Is Mausoleum of Harlicarnassus underrated?

Playing a Diety Babylon game and I snuck this Wonder in because noone seemed to build it.

So far I've popped
4 artists
2 musicians
5 writers
12 scientists
3 prophets
4 engineers
1 general planted

So that is a total of 30 great people for 3000 gold total, it really has been a gift that keeps on giving especially since many early wonders only have very temporary effects (i mean who notices the Parthenon in the late game...)
It's most helpful I've found in allowing you to upgrade units or buy tiles, the things you hate spending gold on.
And as for purchasing units/ buildings Commerce and Big Ben stretches the value of that gold even further!

It's nice to get, but not essential. I'd strongly consider it if I've got four or more marble or stone on grassland. Getting such powerful tiles (MoH + Stoneworks + Stone circles = 2 food, 3 hammers, 2 gold and 2 faith on grassland stone, 2 food, 2 hammers, 4 gold and 2 faith on marble) so early in the game is a big boost, otherwise the effect doesn't really kick in until much later than the wonder becomes available, there are things to build that offer more immediate benefits.

It's good. Rarely built by others, including ai and people in multiplayer. It's really useful if you've got 3 or more quarry tiles. Id say its a must if youve got at least 3. I usually play religiously, so I get a lot of gold with prophets. And with your enhancer belief you can get 50 faith too. 100 gold and 50 faith per great person, now thats nice

Mausoleum of Harlicarnassus is actually quite good, but most of the time on Immortal+ the AI builds it too fast.

Pretty good gamble if I open Liberty and have some quarries. Otherwise, nearly never.

Planting the first general, farming out of the citadel, and cashing in on the 100 gold sounds good, now that you mention it.

Only if there's enough quarry tiles to benefit from it. Like MadHaxxor said, 3 or more then it becomes big. I play immortal and I can get this very consistently. If less than 3 quarry tiles, I would also consider building it if there's a CS quests


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Yes it's underrated. AI often builds it before me though... too many stuff to build in the first 100 turns.

Acken said:

too many stuff to build in the first 100 turns.

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This.

The return in gold to justify your 185 hammer investment is CLEARLY there, but there is a question of when, since there is opportunity cost and the time value of money. I'll assume a 4:1 gold-to-hammers purchase ratio for that point in the game. That implies you make 25 hammers back with every GP spent, and 1/2 hammer/turn per quarry. You can reasonably expect to burn 2 prophets, plant a general, and one GE/GS over the next 85 turns. With 2 quarries, that makes up the balance: 185 hammers. But then there's the CS quests: I would place a value of 300 gold in completing them. That's 75 hammers. The potential is there. Mausoleum could be a flop because you didn't make your 185 hammers back until 100 turns later, but it could also hit ut big, too.

Acken said:

Yes it's underrated. AI often builds it before me though... too many stuff to build in the first 100 turns.

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Yeah, I always think about it and never start it

I don't like the Merchant point and working the quarries can restrict growth. I usually pass on it.

It's rare for quarries to be bad tiles you don't want to work.

At Prince Difficulty Level (and above) I feel that there are simply better Gold Making Wonders to build such as The Great Lighthouse, The Colossus, Angkor Wat, and Machu Picchu. I think this is why the MoH doesn't get much love.

DarkestOnion said:

At Prince Difficulty Level (and above) I feel that there are simply better Gold Making Wonders to build such as The Great Lighthouse, The Colossus, Angkor Wat, and Machu Picchu. I think this is why the MoH doesn't get much love.

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Angkor Wat and GL don't really make gold.
If you have to research masonry for quarry then you are not wasting tech for MoH, and coupled with Ai tending to prioritize it slower than other mentioned wonders, you can get it consistently (immortal, less so on deity). Machu Picchu is very good, but you don't always get a mountain in range, especially not your capital. If you happen to get mountain in range for your 2nd or 3rd city, the production from those cities might not be enough for you to build it competitively.
Though not making gold, GL is a good wonder but unless the free lighthouse will be useful in your capital, I'd skip it. It's a very competitive wonder to begin with and if you are not coastal or on water-heavy map, going to the uppermost part of the tech tree will be wasteful on your research points.
Colossus is very good, but also very competitive and will delay NC unfortunately.

amphreded said:

Angkor Wat and GL don't really make gold.
If you have to research masonry for quarry then you are not wasting tech for MoH, and coupled with Ai tending to prioritize it slower than other mentioned wonders, you can get it consistently (immortal, less so on deity). Machu Picchu is very good, but you don't always get a mountain in range, especially not your capital. If you happen to get mountain in range for your 2nd or 3rd city, the production from those cities might not be enough for you to build it competitively.
Though not making gold, GL is a good wonder but unless the free lighthouse will be useful in your capital, I'd skip it. It's a very competitive wonder to begin with and if you are not coastal or on water-heavy map, going to the uppermost part of the tech tree will be wasteful on your research points.
Colossus is very good, but also very competitive and will delay NC unfortunately.

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Angkor Wat saves gold on tile purchasing (an often neglected strategy-brutally when you are playing America btw) and a penny saved is a penny earned.

The Great Lighthouse gives you a Great Merchant Point and that means more Great Merchants which means more Gold.

I agree that many Wonders (including Machu Picchu) are of course very situational based upon things like geography and difficulty level.

To me, MoH is one of those Wonders that seems most used by people who play at Prince- and who also prefer a Wonder Spam strategy. I had to break my habit of Wonder Spamming to learn how to play all the way to Deity, so I try to help people stop smoking what I call the Wonder Crack

Great merchants are very very bad. And MoH also give great merchant point if for some reason you want to generate one (venice). Finally Angkor wat comes too late, costing a crapload of hammers for very little return to be even slightly interesting.

Colossus and Machu Pichu are great wonders.

imo great merchant's trade mission is very underwhelming and doesn't convince me to go for it. if i could get them more regularly it might be. but fact is that GM points are generated by specialists, specialists eat up tiles that can be worked and reduce growth of city, and if i'm gonna use a specialist it's always going to be any and all of the science ones.

in a typical game i am seldom selecting any specialist except science. when you play on emperor+, you are always racing against the AI, trying to catch up on tech, so can't afford to stifle growth with anything except that which boosts your science output.

i might grab one in a workshop for great engineer. great scientist and great engineer are just so much more attractive than any other great person.


another point i would make is that you have to research masonry to get halicarnassus. in my experience most of the time you do not hit a quarry on your first city, so it will not be a priority. if you are v. close to a neighbour you think you may need walls built but there are so many more important things to get built at the point where you are considering taking masonry when having no quarries e.g. military units, settlers, more workers. when the basic granary and library is online, you've grabbed a worker or two, got your shrine up, maybe monument or FREE in tradition, you are looking to expand, not turtle and build wonders.

Nah the problem isn't the fact that they require specialist slots. The problem is that Great merchants, engineer and scientifics are all on the same counter. Generating a great merchant will diminish the number of Great scientists you can get. And it's not even a debate that a GS is miles away more useful than a GMerch.
If great merchants had their own counter I would be happy to make some even if they are not fantastic.

Yes I see the point about Great Merchants. but this was a very interesting Diety game. I selected nearly all warmongers (Aztecs, Huns, Assyria, Germany, Mongols) and also raging barbs. Great Library went early but none of the other wonders seemed to be built. So I was actually able to get Temple of Artemis, then Hanging Gardens, then Mausoleum, then Oracle and then Hagia Sophia.

The engineer from Artemis popped later and I was able to get Leaning Tower and used a free engineer from that to get the Forbidden City since I had happiness problems and Notre Damn was taken.

I think it was an unusual game that I was able to get so many wonders. But as Babylon once I got my universities staffed there was no-way that a Great Merchant was ever going to pop so I didn't have to worry about that.
I think it was the map that helped me. I had 2 mountain ranges that protected my capital from any attack. It really was an amazing start I had a mountain range to my East that almost completely shielded me from the Aztecs (I only had to park a unit on the 1 tile hill pass between the mountains. I had mountains on the East also that protected me from anyone coming from that direction! (the Aztecs did declare war on me, their allied citystate nearly took my 3rd city but Walls of Babylon & Bowmen saved it).
I was quite behind in science but all my 4 cities had mountains adjacent so it didn't bother me that I didn't get the National College until turn 120. I know that is really late but with 4 observatories you know you can catch up later.