What to do with a continent to myself

loki75 said:
it was a huge map using "continent plus", I was alone on a continent which could accomodate 25+ cities with no AI and no CS. That was weird, and the barbs became a huge problem.
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A dream come true... with Ethiopia, Egypt or another faith civ u can spam those 25+ cities... :drool: no barb camps pop up when every tile is city spammed... Ethiopia is so awesome at spamming cities cuz of the faith that the UA is a teaser to fool people into going tall...

poor noobs on MP tell me I am foolish to spam civs with Ethiopia cuz I lose the combat bonus, but my armies are 2-3 times as big as theirs...:lol:

poor noobs tell me with so many cities I won't be getting many policies... yet I have the most policies of any MP player cuz I am buying culture/faith/happy buildings every few turns with my huge pile of faith...:crazyeye:
 
Going wide is definately the way to go with egypt and etiopia.
Considering how broken religion is with ics.
Egypt is a prime exsample. Anyone can get 1+1+3(4)=5(6) global happiness from religion per city. going liberty they also get 1 per city + a 5% discount per pop unhappiness.
Egypt also get 2 happiness from UB and 2 from colloseum, so now you have 10 happiness per city for a size 7 city with 5 followers.
As another civ without religion you are down to 2 per city. Needless to say unless you are playing a duel map you require a religion to compete, you also need to be first to found one. in MP you need to be first, in singleplayer you just need a bit of luck.

if you get an isolated start with that religion you flat out win even on diety.
 
AiTenshi1 said:
Um, yes, the RAs are THAT bugged. This has been confirmed. There is an entire thread about it. I am playing a strategy game, not a game of chance, so I do not feel like putting up with spending hours and hours playing only to have my entire game ruined by a random outcome. If I wanted to do that, I would just flip a coin rather than play.
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I'm well aware of the thread - I'm also well aware of my own in-game experience that tells me most RAs work perfectly fine under normal circumstances. In fact in all the RAs I've signed since G&K came out, I've had a weird result exactly ONCE. If you want to ignore them in your games that's your prerogative, but it's not good advice.

AiTenshi1 said:
I've explained how things work.
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You've explained how you think things work. I am saying you're looking at things bass-ackwards.

AiTenshi1 said:
You are not losing money by not meeting AIs and CSes that only cause problems for you.
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Yes you are. Regardless of the "problems" they are causing you, if you are sitting on extra resources, you are losing money.
AiTenshi1 said:
I think you are forgetting that you cannot sell luxuries in many cases once the AI finds you and does not like you expanding.
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On a Pangea, sure. But if you are isolated on your own continent, the AI rarely cares about expansion and most likely will want to be friendly.

AiTenshi1 said:
You wind up sitting on them anyway, but then you also have to put up with AIs and CSes draining your resources via wars and allied status, attacking you through religion, competing with you for territory and city sites, etc. I have 9000 gold presently because I have not needed to waste resources bickering with AIs about CS allegiance, DoWes, territories, etc. I also have most of the wonders (and I mean most, even ones I don't technically need) and am leading in tech by about an entire era.
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Again these argument kind of make sense on a pangea...but if you have a continent to yourself they are completely irrelevant.

AiTenshi1 said:
There is "nothing but an advantage" about intelligence gathering. Anything you gather, they can, too.
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There is a huge advantage. A human is much more effective at using intelligence to adapt a grand strategy then the AI is.

AiTenshi1 said:
Again, I explained all of this regarding the pros of being isolated and why it can be a huge advantage, assuming you adopt the proper strategies (which are different from strategies used when you are not isolated).
Sneak attacks? The AI cannot sneak attack me because I will see any attack coming and I am far ahead of any of them in tech.
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How do you see them coming if you never explored, don't know who is nearby, or their relative military strength?

AiTenshi1 said:
Your approach is trying to stick with non-isolated strategies even when you are actually isolated. This might be possible, but it is certainly not required, nor is it desirable since you have to actually waste time and resources to do it.You can, but I am advising that it is not the opportune approach or strategy in dealing with an isolated context. Adjust your view rather than trying to force usual strategies into the context.
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See this is where you are wrong. The adjustment you make when you are isolated is to make more of an effort to meet the other AIs faster, because it won't just happen naturally like on a pangea. The benefits are too good to pass up or delay. The time & cost of meeting the other civs is quite minimal. You can just buy a caravel and pay it off with a couple luxury sales. Everything after the first couple is pure profit. Let's not forget that typically the other civs will have luxuries to trade as well, so meeting other civs can also really help with happiness.
AiTenshi1 said:
It's far easier and much more fun than dealing with the usual AI shenanigans. At the very least, it's a change of pace because being isolated doesn't happen that often on many maps (i.e., anything aside from stuff like archipelago or small continent types of maps).
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That is the only thing you said that makes any sense. If you want to play that way because it's fun or a change of pace then go for it. But you really can't argue that it's the ideal strategy.
 
@chazzycat:

You are being rude, just fyi.

You are claiming I am wrong. No, or I would not be winning, obviously. Someone who succeeds using a different approach than yours isn't wrong, you know? Same thing with being the best strategy. Your approach is a very inefficient way to play an isolated position. I've stated the facts of how isolation works for you regarding religion, gold, resources, etc. I've stated the facts regarding the bugs with RAs, including that these bugs have been well-documented and reported. You offer anecdotes and personal choice.

If you want to play with other civs rather than isolated, just restart. The AI civs are nothing but constant warmongers. Being isolated allows you to play something other than a constant wargame. There's no point in wasting time and resources going out and looking for civs and CSes when they will find you quickly enough due to the fact that they have far more resources than you do.

Unless you are playing at low levels, of course... then you can get away with anything you like, pretty much.

At any rate, I am not going to bother explaining the facts of how I dominate an isolated game by using the context to my advantage rather than seeking out wasteful interactions when they are not needed in order to dominate. I'll just play and win, and you can play how you want, okay? :)
 
AiTenshi1 said:
If you want to play with other civs rather than isolated, just restart. The AI civs are nothing but constant warmongers. Being isolated allows you to play something other than a constant wargame. There's no point in wasting time and resources going out and looking for civs and CSes when they will find you quickly enough due to the fact that they have far more resources than you do.

Unless you are playing at low levels, of course... then you can get away with anything you like, pretty much.
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Hey, I'm all for playing as peaceful a game as possible, but I very rarely see the AIs go full-on warmonger mode in any game, let alone when I get an isolated start. Yes, once you get above King level you can pretty much be assured that you're going to be DoW'd at least once per game, and that it will usually happen relatively early in the game (when the AIs' starting bonuses still have them well ahead of you). That's a part of the game, and trying to avoid contact is only going to postpone that.

On the other hand, making contact early allows you to establish positive relations with other civs...particularly when your borders are far away from theirs. Exchanging embassies and making trade agreements work for you in more ways than just gaining extra gold (or happiness); they also sow the seeds for long-term friendship with most AI leaders. Making contact also allows you to get a good picture of what the AI's relationships are with each other, allowing you to get in on the more powerful bloc.

Ironically, it's at the lower levels where your strategy seems to make the most sense--a halfway decent human player is always going to build up a huge lead on levels below Prince, which has the effect of making all AI leaders angry at you. Thus, and because you'll rarely have anything to gain from trading/spying on AI civs at these levels, it makes sense to avoid contact for as long as possible. At the highest difficulties, I just don't see how it's possible to remain competitive without the extra income & happiness which trading gets you, particularly during the initial expansion rush up through the classical & medieval eras. This without even getting into how crucial CS alliances can be.

So long as you can get a few units into place to defend against the inevitable invasion, an early DoW isn't much of a hindrance at all & will often actually work in your favor (by making enemies of the warring leader more positive towards you and via the puppet cities you'll eventually gain from the war).
 
chazzycat said:
RAs aren't *THAT* bugged. There are some wonky outcome in the very late game but for the most part, they work as intended.

I also don't really understand your "downside" to meeting the AI. It doesn't make any sense. Who cares if get a DOW from a city state on the other side of the map? Regardless of RAs, you are just losing money for all the extra luxes & strategic resources you would be selling. If you are sitting on extra luxes they are doing nothing for you.

Also why wouldn't you want to know the critical info about the other AIs sooner? To give you more time to plan & react to their potential sneak attacks? Being aware of the geopolitical landscape is nothing but an advantage IMO.
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+16 trillion
 
@AiTenshi1
I apologize for the rudeness. Surely you can play your way & me mine. But you are claiming as fact that your strategy is the best, and then accuse me of the same thing? So I would recommend keeping an open mind to other opinions, and I will do my best to do the same. Although I'm quite sure you're wrong in this instance.
 
AiTenshi1 said:
Um, yes, the RAs are THAT bugged. This has been confirmed. There is an entire thread about it. I am playing a strategy game, not a game of chance, so I do not feel like putting up with spending hours and hours playing only to have my entire game ruined by a random outcome. If I wanted to do that, I would just flip a coin rather than play.

I've explained how things work. You are not losing money by not meeting AIs and CSes that only cause problems for you. I think you are forgetting that you cannot sell luxuries in many cases once the AI finds you and does not like you expanding. You wind up sitting on them anyway, but then you also have to put up with AIs and CSes draining your resources via wars and allied status, attacking you through religion, competing with you for territory and city sites, etc. I have 9000 gold presently because I have not needed to waste resources bickering with AIs about CS allegiance, DoWes, territories, etc. I also have most of the wonders (and I mean most, even ones I don't technically need) and am leading in tech by about an entire era.

There is "nothing but an advantage" about intelligence gathering. Anything you gather, they can, too. Again, I explained all of this regarding the pros of being isolated and why it can be a huge advantage, assuming you adopt the proper strategies (which are different from strategies used when you are not isolated). Sneak attacks? The AI cannot sneak attack me because I will see any attack coming and I am far ahead of any of them in tech.

Your approach is trying to stick with non-isolated strategies even when you are actually isolated. This might be possible, but it is certainly not required, nor is it desirable since you have to actually waste time and resources to do it. You can, but I am advising that it is not the opportune approach or strategy in dealing with an isolated context. Adjust your view rather than trying to force usual strategies into the context. It's far easier and much more fun than dealing with the usual AI shenanigans. At the very least, it's a change of pace because being isolated doesn't happen that often on many maps (i.e., anything aside from stuff like archipelago or small continent types of maps).
Click to expand...

The more civs that know the tech you are researching, the less beakers it requires. Considering that he is on an island you can assume that the AI will have great difficulty attacking him. 9000 gold not spent is 9000 gold wasted, CSes can prove valuable when you need the extra happiness or food to grow your cities, which is what you need for a tech victory.

The AI will also continuously buy your resources providing you are not expanding into them or converting them to your religion. The AI also does not realize when it has too much happiness.

chazzycat said:
@AiTenshi1
I apologize for the rudeness. Surely you can play your way & me mine. But you are claiming as fact that your strategy is the best, and then accuse me of the same thing? So I would recommend keeping an open mind to other opinions, and I will do my best to do the same. Although I'm quite sure you're wrong in this instance.
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+1
 
jango76 said:
Lol, indeed. AiTenshi1's understanding of the game seems to be somewhat... eccentric. :rolleyes:
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Diplomatic way of putting things. It would be nice if there was a sub-forum on civfanatics where some proof of game skill was required to post.

In my fantasy sub-forum, some acceptable proof:
1. finishing well on game-of-the-month
2. posting final save for win on deity (win doesn't include cooked settings)
3. provable performance in NQ or the League (league has rankings)
 
Silverfuturist said:
Diplomatic way of putting things. It would be nice if there was a sub-forum on civfanatics where some proof of game skill was required to post.

In my fantasy sub-forum, some acceptable proof:
1. finishing well on game-of-the-month
2. posting final save for win on deity (win doesn't include cooked settings)
3. provable performance in NQ or the League (league has rankings)
Click to expand...

That would be throwing the baby with the bathwater. Elitism is already a viral disease in many games, I honestly hope Civilization will still retain a semblance of sanity. It's one of the few forums where I don't see every thread that gets posted being trolled ad infinitum with 9gags on every other reply (but sometimes it's hard to be civil here too) so let's make it a better place :)
 
prince_caspian said:
That would be throwing the baby with the bathwater. Elitism is already a viral disease in many games, I honestly hope Civilization will still retain a semblance of sanity. It's one of the few forums where I don't see every thread that gets posted being trolled ad infinitum with 9gags on every other reply (but sometimes it's hard to be civil here too) so let's make it a better place :)
Click to expand...
I agree completely. CivFanatics is still one of the better gaming forums on the Internet. Most others I have been to is full of trolls who bash whatever is the focus of the forum website, as well as trolls who irrationally bash other games.
 
These good players should be able to express their opinions without falling back on I have a deity win so you should listen to me.
 
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