The Deity Challenge Line-up #20 - Spain - Valentine day Resurrected

Acken · Feb 25, 2015

No I don't know which is better, I've just seen some good players use it like Ironfighter on the last deity gotm. I also usually chose autocracy. Also I meant artillery and above domv. So industrial I guess.

I sometimes Oxford Dynamite if the gold is there to upgrade canons/trebs to artilleries. I preffer (if possible) to get Industrialisation first and build 3 factories before dynamite. That's what I did in the india dcl I believe, Industrialisation, factories, prebuilt trebuchets and oxford dynamite.

phillipwyllie · Feb 25, 2015

tombakerwho said:
...I use Order when the AI is unfriendly, has no money, or when I have been aggressive mid-game...

I'm no expert at SV but for me it's the last SS part that causes the "problem".

Spoiler :

A question for those Order pickers, assuming you built Hubble in Madrid. How quick were you able to build the the SS parts?

stormtrooper412 · Feb 25, 2015

I went Order in DCL6 which has a similar terrain around the capital (so Petra+HG) and I had 334 hammers per turn with all SS modifiers and upgrades, so I'm assuming here would be around as much

Acken · Feb 25, 2015

Order uses its money to rushbuy +production buildings like hydroplants and nuclear plants and spaceship factories. You should get between 4 to 8 turns a part in a decent area. The purpose is often to build 4 or 5 and then just rush the last ones. You get a GE from the finisher so you can often buy one more with faith.

Order needs to reach Apollo faster than Freedom and will uses its GS faster to reach Apollo and Robotics. That's where freedom catches up in science, you are allowed more time to grow, build science and will use GS later. It often requires to get a couple of friends though.

stormtrooper412 · Feb 25, 2015

Either way, Mercantilism + Big Ben is a huge boost to both plans. If you go Order and have Skyscrapers on, you can fit all expos to build spaceship parts in 10-12 turns for less than 1000 gold, assuming you already have Factories and/or Hidro Plants, which is much easier to gather, whereas Freedom doesn't really need any production other than Apollo/Hubble but missing on either of the discounts still makes SS parts kind of expensive and you have to rely on having friends with deep pockets, which is never a safe bet

consentient · Feb 25, 2015

@Acken

Similar to the experiments you've done with reloads to test the same game Order vs. Freedom, I'd love to see if there was any noticeable difference Oxfording Dynamite vs. Industrialisation.

I'd like to know since I ALWAYS Oxford Dynamite, since I figured it allows for the most seamless warring. i.e. the period where Crossbows are not cutting the mustard is as short as possible.

Acken · Feb 25, 2015

Why would you oxford industrialization over dynamite ? Dynamite can be a 15turns tech without schools while indu would be around 8 turns. It's only logical to oxford dynamite in that case and not industrialization.

consentient · Feb 25, 2015

Acken said:
Why would you oxford industrialization over dynamite ? Dynamite can be a 15turns tech without schools while indu would be around 8 turns. It's only logical to oxford dynamite in that case and not industrialization.

Sorry I thought that was what you were suggesting in this quote:-

Acken said:
I sometimes Oxford Dynamite if the gold is there to upgrade canons/trebs to artilleries. I preffer (if possible) to get Industrialisation first and build 3 factories before dynamite.

But I re-read the next part and realised that it's quite clear and I'm a :-

That's what I did in the india dcl I believe, Industrialisation, factories, prebuilt trebuchets and oxford dynamite.

So forget what I wrote.

I will rephrase: is there anything that you would ever be tempted to use Oxford for when warmongering? Assume Pangaea and no unusual circumstances. So no Navigation necessary.

Whether or not you tech Ind'n before going to Dynamite (Oxford or not) is not my question. It's whether you would use Oxford for something else, ever?

Sorry for the confusion.

peddroelm · Feb 25, 2015

Acken said:
Why would you oxford industrialization over dynamite ? Dynamite can be a 15turns tech without schools while indu would be around 8 turns. It's only logical to oxford dynamite in that case and not industrialization.

- opens up autocracy (triple factory) with 2 free bonus policies if you do it fast enough ..
- opens up gating gun upgrade in case you need them desperately to survive or for assaulting some crucial high defense city ..

If not desperate for above, Oxfording artillery is probably the shortest path to victory ..

In my Zulu LP I went gatling first and payed for it, getting stuck for I don't remember how many turns against Shoshone great wall Comanche rider spam until I got artillery ..

In the next LP (America) I went artillery first and it went much smoother ..

Acken · Feb 25, 2015

I've used it for planes tech too flight and radar when it seemed I wasn't prepared to get dynamite. Electronics on a water map makes a lot of sense to oxford too.
I mean it's the same principle as bulbing schools, if you're not ready to buy/build them don't bulb. So oxfording dynamite makes sense only if you're ready to start production right now or upgrade canons. Also if you have no coal at all it may be a good idea to oxford radio then.

Shark Diver · Feb 25, 2015

Acken said:
Also if you have no coal at all it may be a good idea to oxford radio then.

How are you to know if you have coal or not if Oxfording Radio is still an option? Unless you are counting on a spy to get Industrialization, I consider this an either/or choice that has to be made before coal is revealed. Either you beeline Radio for quick ideology, or you beeline Industrialization and build factories for quick ideology. I don't see where either choice keeps the other open.

Acken · Feb 25, 2015

Well for domination like I said I enjoy getting industrialization first then dynamite then schools. So you'll know. If you get coal then geat, if you don't then maybe it will tell you want land to grab first and finally if you really have no options at least it gives you more time to make more canons I guess.

It certainly isn't ideal to go indu and reveal no coal but what can you do about it, getting Radio before Dynamite is a long detour and I feel getting dynamite first will make you miss too much on ideology.

Shark Diver · Feb 26, 2015

It certainly seems like the AI tends to beeline towards Industrialization, or at least some of them do. That means that you can usually trade for coal pretty easily if you don't have any. You can also save some $ to ally a CS that has coal if none of yours has any. Worst case, assuming you've done some pillaging, would be to send a quick settler/worker convoy to where there is coal.

The scenario where one, going for DomV, would actually Oxford Radio after finding no coal seems pretty rare, as I think it is far quicker to acquire your coal elsewhere than to spend the 20 or so turns detouring to Electricity (quicker if you choose to burn a GS or two). As pointed out earlier, the gap where Xbows are no longer useful to Arty's is a key.

But as your point is regarding DomV, where I have far less experience than you, I am not arguing….was just looking for clarification….which you gave.

Acken · Feb 26, 2015

Well you're right, I would avoid having to do that at all cost. It's just... a possibility.

Vaeal2004 · Feb 26, 2015

245 science victory. REALLY fun map although totally OP.

Spoiler :

adcarrymaokai · Feb 26, 2015

So this is basically an Immortal game because you start with pretty much a settler? Somebody posted a map in "Isabella ridiculousness" thread where you walked down for 5 turns and bumped into the Great Barrier Reef. It was also Deity, and I built the Great Library on t29 while having 2 expansions. Yeah, I am totally down for a piece of cake map like this. You basically get Lake Victoria at the start. Love. It.

consentient · Feb 26, 2015

adcarrymaokai said:
So this is basically an Immortal game because you start with pretty much a settler? Somebody posted a map in "Isabella ridiculousness" thread where you walked down for 5 turns and bumped into the Great Barrier Reef. It was also Deity, and I built the Great Library on t29 while having 2 expansions. Yeah, I am totally down for a piece of cake map like this. You basically get Lake Victoria at the start. Love. It.

It's a Valentine's Special. Just for fun. And really, there is no point in playing Spain if they don't have NW nearby. They are either god-tier or fairly mediocre with good UUs.

Like I said before, if you want a more balanced challenge, try the Germany map.

gunnerxtr · Feb 26, 2015

consentient said:
It's a Valentine's Special. Just for fun. And really, there is no point in playing Spain if they don't have NW nearby. They are either god-tier or fairly mediocre with good UUs.

Like I said before, if you want a more balanced challenge, try the Germany map.

He said he liked the map... seems like you are reading criticism into every post you come across on these boards.

Shark Diver · Feb 27, 2015

consentient said:
And really, there is no point in playing Spain if they don't have NW nearby. They are either god-tier or fairly mediocre with good UUs.

On normal speed/map, I completely agree. However, on bigger maps, which I used to love to play, Spain can be sooooo much fun to play when you had Marathon speed to slow down explorationprobably more of a Immortal level idea, but those really are more realistic if one cares about history.

Don't get me wrong.I'm addicted to DCL type maps and the few Immortal games I've played on Standard/Standard since converting mess with me due to timing differences.but Spain is fun in many scenarios.

I do luv me some Tercios.

consentient · Feb 27, 2015

gunnerxtr said:
He said he liked the map... seems like you are reading criticism into every post you come across on these boards.

For a lurker to make a point of saying this to me shows me that I ought to take notice. Perhaps many of you out there think I am excessively sensitive to criticism, and that could be true.

But then the flip side is that for my tenure as host, which ended with this map, I tried very hard to GIVE something to people, and it wasn't always appreciated. So maybe you could also say that there is a reason I am a little bit prickly.

Anyway, if everyone posted sub-T200 victories on this map I would concede it was unhealthily-easy, but only 3 players have done that, and the rest are normal finishing times. So again, hardly 'Immortal', or 'Emperor+' as this has been described. On this point I'm prickly because it's just inaccurate. A lot of people talked about difficulties with Cathy on this map. The terrain going down into the Chinese/Celtic peninsula certainly wasn't easy.

Anyway, thanks for your POV, but maybe if you were hosting and not lurking, you might possibly find you had a different one?

The Deity Challenge Line-up #20 - Spain - Valentine day Resurrected

Deity

Wannabe Deity

Peacemongering Turtlesaur

Deity

Peacemongering Turtlesaur

Domination!

Deity

Domination!

King

Deity

King

Deity

King

Deity

Chieftain

Emperor

Domination!

King

King

Domination!

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