ChevalierdeJstn
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2010
- Messages
- 60
Having mentioned how horrible I think the design of this game is, I actually want to sing some praises. Because...I am seriously falling in love with this AI!
I've read a number of the threads complaining about broken AI and I dunno...I think maybe it's just WAY WAY TRICKIER than we think. Case in point:
About 1750AD I'm through 2 social policies and close to a third (yea I know I suck, that's not the point. First time at this difficulty level mkay?) I've slapped Ramses down hard, because I thought I wanted Memphis (a port city which has been pretty useless actually - embarkation is...weird.) Running 4 cities and 4ish puppets. (I play a lot of succession games off-forum and take copious notes...It ticks me off that I can't alt-tab between Civ 5 and other programs anymore without crashing the game. I'm choosing to blame Steam for this, since I despise Steam anyways. And yes I can't remember the names or how many puppet cities I have. They are the drunk-dial girlfriends of cities in Civ 5.)
Anyways so of course I'm getting a big chunk of my culture-per-turn from city states, especially Florence (on our continent) and I'm also relatively dependent on maritime states (including Venice on our continent) for extra food to run specialists. I'm super-friendly with everyone in the world (Montie even gives me stuff for free because he's afraid of me) and I've been running trades left and right, especially Iron which I like to give away to whoever is fighting wars against the stronger AIs. (What ME aid and abet the enemy? Nuh uh!"
Anyways. What does my Good Buddy(TM?) Songhai do but attack Venice. I immediately ask him to stop, and he does - "Whoops sorry we didn't know they were your allies, sorry, sorry." 5 turns or so later what does he do but attack Florence. "Whoops sorry my bad, sorry, didn't know you were protecting them, I'll stop, sorry."
NOW sneaky bandit, what's he done? Totally ticked off all the city states that's what! So THEY declare all out war on Songhai. Every city state in the WORLD declares war on Songhai. Well what's he supposed to do except take over Venice (MY FOOD) and Florence (MY CULTURE)? They attacked HIM after all. He would be happy to stop fighting them since I ask, but they've declared all-out war on him and there is no mechanic for the player to ask city states to stop warring.
This is like, so totally awesome, I want to hug somebody. This was EXACTLY what the AI needed to do to stop my culture advance. And he played it exactly like a human player might - "What me? I didn't declare war, I just signed 3 pacts of secrecy, gifted units to their mortal enemy, and demanded 300 gold for nothing, I mean really, I don't understand why [insert civ] want to go to war with me?" SO COOL!
Now, admittedly I have rifles and artillery and Songhai has pikemen, and Hiawatha is jumping at the gate to get in on the smackdown action. So it doesn't take long for me to decimate Songhai (yea thanks Hiawatha you snooze you lose) and liberate my citystate buddies. Still, this was EXACTLY what I feared (why I made a point to build some military capability) and was IMO the best choice the AI could make to stymie my plans at this stage. Had Siam (my real rival, on the other continent) joined in I would have been done for...still, that would have smacked of cheating since I've really managed to keep Siam and Songhai apart from each other and there is really no reason for them to ally (Siam, of course, is allies with a number of city states as well.)
Anyways, I just want to say, unlike everybody else I've read on this forum I think the Civ 5 AI is awesome! While playing I still wish I had the designers sitting next to me so I could punch them in the face repeatedly for all the insultingly stupid design flub-ups they've made, but the AIs actions go a long, long ways towards making this game actually fun for me. I am really loving it.
I also expect to lose this game, as Siam is running away and I think I am going to have to nuke him. I could easily win the game but the point was to achieve a cultural victory and I think if I nuke Siam that's going out the window. Still, with what seemed like some extremely smart play on the AIs part in this game, it's actually been a ton of fun despite all my complaining about the interface and design (none of which I retract). I DO think this game is fixable, I'm just still pissed that I paid $50 for what was essentially a beta test version. Dear Firaxis: next time I will spend $10 for a used copy of your game, and you will get no money from me, because I don't trust you to release a workable first version. Congratulations!
I've read a number of the threads complaining about broken AI and I dunno...I think maybe it's just WAY WAY TRICKIER than we think. Case in point:
About 1750AD I'm through 2 social policies and close to a third (yea I know I suck, that's not the point. First time at this difficulty level mkay?) I've slapped Ramses down hard, because I thought I wanted Memphis (a port city which has been pretty useless actually - embarkation is...weird.) Running 4 cities and 4ish puppets. (I play a lot of succession games off-forum and take copious notes...It ticks me off that I can't alt-tab between Civ 5 and other programs anymore without crashing the game. I'm choosing to blame Steam for this, since I despise Steam anyways. And yes I can't remember the names or how many puppet cities I have. They are the drunk-dial girlfriends of cities in Civ 5.)
Anyways so of course I'm getting a big chunk of my culture-per-turn from city states, especially Florence (on our continent) and I'm also relatively dependent on maritime states (including Venice on our continent) for extra food to run specialists. I'm super-friendly with everyone in the world (Montie even gives me stuff for free because he's afraid of me) and I've been running trades left and right, especially Iron which I like to give away to whoever is fighting wars against the stronger AIs. (What ME aid and abet the enemy? Nuh uh!"
Anyways. What does my Good Buddy(TM?) Songhai do but attack Venice. I immediately ask him to stop, and he does - "Whoops sorry we didn't know they were your allies, sorry, sorry." 5 turns or so later what does he do but attack Florence. "Whoops sorry my bad, sorry, didn't know you were protecting them, I'll stop, sorry."
NOW sneaky bandit, what's he done? Totally ticked off all the city states that's what! So THEY declare all out war on Songhai. Every city state in the WORLD declares war on Songhai. Well what's he supposed to do except take over Venice (MY FOOD) and Florence (MY CULTURE)? They attacked HIM after all. He would be happy to stop fighting them since I ask, but they've declared all-out war on him and there is no mechanic for the player to ask city states to stop warring.
This is like, so totally awesome, I want to hug somebody. This was EXACTLY what the AI needed to do to stop my culture advance. And he played it exactly like a human player might - "What me? I didn't declare war, I just signed 3 pacts of secrecy, gifted units to their mortal enemy, and demanded 300 gold for nothing, I mean really, I don't understand why [insert civ] want to go to war with me?" SO COOL!
Now, admittedly I have rifles and artillery and Songhai has pikemen, and Hiawatha is jumping at the gate to get in on the smackdown action. So it doesn't take long for me to decimate Songhai (yea thanks Hiawatha you snooze you lose) and liberate my citystate buddies. Still, this was EXACTLY what I feared (why I made a point to build some military capability) and was IMO the best choice the AI could make to stymie my plans at this stage. Had Siam (my real rival, on the other continent) joined in I would have been done for...still, that would have smacked of cheating since I've really managed to keep Siam and Songhai apart from each other and there is really no reason for them to ally (Siam, of course, is allies with a number of city states as well.)
Anyways, I just want to say, unlike everybody else I've read on this forum I think the Civ 5 AI is awesome! While playing I still wish I had the designers sitting next to me so I could punch them in the face repeatedly for all the insultingly stupid design flub-ups they've made, but the AIs actions go a long, long ways towards making this game actually fun for me. I am really loving it.
I also expect to lose this game, as Siam is running away and I think I am going to have to nuke him. I could easily win the game but the point was to achieve a cultural victory and I think if I nuke Siam that's going out the window. Still, with what seemed like some extremely smart play on the AIs part in this game, it's actually been a ton of fun despite all my complaining about the interface and design (none of which I retract). I DO think this game is fixable, I'm just still pissed that I paid $50 for what was essentially a beta test version. Dear Firaxis: next time I will spend $10 for a used copy of your game, and you will get no money from me, because I don't trust you to release a workable first version. Congratulations!