The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #16 Siam

This was some of the best dirt I've ever played on.

Right up there with DCL 6 / Byzantium and the ICLs with Brazil & Vikings.

It also has some of the weakest AI play I've ever seen. I got every single wonder I wanted. Without exception.

Thanks for the fun map, Budweiser. FWIW I also enjoyed the Austria / Tundra map, so keep 'em coming.
 
T310 tourism victory, took way too long for the world congress to be founded. I think I could have gotten a DV or SV before T270 but I decided CV early on and neglected science/city-states. Definitely going to stick to 3 cities unless there's a legit good 4th city location/

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Attila screwed me so many times by DoW me(4 times, each time I flicked him away easily), pillaging my trade routes to Portugal who seemed to have more culture than the rest of the civs combined. Got my religion to pass easily as WF was the other option and all the civs voted for it. Went Freedom(only one) and tried to enacted it as world ideology but no go, then Askia came in and started using a GP to convert all my cities so I denounced him which was followed by everyone denouncing except for Attila(ironically). Had to use 4 GM on Portugal, the rest were automatic with no real effort. Wonders and Policies can be seen in last image.

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The start is obviously amazing, and I considered going for a cultural victory. But I've been getting bored of turtling, and starting with amazing dirt seemed like a good time to learn how to fight wars properly. I began by going Liberty with one-city Pyramids t41 into the free settler to grab the Petra spot/FoY on t42. Popped out another settler to drop my third and final non-puppet city of the game on t54, then started spamming CBs. Atilla founded a city close to me that was an easy place to start gaining XP on my composites. Razed that city and took Attila's Court on t87. I also finished the Oracle on t87.

I then went north, where Pocatello had been getting he face kicked in by Caesar. Caesar was however doing a terrible job of siegeing Moson Kahni. I DoWed Pocatello and took his capital in about 3 turns, t107. The other Shoshone cities were Roman colonies now, so Pocatello was out of the game. At this point I decided to settle down for a couple turns and crank out some more units/build up some infrastructure/upgrade my CBs to XBs. At some point along here I had finished LIberty and planted my great scientist, and hardbuilt Petra on t121. I then started filling out Honor.

However, Ashurnibipal and Caesar teamed up to 2v1 DoW, denying me my respite. Ashurnibipal sent a couple of siege towers and pikemen which I easily cleaned up, but the difficult terrain around his cities made it a waste of my time to go for anything other than his capital. Caesar was spamming legions, but my biggest problem was trying to fight with my XBs in the forests between Rome and Moson Kahni. Rough terrain and particularly forests are no good for archers, though Siam's elephants are amazing. Eventually I killed enough legions and ballistae that Caesar gave me one of the cities he stole from Pocatello. Ashurnibipal also made white peace with me at this time.

I used the 10 turns to build roads to move my troops out of the forest and within striking distance of Rome. 10 turns later, I bribe Ashurnibipal to DoW Caesar. I wait 2 turns for most of Caesar's troops to move out of defensive positions to counter this new threat, then DoWed Caesar, sieged Rome and took it in a few turns, t153. Assyria had taken Caesar's only other city (not including the two I razed) so this put him out of the game. I finished Notre Dame on t158, giving me some much needed happiness.

I immediately DoWed Ashurnibipal, and was easily able to take Assur on t162 since the terrain was not an issue. I made peace with him since sieging his other cities would have been a very annoying slog through forests and marshes. I then marched straight over to Haile and declared war. I killed some of his troops, and he gave me a city for 10 turns of peace. I moved my troops up to the border, and 10 + a few turns later I had Addis Ababa, t185. Haile still wouldn't give me peace for some reason, so I took his last city and put him out of the game. I took a few turns to move my troops over to Maria and then declared war on her. At this time the World Congress was founded, as Songhai and Portugal finally met each other. I took Lisbon t205 and traded embassies and open borders with Askia to scout him for the best place to land my invasion force. I also sold him 8 luxuries for full price, since he had no knowledge of my misdeeds. He was at least very happy for a while before he realized my intentions.

I dropped my range/logistics XBs and drill/medic cavalry on the beach north of him that was uninhabited land. I attacked him and quickly took Gao on t224. The artillery in the picture only got to fire twice in the whole game, as I had just teched dynamite and it took a while for the artillery to swim across the ocean. I had also just researched Rifling, but had no territory there to upgrade my musketmen.



Previously the vast majority of my domination victories have been turtling until flight, then using GWBs/bombers to take over the world. This is my fastest Immortal domination victory by about 50 turns or so, and I'm pretty happy with it. The main thing that slowed me down was trying to get through the forest between capitals 2 and 3, as you can tell by the capital turn numbers above.

The Liberty Pyramids pillage/repair is extremely strong and I think my victory would have been much slower without it. Being able to manage enemy city bombard targeting with slightly damaged melee units is essential to not getting your CBs/XBs roasted by ranged fire before they have 3 range. In the future all of my early domination victories will certainly involve the Pyramids.

I went left side of Liberty to full Liberty, left side of Honor to full Honor, then the left side of Commerce, and that is where my game ended. However, I'm wondering if it is worth getting the settler + worker in Liberty, then going left side of Honor before finishing the two trees. I really like the +50% XP policy in Honor, and a later golden age is usually worth more, but maybe it's not worth delaying the great scientist. What do the experienced warmongers here think? Or would it even be better to just open Liberty for the Pyramids/free worker for 1 turn repair and then just go straight honor/commerce?
 

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Detailed write up. Culture victory on turn 210 with 21 wonders :p
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We go west with the warrior to see more salts so I move on the western hill next to the two salts. That position will circle everything I can see.
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Starting stuffs:
Ruins: Mining, Pop, Map, Culture, Archery, Gold, Pop
Capital: Scout Scout Monument Scout Shrine Settler x2 Granary ToA Library Worker NC

My warrior sees a cute Shoshone worker which shall be enslaved ! We also open tradition, capital is very strong and we look limited in space. Also I plan to play culture which is very capital centric. I see some very strong desert location in the east after that so maybe Petra GE would have been a good option too.
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We then find FoY ! Map is very limited on space though, shoshone west, tundra south, mountain north, huns east.
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Huns first settler (pretty early one at that) is going north, maybe we have a shot at making a city in the eastern desert.
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I capture a worker from Brussels, I'm not very happy to anger a cultural CS but I don't see any other close CS. Meanwhile I chop the settlers. Thanks to 2 early tech ruins and the area not needing masonry/trapping, we will probably get a very fast philosophy. I'm able to steal a second shoshone worker before making peace.
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Si-Satchanalai is founded in the desert in the east, it can be a decent city and I have hope to make Petra there on Immortal. We'll probably immediately DoW an AI that has a desert capital. We'll have to make sure Atilla is occupied.
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MuangSlang is built next to FoY. Building it closer to the spices would have asked for too much gold. So Spices will be kept for maybe another city. I'll give a try for a late ToA, sometimes it can be built below 50 and the GL is still not built yet.
On turn42 I have my Pantheon. Earth Mother is intuitevely what I wanted to pick but after counting tiles desert folklore is better, there are a lot of desert tiles in both my expansions.
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ToA is finished on turn 52. We continue on our way to get all libraries. To bad eastern city doesn't have forest to chop. Looks like we are in some sort of continent with 6 civs and few CS. None of the known civs appear to be on desert. On turn 65 we get our great prophet. Desert folklore gives us 7 faith ! Siam was apparently buddhist so we found that. I pick Tithe and Religious community. I bribe Attila a few turns later.
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We finish NC on turn 71. As none of the AI have taken tradition that I know of, hanging gardens should be an easy pick. Alright Petra is launched, 27 turns :D We also finish Tradition on turn 79 and hanging gardens are finished turn 80. Time to pump out some archers which I will then quickly upgrade to get rid of the Huns menace. I adopt Patronage on turn 90 and Petra is finished turn 92.
I declare to huns on turn 98. He has crappy army so 6CB and a pike probably can do it. I reach education on turn 100 exactly but I have to hard build the wats. Our second great prophet on turn 101 gets us divine inspiration and religious text.
We take Attila's court on turn 111 and since I got denounced for some reason (I take one city and now I'm a menace tothe world ?). It's such a crappy city I'm disappointed. Only has a Library :(
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Meanwhile I wonder spam ! Chichen itza T105 Oracle T111 Borobodur T118 Hagia Sophia T119 Mausoleum T127 (LOL) We meet Songhai turn 126 and get Te-Moak in a Peace deal. Time to go into a more peaceful play style. All this faith and religious wonder allows us to spread the love around.
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We fix our happiness issues on turn 137 by finishing Notre Dame. The wondering continues with a 141 Sistine Chapel, Pisa T149, Machu Pichu T150 (what are the AI doing), Taj Mahal T151, Globe Theater T155, Uffizi T157. We finally reach scientific theory on turn 158
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The forbidden Palace is finished on turn 161. Looks like the AI is really behind on this map. Although two of them are almost dead. I get archeology on that turn also and start making archeologists. I rush Eiffel Tower to free up some time.
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Later I use a GW for a treaty to speed up the acquisition of the aethetics tree and I really could use that golden age there.
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The end is just about making more archeologists while getting museums, more wonders and hotels up. I get Porcelain Tower T195 Broadway T197 Red Fort T203 Statue of Liberty T209 . Around T200 I start to bulb my way up to Radar. I don't think I need Internet and I would have to wait a long time before having enough GS to get there. I reach Radar on turn 205 with the Rationalism finisher.
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I buy 2 airports. I need 3 GM to win with 218tourism so 5000faith since I made the guild too late and a natural one would take too long. I get 2 quick settlers because selling my big cities is too ugly :p I then buy my 3 GMs and GM bomb portugal and ethiopia for a win at turn 210 with 21 wonders :D
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Isnt it funny that a CV wins pretty much the same time as a Dom V?
 
Like I said, I was so sloppy. A careful player can get a REALLY fast DomV on this map, I'm sure. 20-30 turns faster, minimum.
 
Knowing the map (which is almost like perfect play the first time through), how fast could someone get a science win on this one?
 
Well I'd say on average around 250-260 perhaps?

Not counting the likes of Acken, natch :p
 
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Well, FoY was a nice surprise... the land is a bit cramped and liberty Shoshone kinda took the spot I wanted, but I managed 3 huge cities in the end.
ToA, HG, Petra, Great wall, Oracle, Hagia, MoH, in no particular order.. ended up with 26(!) WWs.
As usual, no bulbs, no bribes, no bombs, and no conquest allowed (only liberation)


Shoshone's huge borders kinda working against them... if they send a worker out into the 3rd ring, I can take it with impunity. Settled right here (did not know FoY was there until my borders reached it!); I wanted desert for Petra and be two tiles away from mountain for certain WWs. I just took one worker and made peace (no need to beat him down too much :lol: this is on immortal)


t80 and so far Atilla has not shown any interest in coming for me (I have archers blocking the river just in case anyway) great wall built in 6 turns! Crazy strong game so far despite getting forward settled.


War... what a pathetic attack force he sent...


He offered peace without his horse archers firing a single shot.... lame.


I had planned to build twin coastal cities and make a canal city so cargo ships can reach but this stupid piece of ice ruined my idea. So I had to make do with land caravans. I had all 6 routes be internal.


Does he really think his forces stand a chance against XBs...?


Hunnic war #2 ended.


Meanwhile Assyria had taken Te-Moak and Agaidika (after crippling Rome) from Shoshone, so I DoW'd and liberated those cities back (Assyria is kind of an ass and I didn't want him as a neighbor)


War#3 ended.


War#4... Atilla simply does not quit does he?... (I already had frigates! What was he thinking attacking so close to the coast...)


Uh... well war kinda defines who you are, Atilla, but sure... I'm sure someone will pay me a good price for that city...


Got Volunteer Army and Atilla never dared rear his ugly head again. Good riddance.


Oops... I won... (didn't keep track...) Here, I haven't even finished getting everything yet...


Complete dominance--no GM concerts required, if they wanna see how awesome my music is they should send their tourists over to my lands to visit! (this is MY kind of domination victory, you dominate their people without firing a single bullet) :lol:


Reason I played on is because I wanted to see if the required culture for the next SP would go into 5 digits, or would it simply max out at 9999 like some games do... it seems it's possible to get into the 10k culture range for an SP cost.

Of course I could've won a diplo V probably several dozens of turns earlier if I had just bulbed my GSs (when the world leader vote came I simply just did not take the DV)... (but seriously as a DC player when you play on immortal it's a disgrace to win by anything other than domination or culture... and you should give the AI some sort of handicap like not bulbing and not bribing :lol: )

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What happened to Rome and Assyria? I see they are no longer with us in your victory screen. Did you not wish to liberate them?
 
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What happened to Rome and Assyria? I see they are no longer with us in your victory screen. Did you not wish to liberate them?

I only wish to liberate those on my "nice" list. The naughty ones (who've caused me many headaches in past games with their backstabby-ness and overall meanness) can stay in Hades. :lol:
 
I only wish to liberate those on my "nice" list. The naughty ones (who've caused me many headaches in past games with their backstabby-ness and overall meanness) can stay in Hades. :lol:

Fair enough! I certainly would not want to liberate a few certain civs myself.
 
My nice list has two names on it. And one of them mainly because she lets me ogle her and speaks Greek with a beautiful accent with the Hagia Sophia in the background :D
 
T310 tourism victory, took way too long for the world congress to be founded. I think I could have gotten a DV or SV before T270 but I decided CV early on and neglected science/city-states. Definitely going to stick to 3 cities unless there's a legit good 4th city location/

Spoiler :
Attila screwed me so many times by DoW me(4 times, each time I flicked him away easily), pillaging my trade routes to Portugal who seemed to have more culture than the rest of the civs combined. Got my religion to pass easily as WF was the other option and all the civs voted for it. Went Freedom(only one) and tried to enacted it as world ideology but no go, then Askia came in and started using a GP to convert all my cities so I denounced him which was followed by everyone denouncing except for Attila(ironically). Had to use 4 GM on Portugal, the rest were automatic with no real effort. Wonders and Policies can be seen in last image.



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I solved the Attila problem quickly in my game. All he had was his cap and a carpet of trash units when he attacked me about T100. I killed his units, captured a settler in the desert near my Petra expo, and took his cap and didn't suffer many big diplo hits even though this eliminated him.

However, if you take a couple of expos and then eliminate an AI the denouncements come at you from my experience.
 
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I solved the Attila problem quickly in my game. All he had was his cap and a carpet of trash units when he attacked me about T100. I killed his units, captured a settler in the desert near my Petra expo, and took his cap and didn't suffer many big diplo hits even though this eliminated him.

However, if you take a couple of expos and then eliminate an AI the denouncements come at you from my experience.

Yeah, I probably should have pushed him after beating his initial attack but I had a 4-5 tech lead on him so I thought he wouldn't come back again. But he just kept coming lol, did make a nice profit off of the multiple peace deal(6GPT the first time, 3 luxuries the 2nd time and 40+GPT the 3rd and 4th times) so it wasn't the end of the world minus the loss tourism modifier to
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Portugal
(culture runaway in my game) from pillaged trade routes.
 
Knowing the map (which is almost like perfect play the first time through), how fast could someone get a science win on this one?

I've finished my game to answer your question and got a Turn221 science victory. With some of the biggest cities I ever had.

If only there was room for a fifth I'm fairly confident it would have helped since this is without observatories. But there was no room for a fifth. With it I think someone can reach 210-215.

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Used my freedom strategy.

Edit: Aw sorry for triple post.
 
Acken,

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Where are your troops? :D Huns did not bother you or you bribed them?

 
My nice list has two names on it. And one of them mainly because she lets me ogle her and speaks Greek with a beautiful accent with the Hagia Sophia in the background :D

Funny, she is one of my favorites as well! Why could that be?:mischief:
 
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