transport on the star you want to capture and unload the troops. I dunno, but I like the idea.

JEELEN said:

The zipfile itself doesn't contain installation instructions. Also, without the proper mod folders I'm afraid people may not know where to put the xml files (in XML, but in what subfolders?). Personally I can't place the Civ4ReligionInfo, as there seems to be no original for it to replace...* So, for feedback purposes it might be better to preplace the files in the properly named subfolders, then all you need to do is to put it in the MOO2civ folder - after making a backup of the XML subfolder, that is!

Click to expand...

You are right about that and I really wanted to fix that when I posted, but I was out of time. Hopefully I'll get to it... at the latest mid next week but hopefully today.


Furthermore I noticed bombers and fighters SHOULD be able to be upgraded according to the XML file but for whatever reason the game won't upgrade them. Weird.

Weird indeed. I definitely remember upgrading fighters/bombers. You mean w/the new tech tree they won't? (Haven't noticed it yet, but havne't progressed beyond turn 120, so...)

As for the Transport idea: I know in B5 you can load/unload (non-movable) PDS units, but I've only seen it with uninhabited systems. As said, the problem - I think - is they have to have at least 1 move to be able to attack/defend. And for not capturing systems: Stealth units can't capture/defend systems, so that'd be perfect (without the actual stealth that is). so at present I don't yet know how to do it, but it should be possible.

Ah, about an update on the tech tree: currently there are all these identically named groupings (so you research Advanced Engineering, Advanced Engineering, Advanced Engineering), but they're actually different. How about renaming them by giving them a number (Adv. Eng. I, Adv. Eng. II, Adv. Eng III). They'd still be the same category (Advanced Engineering, just I-II-III added.)

JEELEN said:

Weird indeed. I definitely remember upgrading fighters/bombers. You mean w/the new tech tree they won't? (Haven't noticed it yet, but havne't progressed beyond turn 120, so...)

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Okay, I thought I saw somebody say they won't upgrade, I don't think I could upgrade them but I'm not positive on that, I'll check it more.

JEELEN said:

Ah, about an update on the tech tree: currently there are all these identically named groupings (so you research Advanced Engineering, Advanced Engineering, Advanced Engineering), but they're actually different. How about renaming them by giving them a number (Adv. Eng. I, Adv. Eng. II, Adv. Eng III). They'd still be the same category (Advanced Engineering, just I-II-III added.)

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I agree with that, and it should be done eventually, but it would be a lot of work. Especially because I want to keep using the txt_keys so other languages can be supported if someone comes around and re-translates things.

I will rename the techs once I get the flavors done.


Another question:
Somebody said it would encourage the AI to research ahead more if I use a higher <aiWeight> on each tech, like increasing by 50s. I actually think the AI did pretty well currently. It seems where I corrected the flavors the AI's were focusing on things better than where the flavors weren't changed.
Let me know if you think the AI needs more improvements on how it uses this tech tree. I just used espionage to tell what they are researching.

one more thing:
Have you thought about increasing the bonus for stronger weamons? Would that work? Like fusion 10%, mass driver 15%, neutron blaster 15%, graviton 20%?
Currently many of the promotions are useless to research because there is no way to build a ship that would use them.

Anyway, I need to go see about this trip my wife and I are planning. We might be kept home due to snow. If we do go I won't check this until next week.

fulano said:

one more thing:
Have you thought about increasing the bonus for stronger weamons? Would that work? Like fusion 10%, mass driver 15%, neutron blaster 15%, graviton 20%?

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On the same subject, there could be some ways to make the weapons different from each other like in MoO2's. Currently many of them are just +% strength with different names.
Although they all had the same firing range MoO2 weapons had some variation in effective range. Mass based weapons had no damage dissipation from range and plasma based weapons had twice the range dissipation*.
So to mimic this range difference, in addition to the regular +% strength bonus:
all regular beam weapons could be given 1 first strike change
all mass weapons, (mass driver, gauss cannon, disrupter) could be given 1 first strike and less of a +% strength bonus than regular weapons around the same tech level.
and all plasma weapons, (fusion beam, plasma cannon, mauler device) would have no first strike but a higher +% strength bonus than regular weapons at the same tech level.

*Interesting side note: The increased range dissipation did not actually work in MoO2! I was surprised when I heard it but I did testing myself and it was true. So to make the plasma weapons actually short range like they're supposed to be, I modded the game so they couldn't use heavy mount.

Minor Annoyance said:

On the same subject, there could be some ways to make the weapons different from each other like in MoO2's.

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I was totally about to start a new thread on the subject of promotion tweaks. Actually I think I'm going to do that now.

Good idea, both of you.

(And I hope you have a bon voyage, fulano!)

JEELEN said:

(And I hope you have a bon voyage, fulano!)

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Oh ya, I should mention that idea was canceled because of snow.

That's too bad... (Actually, over here people are beginning to complain about the snow - kind of ridiculous since we hardly have had any, compared to other countries...)

See post #1.

I just zipped up the entire XML folder in case I change any other files. It also includes the origional XML files for those who want to undo the tech tree changes. Is this okay or do you think it would be better to just include the changed files like you attached above?

No, sure, that's fine. (I'm removing the last zipfile then, as it's now redundant.)

v1.1b
-Added first strikes and modified the weapon promotions
-fixed more bugs, like overlaping technologies

v1.0b
-Made gold production rate 50% (that's how it is in MoO2, let me know if that's bad)
-Fixed stealth III ship not being able to upgrade to stealth IV ship
-Made the astral gate piece a temporary version of the dimensional portal (needs balanced unless actual portal gets made)
-Trading across space is enabled, it doesn't work between your own stars but it does work with neighbors.
-Removed the battleship I and destroyer I prereq tech (like in Moo2)
-Added tech for doomstar construction, we just need to add the unit
-Stealth promotions were renamed to MoO2 techs and put in tech tree (they still work the same.)
-Cruisers were put in the torpedo techs.
-Caught other small bugs here and there in the units, promotions and text file. (can't remember what)

Good show. I noticed credits flow a bit more easily with the new tech tree, but I'm not sure if that's a good thing. Perhaps set it at 25%? (I kind of liked having to really finetune budget with the previous version. But maybe other people are in favour of this change.) Also, once you get an empire going credits tend to be less of an issue, as income/research grows exponentially. (I was actually thinking of increasing cost of ships and midterm techs.)