GOTM 156 Spoiler

After all those nasty fighting, backstabbing our partners in peace, hunting down respawns and sometimes eliminating them the very moment they were born in GOTM#155, I felt the need for a peaceful game.
However, with #157 already launched, I also wanted a quick game, so I went (despite Ali's remarks in the game-thread) for OCC.
The city-location is very far from perfect, trade will not help much, but I except the map to be preventing the AI from building huge empires, so we should not have much competition during the endgame.
Three city-sites came to mind after careful inspection of the map: One step from the starting location, on grass, accessing whale and buffalo; another step further, on prarie, but having one more land tile to work on; or further away at 61,67, accessing whale and hidden pheasant/buffalo, on grass and having five land-tiles to work on. I chose the latter option.

-4000 Start walking
-3500 Babylon founded at 61,67; start with warrior since we are unable to build s1-settler
-3450 Decide to go for republic instead of monarchy and research Bronze
-3250 BW->Writ.
-2750 settler built, begin barracks
-2700 Writ.->Literacy; switch production to library
-2500 Warrior reaches 1st hut: Nomads
-2050 Barb trireme near Babylon, settler stops foresting and heads home
-1950 settler survives barb Archer attack
-1900 Lit.->Republic
-1700 25g from hut
-1550 Library built, start Colossus
-1500 Settler re-settles in Babylon, Nomad does terrain improvement, need 40% Lux now
-1250 Rep.(est.)->Mapmaking, reduce science, hoping warrior will reach AI soon
-925 Meet Indian warrior, peace, get mapmaking, currency (they also have myst.& burial), sign alliance, exchange maps

Stats at 925 BC:
city size: 4; techs: 9; gold: 101; Gov: Rep; City: Library

I too am leaning towards a space ship game though I keep my options open.

I moved one space to gain access to whales and used the Buffalo for a size 1 settler.

Interestingly, like Major, my first hut was a nomad. If it was not so far away I would have kept it for much needed improvements but instead I used it to build my third city.

-3950 Babylon founded. Romans and Carthaginians are in.
-3900 -> Ceremonial Burial. Spain and India are in.
-3550 Ceremonial Burial -> Monarchy. Vikings are in.
-3100 Size 1 settler produced. Persians are in.

Status at -3000
Population: 0.03M; Cities: 1; Techs: 4; Government: Despotism
Gold: 5; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 1 settler, 1 warrior
Goals: Monarchy, Trade
Roman: no contact
Viking: no contact
Spanish: no contact
Persian: no contact
Carthaginian: no contact
Indian: no contact

-2850 Ur founded.
-2750 Monarchy -> Bronze.
-2700 Revolution.
-2650 Monarchy established. T3L0S7
-2500 Nomad from first hut.
-2450 Nomad founds Nineveh.
-2300 Bronze -> Currency

Status at -2000
Population: 0.05M; Cities: 3; Techs: 6; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 1; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 2 settlers, 1 warrior
Goals: Trade
Roman: no contact
Viking: no contact
Spanish: no contact
Persian: no contact
Carthaginian: no contact
Indian: no contact

-1900 Currency -> Trade
-1850 Ashur founded.
-1700 Barbarian horse from hut.
-1650 Warrior on mountain survives barbarian and turns vet.
-1500 Trade -> Mapmaking. Ellipi and Akkad founded.
-1200 Mapmaking -> Seafaring. Uruk founded. T7L0S3
-1000 First boat produced.

Status at -1000
Population: 0.09M; Cities: 7; Techs: 9; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 14; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 4 settlers, 1 warrior, 1 Trireme
Goals: Marco
Roman: no contact
Viking: no contact
Spanish: no contact
Persian: no contact
Carthaginian: no contact
Indian: no contact

I finished GOTM 155 in early June, so I was waiting for this one. I decided that I was going for the SpaceShip victory. The game has been pretty slow, especially before the development of Railroad. Also, building stuff is super slow with all the ocean squares.

I moved 2 squares before founding Babylon. This gave immediate access to the Whale as well as the Buffalo and also gave access to 4 land squares.

I did not get Nomads from the first hut. I got Currency (I was researching it at the time, so it wasn't all bad).


-4000 Move NW toward Whale
-3900 Babylon founded (70,66)
-3850 Start Ceremonial Burial
-3700 Warrior
-3600 CB -> Monarchy
-3550 RB 1sh
-3400 Move worker to Buffalo
-3350 Size 2
-3150 Settler
-3100 Monarchy -> Bronze Working, REVOLUTION
-3050 Monarchy establish


stats at -3000:
pop.: .01; cities: 1; techs: 5, gov: Monarchy, gold: 15; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 1 Settler, 1 Warrior
wonders: None

Romans: No Contact
Vikings: No Contact
Spanish: No Contact
Persians: No Contact
Carthaginians: No Contact
Indians: No Contact


-2950 Ur founded
-2600 Bronze Working -> Currency
-2500 Hut -> Currency
-2450 Start Trade
-2400 Babylon Settler
-2250 Meet Indians, Trade BW for MM, Peace, Give Potery, Monarchy and CoL, Trade Maps, Rb 1sh


stats at -2000:
pop.: .04M; cities: 2; techs: 8, gov: Monarchy, gold: 35; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 1 Settler, 2 Warrior
wonders: None


Romans: No Contact
Vikings: No Contact
Spanish: No Contact
Persians: No Contact
Carthaginians: No Contact
Indians: No Embassy


-1900 Ur builds Settler
-1850 Babylon builds Settler
-1700 Trade -> Mysticism
-1550 Nineveh founded
-1450 Indian Alliance, get Warrior Code as gift
-1300 Ashur founded


stats at -1000:
pop.: .08M; cities: 4; techs: 10, gov: Monarchy, gold: 85; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 1 Settlers, 4 Warrior
wonders: None

Romans: No Contact
Vikings: No Contact
Spanish: No Contact
Persians: No Contact
Carthaginians: No Contact
Indians: No Embassy, Alliance

-0975 Warrior runs into Indian horseman. Mapmaking, Trade, Pottery, Monarchy -> Indian (4) -> peace, maps. Not surprisingly I am supreme. They have two cities
-0825 Eridu founded. Decided to change the first wonder from Marco to Lighthouse.
-0775 Samarra founded.
-0725 Seafaring -> Writing.
-0675 Lighthouse built as the first wonder.
-0650 Lagash founded.
-0625 Kish founded next door to Delhi.
-0500 Nippur founded on river at 83,81; it will be my science city.

Status at -0500
Population: 0.3M; Cities: 12; Techs: 10; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 14; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders: Lighthouse
Units: 6 settlers, 5 warrior, 2 Trireme
Goals: Marco
Roman: no contact
Viking: no contact
Spanish: no contact
Persian: no contact
Carthaginian: no contact
Indian: no embassy; 2 visible cities

-0450 Writing -> Literacy.
-0425 Shuruppak founded.
-0400 Warrior code from hut.
-0275 Marco built. Zariqum founded.
Romans demand Trade and declare war when I refuse.
Mapmaking, Warrior Code, Trade -> Viking (3) -> peace, maps, no tech exchange?
Seafaring, Monarchy, Currency -> Carthage (1) -> peace, maps, no tech exchange?
Bronze, Trade, Seafaring -> Persian (4)-> peace, maps, no tech exchange?
Warrior Code, Seafaring -> Spanish (0) -> Wheel, peace, maps
-0225 Literacy -> Mysticism. Sippar and Izibia founded. Literacy, Trade -> Carthaginian (1) -> Mysticism, Iron Working, 0g
-0200 -> Philosophy. Larsa founded. Indian -> 50g. Carthaginian -> 0g. Mysticism -> Persian -> Polytheism, 0g. Mysticism -> Spanish -> demand for tribute results in war. Literacy, Iron Working -> Viking -> Math, 0g. peace -> Roman -> 0g
-0150 Persian -> 0g. Cease fire -> Spanish -> 0g.
-0125 Barbarian uprising (not so) near Nippur. Indian -> 50g.
-0100 Carthaginian, Viking -> 0g
-0075 Indian -> 0g, Persian -> 50g, peace -> Spanish -> 100g. T3L0S7
-0050 Spanish -> 0g, Carthaginian, Viking -> 75g, Literacy -> Roman -> 0g
-0025 Barbarian horseman killed; leader captured for 100g. Indian -> 0g, Persian -> 75g.
+0001 Spanish -> 0g, Carthaginian -> 100g, Viking -> 75g. Iron Working -> Roman -> Construction

Status at +1
Population: 0.6M; Cities: 17; Techs: 19; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 458; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders: Lighthouse, Marco
Units: 11 settlers, 23 warriors, 2 Phalanx, 1 Legion, 4 Trireme, 6 vans, 1 explorer
Goals: Philosophy (next turn), Hanging Gardens (2 turns), Colossus, Michelangelo, King Richard
Foot print: 14 cities from Babylon to the Indian border (room left for one more), 3 cities on the edge next to the Indian edge.
Note: None of the rivals have met each other yet
Roman: 5 cities, 12 techs;
Viking: 4 cities, 14 techs
Spanish: 3 cities, 13 techs
Persian: 5 cities, 15 techs
Carthaginian: 3 cities, 16 techs
Indian: 2 cities, 15 techs

Hi Major, Ali, haleewud,

Someone who knew the nature of this game might expect that at least two of four experienced players such as us might choose the same city site for Babylon. But no - I founded in the starting square.

And even if they didn't choose the same site, with Monarchy a typical first goal, they would at least get there at the same time - but no, that's different too.

I wanted to get HG, particularly after the last game, and as I might not easily get LH as well (and ships having to hug the spiral would be very awkward), I thought it was time to find out how prioritising a tech path to Navigation got on.

The first hut gave 25g - but that was not until 675BC.

4000- Found Babylon.
3900- Start on CB.
3400- Discover CB -> Mon.
3350- Size-1 settler. Will road the grass square then settle.
3200- Warrior.
3050- Found Ur.
2850- Discover Monarchy -> MM. Become Monarchy.
2500- Discover MM -> Sea. Have 27g.

2450-
We are least powerful of 7 civs.
2200- Temple Babylon.
2000- RB Trireme uses 31 of 35g.
1950- Discover Seafaring -> Writing.
1750- Found Nineveh.
1600- Found Ashur.
1500- Discover Writing -> Mysticism.
1200- Discover Mysticism -> Masonry.
Romans start Pyramids, then abandon.
1000-

Stats.
Cities: 4. Pop: 6. Techs: 9. Gold: 21. Government: Monarchy.
3 settlers, 3 warriors, 1 trireme.

Ali's previous post (No 4) and my post (No 5) overlap, in the sense that I had not seen post 4 before submitting No 5. Either it is a time zones' effect or it is me using a copy of the page held by the browser. Ali's post seems to show, before I write it, that my pessimism for how quickly one could develop is not justified - the conventional trade-based development path allowing several wonders appears to be working well.

Inkerman said:

Someone who knew the nature of this game might expect that four different experienced players such as us might expect at least two of us would choose the same city site for Babylon. But no - I founded in the starting square.

Click to expand...

Very interesting observation. It is a testament to how well this game is made, how much complexity there is, and how many different avenues exist to success. Which is why the game is still actively played so many years after its introduction and with so many newer versions of it released.

Inkerman said:

I wanted to get HG, particularly after the last game, and as I might not easily get LH as well (and ships having to hug the spiral would be very awkward), I thought it was time to find out how prioritising a tech path to Navigation got on.

Click to expand...

You wanted to build a wonder without help from caravans!?

I usually try to avoid Lighthouse. Its cost is equivalent to 5 settlers at a time when I am usually expanding as fast as I can. But in this game I realized it would greatly speed up my movements because otherwise all movement will be sequential along the path of the spiral. I did not realize how limiting this would be at the outset; it was only after having triremes and getting beyond the first few cities. One thing that significantly contributed to this was my choice of a science city on the closest river to us. Not that far away on a straight path but a lot farther along the spiral. I sensed enough of an urgency to switch away from Marco. In retrospect I think it was the right decision.

Inkerman said:

Ali's previous post (No 4) and my post (No 5) overlap, in the sense that I had not seen post 4 before submitting No 5. Either it is a time zones' effect or it is me using a copy of the page held by the browser

Click to expand...

Must be the latter. I am pretty sure the forum shows all time stamps in your local time zone.

I was not sure how interesting of a choice this map would be. I designed it years ago and never played on it. So far I think it has showed itself to be a good choice in offering challenges off the beaten path.

One thing I know is going to be a big challenge is trade revenue. I just delivered my first caravan (while still in Monarchy) from size 3 Babylon to size 4 Bombay for a paltry 51. This was one reason I delayed switch to Republic. I wanted to extort all the money out of my rivals via tributes. Every turn I would reward the ones who gave me gold the previous turn with a tech gift and then the next turn ask for more. Despite spending generously on Caravans I had hundreds of gold left every turn. They all paid. When I did make the switch in +220 only 2 of them had gold above 50 and both were below 60. (Below 50 they gift you tech if they decide to comply.) In a typical game I do not worry about this so much expecting to make money from deliveries instead.

All that money was quickly spent on Harbors (and a couple of Libraries) post Republic. I am poor and expect to remain that way for some time.

Ali Ardavan said:

One thing I know is going to be a big challenge is trade revenue. I just delivered my first caravan (while still in Monarchy) from size 3 Babylon to size 4 Bombay for a paltry 51. ...

Click to expand...

That is the reason I did not want to play a normal landing game. My first deliveries brought in 37g (undemanded) and I was in republic. I did not even build a trireme but waited for Navigation instead, so that all three trade routes were opened at once. Maybe I should have sent an early trireme hugging the spiral with two vans, however Babylon was producing exactly 10 shields prior to railroad (one forest was planted, land special turned to buffalo), so paying one shield for a boat each turn would have been very hurtful. The caravel was scrapped right after delivery and revealing ocean tiles.


-900 Research Trade; Disband warrior in the wild
-825 Ask for indian gift, get none
-750 Trade -> Seafaring, switch wonder to Marco Polo
(Indians develop seafaring)
-525 Marco Polo completed, Market next;
Hail Carth, peace, get wheel, alliance, ask for gift, get Burial;
Hail Spain (they have Math), they demand 100g, denied, war
Hail Rome, gift some techs for key-civving, alliance, ask for gift, get Masonry
Hail India, get Seafaring & Myst., ask for gift, get 250
-500 Research Philo; plan: spend gold below 50 for vans, get math from Spain, Astro as philo-prize (should be joker), then Nav. for trade routes
-450 Market built,
-425 Hail vikings, gift techs alliance, 100g gift
-400 Van
-350 Van
-225 4 vans ready, gold spent down to 11, hail Spain, peace, get Math, alliance, no gift, 125g from Carth
-175 Colossus built
-150 Philo->Astro->Navigation
-125 Temple built, Babylon celebrates
-100 Get Construction from Rome, IW as gift
-75 sign alliance with Persia, get 50g gift
-50 150g from India
-25 Aquaeduct, stop celebration at size 9

Stats at 1 AD:
city size: 9; techs: 22; gold: 122; Gov: Rep; City: Temple, Market, Library, Aqaeduct; Colossus, Marco Polo
Units: 1 settler (none), 1 van
plan: Build a caravel to establish trade routes; Build Copernicus and Shakespeare, then grow

+40 gift some techs to Spain, ask for gift, get warrior code
60 Ask for viking gift, get banking, ask for Carth gift, get 150g; all techs to Rome, ask for gift, get HBR
120 Bank built, ask for roman gift again, get 300g (they had no more techs to give)
140 250g from Spain
240 Nav.->Medicine;
260 100g from Vikings
280 Caravel sails away with 3 vans on board
300 salt, wine, beads delivered for 37g each
320 Harbor built, Indians develop Engineering but refuse to share because of KRC
360 Get Medicine from Vikings + 100g gift, 250 from India
380 Research University; gift Nav. to India hoping they switch wonders
400 They don't
420 Uni->Engineering
460 Copernicus built
480 Ask for Roman gift, get bridge-building
500 University built

Stats at 500 AD:
city size: 9; techs: 27; gold: 153; Gov: Rep; City: Temple, Market, Library, Aqaeduct, Bank, University; Colossus, Marco Polo, Copernicus
Units: 1 settler (none), 0 van
Allied with all
plan: Sanitation and Shakespeare


8 hours, 45 minutes until kick-off...

+0020 Philosophy -> Monotheism. -> Astronomy. Crusader from hut. Romans refuse map exchange. Indian -> 0g, Persian -> 75g.
+0040 Hanging Gardens built. Nippur celebrates. Nimrud founded. Spanish -> 0g, Carthaginian -> 50g, Viking -> 25g. Philosophy -> Roman -> Republic.
+0060 Zamua founded. Indian -> 0g; Persian, Roman -> 100g.
+0080 Indian -> 125g, Spanish -> 0g, Carthaginian -> 50g, Viking -> 25g
+0100 Khorsabad founded. Persian, Spanish -> 100g; Roman -> 50g
+0120 Hindana founded. Crusader from hut. Carthaginian, Viking -> 50g
+0140 Indian warrior bribed for 31g. Roman -> maps; Persian, Spanish -> 50g
+0160 Copper from Babylon to Bombay for 52 establishes the first trade route. Tell Wilaya founded in the middle of Indian edge. This will limit 2 city Indians to one more city on this edge. Roman -> 50g
+0180 Shush founded. Indian -> 100g, Spanish -> 25g. Monotheism -> Viking -> Medicine.
+0200 First structure, a harbor, is built. Roman, Viking, Indian -> 50g. Now that my rivals are all near broke, it is time to revolt.
+0220 Shushtar and Telloh founded. Indian, Spanish -> 25g; Carthaginian -> 50g. Republic established. T1L8S1
+0240 Colossus and Michelangelo built. All 8 eligible cities celebrate.
+0260 Babol founded.
+0280 Dezful and Ahvaz founded. T2L6S2
+0300 Astronomy -> Banking. Domestic wine (from SSC) for 150. T2L7S1
+0320 Seafaring -> Roman -> Banking.
+0340 -> Engineering. T4L5S1
+0380 Deliveries to Persians for 188, 134.T3L5S2
+0400 Engineering -> Sanitation. Umma founded. T3L4S3
+0420 Gems to Persians for 288! (better than I expected).
+0460 Adab and Nina founded.
+0480 Sanitation -> Invention. Ebla and Bokht founded. Silver to Persians for 134. Sanitation -> Roman -> University, maps.

Status at +500
Population: 5.6M; Cities: 33; Techs: 28; Government: Republic
Gold: 21; Cost: 18; Trade routes: 2D5F;
Wonders: Lighthouse, Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Marco, Michelangelo
Units: 11 settlers, 15 warriors, 2 Phalanx, 1 Legion, 3 Crusaders, 8 Trireme, 2 diplomats, 8 vans, 1 explorer
Goals: King Richard (2 turns), Shakespeare, Copernicus, Explosives, Leo
Foot print: 15 cities from Babylon to the Indian border, 1 city on the Indian edge (one more planned), 6 cities fully covering the next edge after Indian's, 6 cities fully covering the next edge, 4 cities on the next edge (2 more planned), 0 cities on the next edge, 1 city on the next edge.
Note: None of the rivals have met each other yet
Roman: 7 cities, 20 techs;
Viking: 5 cities, 23 techs
Spanish: 5 cities, 18 techs
Persian: 6 cities, 20 techs
Carthaginian: 4 cities, 21 techs
Indian: 2 cities, 20 techs

+0540 Vikings and Persians meet. King Richard built at size 11 science city, my only city above size 8. Abadan founded. T4L4S2
+0580 Andimeshk founded.
+0620 Invention -> Chemistry. Wine to Persians for 82. Domestic Silver for 40.
+0640 Shiraz founded.
+0660 Neyriz founded. Copper to Persians for 38. Domestic deliveries for 60, 99.
+0680 Chemistry -> Democracy. T3L4S3
+0720 Shakespeare built.
+0760 Romans build Great Library. Domestic deliveries for 56.
+0780 Democracy -> Bridge Building. Roman -> 250g; Viking, Spanish, Carthaginian -> 200g; Persian -> 75g; Indian -> 125g. Democracy established. T3L3S4. Domestic deliveries for 74. Nasr founded. Wine to Persians for 85.
+0800 Silk to Persians for 216.
+0820 Invention -> Indian -> Bridge Building.
+0840 -> Gunpowder -> Feudalism. Gunpowder -> Indian -> Feudalism. Domestic deliveries for 50, 60, 77.
+0860 -> Theology -> Explosives. Polytheism -> Indian -> Horseback riding (to get the second row for rush buying).
+0880 Silk to Persians for 255.
+0900 Hides to Persians for 26.
+0920 Explosives -> Metallurgy. Leo built. Domestic deliveries for 47.
+0940 Copernicus built. Domestic deliveries for 68, 47.
+0960 Metallurgy -> Theory of Gravity. Domestic deliveries for 65
+1000 Theory of Gravity -> Navigation. Science city maxes out (before refrigeration) at size 24. Domestic deliveries for 162, 24. Hides to Persians for 86.

Status at +1000
Population: 14.6M; Cities: 38; Techs: 39; Government: Democracy
Gold: 23; Cost: 79; Trade routes: 32D10F;
Ancient Wonders: Lighthouse, Hanging Gardens, Colossus
Medieval Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, King Richard, Shakespeare, Copernicus
Industrial Wonders: Leo
Units: 14 Engineers, 19 Musketeers, 2 Crusaders, 9 Trireme, 2 diplomats, 22 vans, 1 explorer
Goals: Bach (6 turns), Magellan (6 turns), Newton, Refrigeration
Foot print: 15 cities from Babylon to the Indian border, 2 cities on the Indian edge, 6 cities fully covering the next edge after Indian's, 6 cities fully covering the next edge, 6 cities covering the next edge, 2 cities on the next edge, 1 city on the next edge.
Roman: 8 cities, 34 techs; Great Library
Viking: 5 cities, 29 techs
Spanish: 5 cities, 20 techs
Persian: 6 cities, 24 techs
Carthaginian: 5 cities, 23 techs
Indian: 2 cities, 30 techs

Looking at the stats I am surprised by how few new cities I founded during this period. Last period I went from 17 to 33, almost double. This period I went from 33 to 38, a mere 15% increase which is pathetic.

Finished and submitted. The game remained peaceful until the very end (at least as far as we are concerned), the only "battle" we fought was capturing a barb leader in indian territory.

520 Engin.->Econ.; 100g from Vikings
540 250 from Spain
580 300 from Rome
600 Econ->Sanitation; Romans had discovered Economics this very same turn.
620 sell temple, 150g from Carth
640 Shakepeare built, get Invention + 300g from Spain, Babylon celebrates
680 Sanitation->physics;
700 Sewer, Persia gifts Monarchy
720 250g from India, 300 from Rome
740 Phys.->Steam Engine; 150 from Carth
800 Steam->Railroad; 100g from Vikings
840 200 from India
860 Railroad->Industialization(858);
880 50g from Vikings
900 Stock exchange, Babylon maxed out for now at size 23
920 Industr.->Gravity(884);
980 Grav.->Demo(910), There is not much benefit from Corporation(Freights) in this game
1000 Newton College

Stats at 1000 AD:
city size: 23; techs: 37; gold: 182; Gov: Rep; City: Temple, Market, Library, Aqaeduct, Bank, University, Stock Exchange, Sewer, Harbor; Colossus, Marco Polo, Copernicus, Shakepeare, Newton
Units: 1 settler (none), 2 van
Allied with all

1020 Demo(est.)->Corporation;
1040 150g from india
1060 Corp.->Gunpowder; Gunpowder + 300g from Rome
1080 dye(d)>Delhi 152g
1100 Chem.->Explosives(1092); 50g from Carth; A factory would boost our production from 12 to 18 shields, does not seem worth it
1140 Expl.->Magnet.
1160 Engineer built
1180 Mag.->Metall. (1066);
1200 Spain is about to build Darwin and have just received Industrialization via GL
(Spain uses Darwin for Magnetism and Metallurgy. I wish I had known that...)
1220 Metall->Electricity; Rome and Spain are working on Communism; Hail Spain, they want us to join their war with vikings, no, they want 200g, also no, ask for gift, get 200
1240 India gets feudalism and now goes for Chivalry; key-civ-shift makes us inadequate tech cost 1260
1260 Electr.(Barely, at full science)->Refining(1118); we are weak again
1280 50g from Persia
1300 Ref.->Refrigeration; 75g from India
1340 Refr.->Combust.; Re-trigger celebration
1380 Supermarket; India chivalry
1400 Combust.->Electronics(1196); India is working on Leadership, awesome 594
1420 dye(d) 156g to Delhi
1440 Electron.->Steel
1460 Salt produced, but nobody demands it; Disband engineer
(Rome Communism, get it and build UN?)
1480 Steel->Automob.
1500 Babylon maxed out at size 26
(India Leadership)
1510 Auto->Conscr.(1326); Get Communism + 250g from Rome
1520 Superhighways, 768 science done, a barb leader in India is in reach, too bad we don't have any military units, get Leadership from India
1530 Conscr.->Tactics(1352); Salt delivered for 123;
1550 Tactics->Mass Prod.

Stats at 1570 AD:
city size: 26; techs: 55; gold: 1177; Gov: Demo; City: Temple, Market, Library, Aqaeduct, Bank, University, Stock Exchange, Sewer, Supermarket, Superhighways, Harbor; Colossus, Marco Polo, Copernicus, Shakepeare, Newton
Units: 1 settler (none), 13 van, 1 boat
Allied with all

Comparing with Ali's stats, we seem to do pretty well in keeping up with techs (only 1 behind in 500 and 1000).

Major Advantage said:

1200 Spain is about to build Darwin and have just received Industrialization via GL
(Spain uses Darwin for Magnetism and Metallurgy. I wish I had known that...)

Click to expand...

One technique you can use is to gift all your techs to the Civ who is about to build Darwin. That way you know they will get techs you do not have. This sounds good in theory but does not always work well in practice. I remember the first time I tried it the rival who built Darwin got Communism (which is for some odd reason a very popular choice with the AI) and the tech I just discovered that turn! The second time I tried this technique the rival got Communism and one of the techs that are off path for a space ship victory.

Communism is of course worthless no matter how you are playing because it is so popular that more than half the AI will be researching it and soon enough you can trade for it anyway.

Major Advantage said:

1500 Babylon maxed out at size 26

Stats at 1570 AD:
city size: 26; techs: 55; gold: 1177; Gov: Demo; City: Temple, Market, Library, Aqaeduct, Bank, University, Stock Exchange, Sewer, Supermarket, Superhighways, Harbor; Colossus, Marco Polo, Copernicus, Shakepeare, Newton

Click to expand...

Just like you sold your temple upon building Shakespeare, you can sell off your Sewer and Aqueduct as soon as your city maxes out post Refrigeration. Just make sure you first disband all supported settlers/Engineers and get the population growth from the food they were consuming.

Ali Ardavan said:

One technique you can use is to gift all your techs to the Civ who is about to build Darwin. That way you know they will get techs you do not have. This sounds good in theory but does not always work well in practice. I remember the first time I tried it the rival who built Darwin got Communism (which is for some odd reason a very popular choice with the AI) and the tech I just discovered that turn! The second time I tried this technique the rival got Communism and one of the techs that are off path for a space ship victory.

Communism is of course worthless no matter how you are playing because it is so popular that more than half the AI will be researching it and soon enough you can trade for it anyway.

Click to expand...

As far as I have witnessed, the AI ALWAYS go for Communism when they have Industrialization, so an AI (with Ind.) building Darwin will ALWAYS cancel my Marco Polo. I found it very surprising they did not in this game.
Usually, I am deep enough in the tech-tree, that I do not want the Darwin-AI to have the techs I have, especially in OCC.[/QUOTE]

Ali Ardavan said:

Just like you sold your temple upon building Shakespeare, you can sell off your Sewer and Aqueduct as soon as your city maxes out post Refrigeration. Just make sure you first disband all supported settlers/Engineers and get the population growth from the food they were consuming.

Click to expand...

I know but I tend to forget. I remembered it later when I was building my spaceship. But then I needed a 120s-bulding available when I built the components (Babylon was doing 50s), so I only sold the sewer. (temple>sewer>wonder, add van>Component)

My rather different (emphasising research of navigation - imagine a game in which player is prohibited from researching trade) journey continues. Seems to produce a slower game.

975- Plan to settle at (83,67) delayed as barbs are there.
950-
925- Discover Masonry -> Maths.
900- Found Ellipi.
875-
850-
Romans start Pyramids.
825-
800- Lose warrior defending Ellipi, but trireme joins in and becomes vet.
775-
750- Discover Maths -> Astronomy.
We are 6th most powerful.

725-
700-
675- Hut: 25g.
650- Found Akkad.
625-
600- Discover Astronomy -> Navigation.
575- We are about to meet Indians.
Meet Indians, give MM and Mysticism, swap maps. We are Mighty. They have 4 cities, probably HBR.
550-
525-
500-

Stats.
Cities: 6. Pop: 14. Techs: 12. Gold: 124. Government: Monarchy.
3 settlers, 9 warriors, 2 dips.

475-
450-
425-
400- Discover Navigation -> Literacy. We are Supreme.
375-
350-
325-
Vikings start Pyramids.
300- Babylon completes Hanging Gardens.
275- Found Uruk.
250-

225- Discover Literacy -> Republic.
Persians, Indians start Pyramids.
200-
175-
150-
125-
100-
75- Found Eridu.
50- Discover Republic -> Philosophy. Swap Nav to Indians(1) for HBR. They also have BW. Found Samarra. Revolution.
Romans nearly done Pyramids.
25- Become Republic. Lux to 30%.
Romans nearly complete. Rome builds Pyramids. Vikings, Indians, Persians change to Colossus. Romans change to GW.

1AD- Some WLTCD. For comparison Ali's stats (see earlier post) in brackets

Cities: 9 (17). Pop: 25 (0.6m). Techs: 16 (19). Gold: 185 (458). Government: Republic (Monarchy).
Hanging Gardens (LH, MPE). Others have Pyramids.
4 temples, 2 libraries, 1 harbour.
3 settlers (11), 11 warriors (23), 2 caravels (4 trireme), 3 dips (0), other 0 (10).

Indians nearly done Colossus.

Inkerman,
Looks like you not only pursued a path to Navigation but emphasized getting there over expansion. It is going to be interesting to see how your empire with fewer but more developed cities fares against the typical larger less developed ones. Although, as I have already mentioned, between +500 and +1000 I expanded very little and instead concentrated on infrastructure and wonders. So comparing our two games it would be more of early infrastructure versus later.

Expansion resumed in this period extending our frontier to near that of the Persian empire. All is peaceful. I am keeping everyone happy with tech gifts and other than Vikings who have met Persians the rest are unaware of one another.

+1020 Rasht founded.
+1040 Navigation -> Physics. Lahijan founded. Domestic deliveries for 117, 67, 32, 54
+1060 Physics -> Conscription. Gems to Vikings for 213. Hides to Persians for 44.
+1080 Fasaa founded.
+1100 Conscription -> Magnetism. Deliveries to Vikings for 210, 112. Domestic deliveries for 70. Anzali founded.
+1120 Magnetism -> Steam Engine. Magellan built. Domestic deliveries for 70, 92, 50, 125.
+1140 Spanish build Pyramids. Steam Engine -> Electricity. Bach built. Spice to Persians for 255. Domestic deliveries for 110. Fuman, Rudbar, and Bidgol founded.
+1160 Electricity -> Atomic Theory. Laar and Langrud founded. Steam Engine -> Roman -> Economics, maps.
+1180 Newton built. Atomic Theory -> Refrigeration. Spice to Delhi for 78.
+1220 Refrigeration -> Chivalry. Deliveries to Persians for 52, 99. Jangal founded.
+1240 Chivalry -> Leadership.
+1260 Leadership -> Masonry. Gunpowder -> Spanish -> Masonry. Science city maxes out at size 26. Barbarian crusader killed. Barbarian leader for 100g. Hides to Vikings for 148. Sari founded.
+1280 -> Tactics -> Fundamentalism. Astara founded. Wine to Vikings for 230.
+1300 Kazerun founded.
+1320 Fundamentalism -> Amphibious Warfare. Hides to Vikings for 148.
+1340 Amphibious Warfare -> Railroad. Domestic Silver for 210.
+1360 Railroad -> Industrialization. T4L2S4. Ardabil founded. Railroad to all Rivals. Wine to Vikings for 155.
+1380 Industrialization -> Corporation. Cavalry kills barbarian knight and turns vet.
+1400 Corporation -> Genetic Engineering. Silk to Delhi for 206. Cavalry kills another barbarian knight. Urumiyeh founded.
+1420 Genetic Engineering -> Refining. Domestic deliveries for 84, 96, 187. Wine to Vikings for 92.
+1440 Refining -> Steel. Shahi founded. T2L2S6
+1460 Steel -> Machine Tools. Domestic deliveries for 92, 45.
+1480 Machine Tools -> Electronics. Amol founded. Domestic deliveries for 85.
+1500 Electronics -> Miniaturization. Adam Smith and Cure built. Tus founded. Domestic deliveries for 168, 122. T5L2S3

Status at +1500
Population: 33.3M; Cities: 56; Techs: 62; Government: Democracy
Gold: 154; Cost: 120; Trade routes: 67D23F;
Ancient Wonders: Lighthouse, Hanging Gardens, Colossus
Medieval Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, King Richard, Shakespeare, Copernicus, Magellan
Industrial Wonders: Leo, Bach, Newton, Adam Smith
Modern Wonders: Cure
Units: 15 Engineers, 19 Riflemen, 2 Cavalry, 10 Transports, 2 diplomats, 12 vans, 1 explorer
Goals: Beating rivals to Darwin (currently Vikings and Persians are building it), Hoover, building offshore platform everywhere, superhighways, more Engineers for railroading, trade with Spanish (last founded city is right across from their edge).
Foot print: 15 cities from Babylon to the Indian border; 2 cities on the Indian edge; 6, 6, 6, 5, 4, 8, 3 (plus 3 Persian cities), 0 (plus 3 Persian cities), 1 on the following edges.
Roman: 8 cities, 46 techs; Great Library
Viking: 5 cities, 31 techs
Spanish: 5 cities, 24 techs; Pyramids
Persian: 6 cities, 31 techs
Carthaginian: 7 cities, 29 techs
Indian: 2 cities, 56 techs

I am playing for conquest, and will revert to Monarchy after some growth as a Republic.

20- Found Lagash, Kish.
Delhi builds Colossus. Indians change to Copernicus. Vikings, Persians change to Lighthouse.
40- Hut: Warrior Code.
60-
80- Discover Philosophy -> Wheel -> Polytheism.
100- Vikings nearly done LH.

120- Trondheim builds LH. Persians change to GW. Romans abandon.
140- Found Nippur, Shuruppak.
160-
180- Discover Polytheism -> Monotheism.
200-

Persian ele appears by Shuruppak and they get Navigation and Republic from us.
220- Babylon is size 8. Next OEDO is 300AD.
240-
260- Found Zariqum.
280- Discover Monotheism -> Feudalism. Found Sippar. Revolution.
300- Become Monarchy.
320- Found Izibia.
Indians change from Copernicus to GL.
340- Found Larsa.
Decline Indian offer to give BW for Poly.
360- Found Nimrud.
Carthags start GW.
380-
400-
Indians change from GL to Copernicus.
420-
Persians nearly done GW.
440- Found Zamua.
Persepolis builds Great Wall. Carthags change to Oracle. Romans start and abandon GL.
460-
480- Found Khorsabad, Hindana. Riot factor kicking in.
500- Discover Feudalism -> Physics. Found Tell Wilaya.

Stats.
Cities: 22. Pop: 59. Techs: 22. Gold: 434. Government: Monarchy.
Hanging Gardens. Others have Pyramids, Colossus, LH, GW.
5 temples, 2 libraries, 1 harbour.
8 settlers, 23 warriors, 3 crusaders, 6 caravels, 4 dips.

Romans: Pyramids
Vikings: Lighthouse
Spanish:
Persians(1): Neutral. Peace. Great Wall
Carthags:
Indians(3): Enthusiastic. Peace. Colossus. 5 cities.

There is significant preparation needed before the typical EC fighting can get underway. We need an army. We need to know where everyone is. We need the ability to access the distant parts of the map. And there may be some wonder issues.

Persians start Magellan. Romans start GL.
520- We are 6th in Wealth, with 478g. Romans abandon GL.
540- Romans start MPE.
560- Spanish start Oracle. Decline Persian offer of Currency for Polytheism.
580- Carthags nearly done Oracle.
600- Spanish capital moved to Salamanca. Persians abandon Magellan. Carthage builds Oracle. Spanish abandon.

620- Persians start Magellan.
640- Meet Romans. 250g from Indians. 0 from Persians. Persians abandon Magellan.
660- Meet Spanish(1). Get 300g for peace. Land a unit by the Romans, get 350g for peace. Hut: Crusaders.
680- Viking capital moved to Roskilde. Vikings approach and give 300g for peace.
Carthag capital moved to Caralis.
700-

720- Viking capital moved to the Udal.
740- Discover Physics -> BW.
Swap Wheel to Indians for BW.
Romans(5) offer Trade. Persians(0) give Currency as Tribute. Vikings(3) have Iron.
Spanish(1) have Iron.
Rush SunTzu, as another crusader about to be built.
760- Start on Trade. Ellipi completes Sun Tzu. Vikings(4) withdraw. Romans now working on MPE when we propose a tech swap.
780- Indians nearly done Copernicus.
800- Build city number 30 - this seems to upset a lot of other cities. Rush Michaelangelo, just enough money.
Delhi builds Copernicus. Indians change to GL.

820- Ashur builds Michaelangelo's Chapel.
Indians(2) give 400g, Romans(5) give 50g, Spanish(0) give 100g.
Carthags start KRC.
840- Vikings(4) withdraw and give 100g.
860- Spanish(0) are fighting Vikings.
880- Give Pottery to Indians. Vikings start GL.
900- 75g from Romans. Indians withdraw.

920- Persians again refuse. Indians nearly done GL.
940- Attack Persians. At last see a Carthag unit, the last AI to be met.
Madras builds GL. Vikings abandon.
960- Capture Persepolis and Great Wall - used many vet crusaders and some caravel attacks from sea as well.
Get 195g and Construction. Also capture Pasargadae, taking 75g and selling its barracks.
Meet and get 175g from Carthags. Give WC to Indians. Get 150g from Spanish.
980- 150g from Vikings.
1000- Ashur completes Magellan.

Stats.
Cities: 40. Pop: 114. Techs: 26. Gold: 633. Government: Monarchy.
Hanging Gardens, GW, Sun Tzu, Michaelangelo, Magellan.
Others have Pyramids, Colossus, LH, GL, Oracle, Copernicus.
7 temples, 2 libraries, 1 harbour.
11 settlers, 23 warriors, 17 pikemen, 24 crusaders, 15 caravels, 4 dips.

Romans: Receptive, Peace. Won't swap Trade as working on MPE, Pyramids
Vikings: Unco-op, Peace, Lighthouse
Spanish: Unco-op, Peace.
Persians: Unco-op, War.
Carthags: Unco-op, Ceasefire, Oracle.
Indians: Worshipful, Peace, Colossus, GL, Copernicus. 5 cities.

The acquisition of Great Wall and Magellan, and the meeting of the last AI, means we can now start conquest. Tribute has proved lucrative. But it has taken a lot of time. As Ali has noted even without any actual trade (which did not seem to be indicated on this particular map), lacking the help of caravans for wonders has slowed things down.

The city and techs figures, of 40 and 26 respectively, compare with Ali's 38 and 39 respectively at this stage, showing that this development path has made a big difference by limiting tech discovery. What I have been looking for is reach - as cities/canals are needed for this I have been spreading out more. Whereas Ali notes 15 cities to the Indian border I have only eight there. Coverage is not as good as needed yet - whilst I have got to the edge of the spiral by the Romans I have yet to map the main part of the Viking lands, and I have not found a Carthaginian city.

So in the final part of the 1000 turn:
Attack Romans; capture Ravenna, taking 15g and Trade. They have 3 other techs.

Finished and submitted, with conquest from a mixture of bribery and attacks by crusaders occasionally assisted by frigates.

I do not think anyone else is going for a (not so early) conquest, but in accordance with convention for the spoiler I won't post details.

I gave up on the Romans building MPE for us to capture and built it a couple of turns after elimination of the Romans. They didn't re-spawn but others did. The Spanish were the hardest AI, with cities on rivers, some walls, and a clever habit of posting units on potential landing sites. The last city taken was Spanish Saragossa.

This period was mostly about building infrastructure particularly offshore platforms. Science was deemphasized in favor of taxes to pay for all the rush jobs. Expansion continued but not at a fast pace. With all the must have wonders already built, the next period is going to be about the space race. Rivals remained peaceful with the exception of Vikings who stole Space Flight and paid for it dearly by losing a city, their only wonder, and a pile of cash to me.

+1510 Miniaturization -> Combustion. Dye to Vikings for 182. Domestic deliveries for 146, 242. Barbarian leader for 100g. T6L2S2
+1520 Domestic deliveries for 65.
+1530 Combustion -> Automobile. Silver to Delhi for 317. Gold to Persians for 356. Chalus founded.
+1540 Automobile -> Mobile Warfare. Arsanjan founded. Domestic deliveries for 117. T8L2S0
+1550 Darwin built. Mobile Warfare -> Mass Production -> Computers. First pollution appears. Domestic deliveries for 130. T6L2S2
+1560 Domestic deliveries for 107, 164. Spice to Vikings for 378.
+1570 Persians build Eiffel. Computers -> Recycling. Hoover built. Domestic deliveries for 324, 107.
+1580 Tabriz and Marv founded.
+1590 Recycling -> Robotics. Domestic deliveries for 147, 252, 176. Tabas founded.
+1600 Romans achieve Communism. Robotics -> Nuclear Fission.
+1610 Vikings build Liberty. Domestic deliveries for 2x137, 260, 262, 273.
+1620 Explorer fortified on mountain survives wounded barbarian knight. Nuclear Fission -> Nuclear Power. Domestic deliveries for 287.
+1630 Nuclear Power -> Laser. Piruzabad founded. Domestic deliveries for 178.
+1640 Domestic deliveries for 250, 255, 80, 98.
+1650 Laser -> Flight. Domestic deliveries for 304, 130, 252, 147. Spice to Vikings for 338. Kermanshah founded on the edge across Romans. Now trading with Romans is feasible. Computers -> Roman -> Communism. T2L2S6
+1660 Flight -> Radio -> Advanced Flight. Sanandaj founded. Domestic deliveries for 72. T4L2S4
+1670 First Airport built. Domestic deliveries for 39, 244.
+1680 Advanced Flight -> Rocketry. Deliveries to Spanish for 68, 172. Domestic deliveries for 355. Shanjan founded. T2L2S6
+1690 Rocketry -> Espionage -> Space Flight. Domestic deliveries for 160, 122, 332, 252. Barbarian rifleman bribed for 82g. Ghuchan founded.
+1700 Space Flight -> Environmentalism. Domestic deliveries for 98. Mamasani founded. Barbarian rifleman bribed for 82g. T4L2S4
+1710 Environmentalism -> Plastics. Domestic deliveries for 300, 88.
+1720 Vikings steal Space Flight; I declare war. SETI built. Plastics -> Combined Arms. Domestic deliveries for 230, 156, 77. Indian embassy established.
+1730 Combined Arms -> Superconductor. Domestic deliveries for 204, 157. Landed a howitzer next to Kaupang and killed its Phalanx defender.
+1740 Rifleman survives barbarian rifleman and kills artillery. Superconductor -> Stealth. Domestic deliveries for 75. Viking embassy established. Howitzer kills musketeer defending Kaupang. The city is taken for Statue of Liberty and 258g. Accepted Viking offer of 1450 for peace.
+1750 Stealth -> Fusion Power -> Future Tech 1. Apollo built. Paveh founded.

Status at +1750
Population: 93M; Cities: 69; Techs: 86; Government: Democracy
Gold: 6049; Cost: 878; Trade routes: 44 short of full;
Ancient Wonders: Lighthouse, Hanging Gardens, Colossus
Medieval Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, King Richard, Shakespeare, Copernicus, Magellan
Industrial Wonders: Leo, Bach, Newton, Adam Smith, Darwin, Liberty
Modern Wonders: Cure, Hoover, SETI, Apollo
Units: 20 Engineers, 22 Riflemen, 4 attack units, 1 AEGIS, 10 Transports, 2 diplomats, 2 spy, 6 vans, 1 explorer
Goals: Space race
Foot print: 15 cities from Babylon to the Indian border; 2 cities on the Indian edge; 6, 6, 6, 8, 5, 8, 5 (plus 4 Persian cities), 0 (plus 3 Persian cities), 4, 1 (plus 5 Vikings cities), 3 on the following edges.
Roman: 8 cities, ? techs; Great Library
Viking: 5 cities, 36 techs
Spanish: 6 cities, ? techs; Pyramids
Persian: 7 cities, ? techs; Eiffel
Carthaginian: 8 cities, ? techs
Indian: 2 cities, 63 techs