How does the AI found a pantheon so fast?

Question

King
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
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Not to mention build wonders much faster than i can, even as egypt.

Ive seen the AI found a pantheon on turn 10...this is with edited research speeds so that it is impossible to research pottery before turn 10.....no celts either.

Moderator Action: Moved to G&K.
 
AI starts with 1st column of ancient techs, lucky ruin pops or meeting 2 religious CSs nearby can help with the cause.

G
 
Possible theories
1. Unlike what everyone thought, there is a chance you pop a 20 faith ruiin (Quick speed)
2. Religious City states give 8 faith when first met (Quick speed, first pantheon requires only 6)
3. Boudicca, if spawned next to 1 or 2 tiles of forest gains +1 to faith (6th turn Pantheon, Quick speed). If spawned next to 3 forest tiles, she gains 2, meaning in only 3 turns, she founds her Pantheon).
 
What staggers me is how on some turns three AI's can found a pantheon on the same turn, it is just illogical, especially when only one religious city state is on the map
 
Celts found pantheon on turn 5, if they have forests. (normal speed)

A bit later in the game, Ethiopia and Maya can do early pantheons.

Like ppl said, ruins or CS will make this happen.
 
(I specifically mentioned no celts...)

On a side note, does anyone know how pressure works? Ive got the "spread faster" belief, AND printing press, but im having trouble spreading my religion naturally to the city next to my holy city. Meanwhile Russia's christianity is running wild all over the world. How is the AI doing it? Is there any way to fight back (since inquisitors dont work on cities you dont own...).

I definately cant spam enough great prophets to convert all the christian cities at this point.
 
The most common reasons for early pantheons in my games are:
(1) Ruins
(2) Religious city states

Iirc a religious city state grants 6 faith when being discovered, so if the AI is lucky an has two around, it can found a pantheon quite quickly.

On a side note, does anyone know how pressure works?
Every city that has a religion applies pressure to any other city within range. Without religious modifiers, standard pressure is 6 and pressure range is - iirc - 10. Number of followers does NOT matter, only the dominant religion is important.

So, for example:
You have 3 cities, and two of them are taoistic. All three cities are within the pressure range of the city state Valetta. Your cities will thus apply 2 x 6 = 12 pressure onthe city state.
A but later, your 3rd city becomes religious. Now you will apply 3 x 6 = 18 pressure on the city state.

As you can see, religion can easily have snowballing effects if you found a religion early and/or have cities tightly packed together. A headstart of 10 turns with your religion can mean that it has "infected" a lot of cities before another religion had the chance to spread. That can also mean once that if a religion has spread far enough, it is almost impossible to counter-convert cities - only narrow passages or barely settled areas will slow the spreading down and allow you to create a "frontier".

A good way to test this is to try a "dense wide empire" strategy: Play maya on a pangae map, found 6 cities within min range around your capital, get pyramids and grab a religion. Your 7 cities will quickly convert and apply so much pressure tp anyone around you, that your religion can easily dominate the map and convert 2/3 to 3/4 of the map as the game progresses. I would, btw, recommend increased spreading range for this.
 
If a pantheon is founded on turn 5, the Celts started with at least three forests next to thier capital. If someone founded one on turn 10, the Celts started with one forest by thier capital. If someone founded one before you finish your temple, it is Ethiopia and possibly the Maya. Other then that, it is religious CSs giving civs a boost or the lucky ruins find...
 
maya and ethiopia can do 10 turn pantheons - stele and pyramid take 5 turns for faith - AI on high levels has production bonuses, and it seems a tech advantage. Both can give a pantheon very early (one is a monument replacement so can be built immediately anyway). Add to that a CS meet and it seems possible to get early AI starts.
 
So its 6 pressuer per city?

And on king, the AI gets the entire first column of techs for free? No wonder i can't out tech half the AIs...
 
So its 6 pressuer per city?

And on king, the AI gets the entire first column of techs for free? No wonder i can't out tech half the AIs...

Babylon - played correctly - seems a good option for those players seeking a science victory or who at least want to keep up with the AI.
 
The most common reasons for early pantheons in my games are:
(1) Ruins
(2) Religious city states

Iirc a religious city state grants 6 faith when being discovered, so if the AI is lucky an has two around, it can found a pantheon quite quickly.

I had to burst out laughing one game. I found La Venta on turn 3 (8 faith at standard speed) and Wittenburg the next (they were next door neighbors - another 8 faith). Founded my pantheon one turn before the Celts. :D
 
Edit: I take it back, the first row is formatted strangely, but the AI does indeed seem to get pottery at King. It confused me because it goes to next line.

-<HandicapInfo_AIFreeTechs> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_KING</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_POTTERY</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_EMPEROR</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_ANIMAL_HUSBANDRY</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_EMPEROR</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_POTTERY</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_IMMORTAL</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_MINING</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_IMMORTAL</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_ANIMAL_HUSBANDRY</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_IMMORTAL</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_POTTERY</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_DEITY</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_MINING</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_DEITY</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_ANIMAL_HUSBANDRY</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_DEITY</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_THE_WHEEL</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_DEITY</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_POTTERY</TechType> </Row> </HandicapInfo_AIFreeTechs>

Here is the G&K one. Not sure if it looks any different. No archery though.

-<HandicapInfo_AIFreeTechs> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_KING</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_POTTERY</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_EMPEROR</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_ANIMAL_HUSBANDRY</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_EMPEROR</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_POTTERY</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_IMMORTAL</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_MINING</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_IMMORTAL</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_ANIMAL_HUSBANDRY</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_IMMORTAL</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_POTTERY</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_DEITY</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_MINING</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_DEITY</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_ANIMAL_HUSBANDRY</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_DEITY</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_THE_WHEEL</TechType> </Row> -<Row> <HandicapType>HANDICAP_DEITY</HandicapType> <TechType>TECH_POTTERY</TechType> </Row> </HandicapInfo_AIFreeTechs>
 
I stumble into ruins, and a goddess descends to the ground from sky helping me set up a pantheon on turn 1, enraging the celts to the point of declaring war on me.

Reason: I found a pantheon before they could!
 
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