Deity advise: boxed in Poland

I am trying to move up to deity. The DLC is really nice and I've read a lot of the maps, but they seem aimed at something a little above my level (although I completed the babylon OCC).

So, I rolled a small; deity small continents start as poland with what seemed to be a reasonable starting location (cow, sheep, stone, gems, 3xcrab). However, it quickly turned out the I was geographically challenged, with a small isthmus on which Ethiopia immediately founded a city leading to an expansionist shake. To the north, there is a good city location and a mediocre fishing village location:



So, my plan was to do a 2 city NC and then settle what seems to be an island east of the capital, and maybe the fishing village in the north depending on how good the island is. I hope that Shaka will leave me alone for a while as I am quite far away, so let's hope that Ethiopia can resist him for a while.

I took the fishing boat pantheon as it seemed that I would be quite maritime, even though it has the disadvantage of no immediate returns. Shaka has not founded a pantheon, so I could try to pacify him with religion, but I don't have a lot of faith going so that probably wouldn't work well. Ethiopia has the ranged bonus, so that is nice for the resistance.

Any tips on how to deal with this situation? Anything obvious I've done wrong already? Would you have settled a city near my archer to create a choke point, even though that would probably make me Shaka's target rather than Ethiopia?

No, nothing you have done obviously wrong from what I could tell. I'm not sure I would have opted for a city next to Shaka either. Poland is a really powerful Civ and you can still definitely win with only two cities. I would look for expansion on the island to the east (though it looks like you may not have room) or anything else nearby that's not right next to Shaka.

You could also take Yerevan as your third city. Doesn't look like a very good city however...

Tough game! Good luck!

peaceful might be tough with Shaka but you only have a 2-tile window to defend. Put a line of compbows behind the city and keep targeting melee units (3 behind the city, 1 in the city and the city attack can hold off a lot - plus one melee to plug up the tile beside the city). if you get a GG then plant him for added def and dmg.

you can also try some diplomacy and bribe him to war to keep him occupied. you can also war with Ethiopia to carve out a better landscape but that is risky if you arent DoF with Shaka. trade embassies with Ethiopia and explore some more. that is a tough area and at deity it looks somewhat unforgiving. a joint war with Ethiopia against Shaka could be ideal if youd both take some of his cities but the AI is notorious for putting no effort in actually joining that war.

good luck!

Thanks guys!

Played on to t124, plan worked out pretty well, had 2-city NC around t80 and managed to settle a decent city on the island. Finished trad and commerce until mercantilism, about to tech astro (although I don't have a mountain city) to open rationalism with the free SP.



As you can see, there is a decent city location on the island next to Jerusalem as well, so I dispatched my puny military to clear the barb camp (which they might actually have some trouble with).

Shaka and Ethiopia ended their war, with the capture or gifting of the city to my immediate S. I was pissed off because I did not want shaka as a neighbour but it turns out Shaka is razing it, so I'm tempted to send in a settler immediately and rebuild. I could even build a city on the W side (SE of the sheep) to create a nice choke point, and leave the sea resources to adwa, which I might be able to capture if shaka and Ethiopia go to war again?

Diplomacy is going decent, DoF with Sweden and Ethiopia, friendly but not DoF with Shaka. I hope to be able to avoid war with Shaka by keeping him occupied, although I guess I should buy some landsknechts (at 160 each) to slow down a possible attack. I should probably get x-bows after astro to improve defensive capability?

Edit: Yerevan is pretty crappy: gems (which I have already), 1 deer, and 1 fish, and a lot of tundra forest. Maybe I should have burnt it and planted a city on the 2E of the current location, which would have all that plus three sea resources? I guess I can still do that actually...

Edit2: Diplomacy question: I am now getting the red "you have a DoF with my enemy" from shake, presumably for my DoF with Ethiopia. I guess that might have been a diplomatic mistake, although the gold and RA's are a nice boon. My DoF has 7 turns remaining, and I guess I shouldn't renew it. My question is: should I denounce Ethiopia now? Should I denounce him in 7 turns?

vanatteveldt said:

...Should I denounce him in 7 turns?

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Most certainly in 7 turns time. You don't want the permanent backstab diplo modifier.

yeah, i'd basically cater to Shaka for as long as you can. either watch the icons each turn to see who he's friending/denouncing or check his screen every turn to familiarize yourself with his status. Surprise DoF screens from the AI are tempting but you need to keep in mind if any of that will anger him. It's better to survive and maybe ruin an RA with Ethiopia than to get steamrolled by him when he pops in to say something about feigning friendship when he DoWs. You dont have much military yet and he's got GW from Harar. But if he does indeed raze it, it should take GW with it making the ability to counter-attack much easier.

I see you are working on a settler and have some units to clear barbs below Jerusalem. the dirt down there looks terrible with flat deserts. I would not settle that just for the iron and lux unless you desperately need the iron. And I wouldnt forward settle on Shaka either. Not sure really where to take that settler since i cant see a lot of the board. resettling Harar's area could be a big diplo modifier. Very risky to keep him peaceful. I dont know his loyalty rating but he might break a DoF over it.

couple options, i guess. lot of coastal cities can mean fielding a stronger navy. maybe that iron will be good for more Frigates after Astro. You have the gold for upgrades so you could ramp up Galleas production on the way to Frigates. You could also save the gold for emergency Landsnechts but it looks like only 4 or 5 at 160g each but 60gpt will mean another every 3 turns. You can make 2 more cargo ships for more gpt or to speed up growth on the 4th iron city. Or keep trading with Shaka to keep him happy. I'd also find a way to friends/allies with the CSs, Yerevan particularly for the culture.

Hammer Rabbi said:

resettling Harar's area could be a big diplo modifier.

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I cannot tell if it is too close to an Ethiopian, but if Harar burns all the way down, I would want to be ready to plant 4th city on same island as Lodz, just across the straight from where Harar is now.

I see so many Impi dying as they jump into the water...

It seems like a good enough opportunity to try and use those narrow choke points to at least stalemate Shaka if you get attacked until you get your wings up and running by building forts around those mountains near where Harar once was. Alternatively, since there's not really much space around the cities, you can try and mount a spearhead attack after you wear him down

Thanks again guys!

Small update: Denounced Ethiopia after the DoF ended, shaka still friendly, still no DoF. Harar was indeed burned and I created a new town SE of the sheep. I though about a city next to Lodz but I figured the new city would form an even better choke point if Shaka decides to attack at some point.

The western city (on the Jerusalem island) has FP cotton, FP wheat, 2xstone, 2xfish, and iron. Do you consider that bad dirt? I figured it would grow quickly on the wheat and fish and work specialists, meanwhile providing for cotton and iron. Or does that penalize science/culture too much to be worth it? I settled on the cotton, maybe settling on the iron would have been better?

there's just too much feature-less desert for me to want to settle there.

vanatteveldt said:

Harar was indeed burned and I created a new town SE of the sheep.

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That is aggressive forward settling, 3 hexes from Kwadukuza. I thought you were trying to keep Shaka friends for a while? Yes, it forms a nice choke point, but I don’t think you are ready for the impi hoards quite yet. Keep us posted!

I settled on the cotton, maybe settling on the iron would have been better?

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I think the island is just okay, but how many cities are you founding? Did you go Liberty? I think you needed to found on desert. That island is so sparse that you cannot afford to give up a single tile.

vanatteveldt said:

Harar was indeed burned and I created a new town SE of the sheep.

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Not sure if that was the right call, you exposed it to many water tiles and the mountain only protects you from the one remaining direction

also yes, it's kinda considered forward settling as well

Hmm, maybe you guys are right, I had the feeling that it would be good to grab a couple more cities, and I wanted to prevent shaka from settling in that vicinity. Maybe I should have skipped the island and settled in the ex-Harar vicinity more conservatively.

Flying out for a week (and laptop's too old to Civ), so will be a bit before an update. Thanks so far for the advice!