Von Münchhausen II

Nah, these are not the droids you're looking for. You want to go settler then archer in the capital, worker in the second city. Research masonry then archery. Scout to the southwest, find Ramesses...

We need to get a teamdecision on that, but I'm not against it, I would love to settle Ivory-coast....NEXT W TO THE CAMP!

But you guys might have different ideas and I need to know them, cause I'm playing tomorrow.....no matter what you say....I will run out of time otherwise.

So. Please make a decision, I will play after that and you don't know how much I can mess up in 10 turns.

:gripe:
 
I agree with NotSure. Only possibly warrior-settler-archer, if preferred. Settle that ivory site.
Then we should finish the monument in Sukhothai. We need to not forget that. It might be just 3-4 turns now to do and we should squeeze it in.

I personally would not be in a rush to get education. We still get free wats so we will get them much faster than normal anyway and at no hammer cost. Also we need to get a sound economy going before we get them. 4 wats will take 8gpt away from us overnight. It might be nice to be able to get 4 free wats then be bale to build Oxford Wat (??).
 
What nobody seems to have addressed yet is whether we should buy the Cerro de Petosi or not. We might need to do that anyway, it's not likely to get taken in any time soon. With Civil Service and working a river-farm we'll still be growing Si Sachanalai (spelling?) It looks like the sooner we're buying, the more we're making.

Are we still having a majority for finishing research on Masonry first? I never thought that was going to be in doubt, the 4 happy from the Marble seems so crucial for us.
Maybe the people who suggested Archery forgot we haven't got the marble yet? Otherwise, the difference between a warrior and an archer isn't that big if you still have to start building your military anyway. If Masonry > Archery was meant, then okay.
I'm not sure about expansion, it's good in one way but so difficult in another. Say we get 4 cities up, we will be in the red for ages. Unhappiness, I mean which mean less growth and less money.
We'll have about 30 available happiness at the locations we've identified.
Obviously we all want to expand, but how to time things is the discussion here.
I think we all see the happiness in the luxes surrounding us, but there's some time involved in actually claiming this happiness. A worker needs to finish a current project, then make his way over to, say, the ivory, then another 6 turns later or so the lux is hooked up.
That's a fair number of turns, much more than it takes to do a circus in the capital, if that would just keep us above the red line.
Claiming a good location is worth a little unhappiness, but I don't believe in systematically doing this town after town. Expansion, okay, but I would like to balance it with happiness. That means doing something to get us at +4 before plopping down something new. When we do have options, like working the marble or building a circus, which can even be done in the time a settler walks over to a spot, then why not take these?
Anyway, sorry if this sounds like a repeat, but you guys didn't speak anymore about hooking up the marble or building a circus, so I wonder where this fitted in in the ideas of others.
Then we should finish the monument in Sukhothai. We need to not forget that. It might be just 3-4 turns now to do and we should squeeze it in.
3 turns is all, that's true, but that's also half a circus or stone works. Military I haven't even spoken about, since we're 100% certain Elizabeth will not attack us. ;) We have a lot of other pressing needs. We won't forget the monument. Maybe I'll put another turn in it in my set, with the strictest order to you to do the last turn! :lol:
 
sorry guys, I would love to play in this sg, school is starting to become even more intense...so I'll keep tuned, but won't be playing...you guys can play 15 turns again!
However, I'll keep an eye on this and might leave some suggestions, if needed :D
 
Since the server was down for most of the weekend, I gave it another day to see if there was any new ideas. Couldn't see any, so I played my turns.

Before pressing enter, I swap a citizen in Cap to marble, to give us +2gpt.

Turn1: We get the Great Library and we take Archery as discussed. Start a warrior - 4 turns.



Haha, we take Civil Service. :) And enter Medieval era at turn 41!



Masonry is down to 4 turns compared to the 8 turns beforehand. Move units around, scarcher and warrior are going to check out the ivory barbcamp. Scout is going E, just to maybe see a little bit more of the sealine, that mountainrange in SE of the continent is impassible before optics.

Turn2: Send scout back west, he better check out England. Otherwise nothing.

Turn3 : Can see Egyptian borders to the very west, better get that settler soonish if we want ivory.

Turn4: IT, a barb from the camp attacked our warrior, who got a beating, only to leave the camp open for the scarcher. A silly barbboat is sitting closeby, more xp for the scarcher. We take the 25g and raze the camp.

Turn5: Finish Masonry -> Archery 2 turns.

Sukhotai warrior -> settler, going to finish that settler quicker with a chop.

SiSatch monument -> warrior, we get a worker from policy next turn, so we will improve the cows very soon there.
As the city is now pop2, I buy CdP for 165g and lock the tile, we have 17gpt! In about 15-16 turns that money will be repaid and then the rest is bonus. I hope this was the right decision, it sounded like ppl wanted this.

Turn6: Got the free worker, he will start chopping the riverforest next turn so we get the settler a little bit earlier.

Now silly Lizzy is sending a settler to our east, she will most likely put that town in the worst spot possible, but ah well.



Turn7: We finish Archery -> Calendar for Stone works and our future lux. Wheel would've been ok, if we had any horses, but we sold them :)
We meet Tyre up north and they send us 15g.

Worker start chopping by the Cap, the other start improving cows in SiSatch. The barbcamp NE of there is destroyed by someone.
Scarcher is upgraded to Accuracy1.

Lizzy's settler is frozen in place, don't know what's going on.

Turn8: Scarcher killed the barbgalley, Lizzy decided to move on....don't know why she stopped for a turn. Maybe to hear us whinge?

Turn9: Scarcher checking out Ramses, a settler is on his way! :( We need to block that somehow. Our settler due next turn.

Turn10: Oh yeah, Egypt decides to go NW with the settler, ours is ready and on the way. Start circus in Cap, just for fun.

It will take the settler some 6-7 turns to get to his spot, 1W of the tile where the warrior heals.

1 turn to Calendar, what's next?

 

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Well played Gozpel, but surely Lizzie would be the one doing the whingeing being a Pom and all that. I think buying the cdP once we reach 2 pop was the best choice. We could have used that money to ally Sydney but we don't have the happiness to use all that food and I think they didn't hook up their incense yet. When the CdP pays itself off we can then use it to ally Sydney.

It looks like Lizzie might go for the sugars, I think the plains hill around the gems is actually a workable site. This is also a nice map script, I really wonder what lies beyond that ring of mountains in the south east.
 
Lizzy went further down south, hopefully settling a town in between 2 gems, this city was already in my books. If she screws it up, then raze.

If Lizzy finds our sweet spot over there, then we have to declare on her, sooner or later. We go for her Cap and "if" she is hurt enough, we might get that city for free, in negotiations.

But, I'm sure she will settle the wrong spot anyways....the AI always does.
 
It's really bizarre to see England walking into our natural territory to settle, but this map is a bit tight on space. If Ghandi settles the sugars we will have to get creative for a 4th city site.
 
It's really bizarre to see England walking into our natural territory to settle, but this map is a bit tight on space. If Ghandi settles the sugars we will have to get creative for a 4th city site.

In worst case our 4th city has to be taken, it's not like we're running a culture challenge here?

There is still one spot open to the west, by a river and lots of hills. But 3 cities would be enough for me atm, build them up and go for puppets. I would probably kill India, burn England except the cap...Egypt, I don't know.
 
3 cities and puppets is also fine I think. 3 free wats and a monument is still a good deal if we decide to build up some military instead of getting a 4th city down.
 
I think we need optics soon, to see what's beyond that range SE, if there are contacts to made, we should make them first.

War, I think we should some time denounce England and then take her Cap, let her keep whatever until we can send a settler to an island and give her that spot. At home we raze those silly cities...but this has to happen in one war, so that's why I like early optics.

My missus hates you, her bday and here I sit and ramble...

"physically kicked off"
 
Nice looking set. Go go GLib!

Bloody Liz. Good job Rammy is heading away from our elephant site.

I'll peak at the save and give some comments/thoughts later
 
Well played!
We should of course never forget that with building the Great Library there is a price to be paid, we couldn't use those 185 hammer for units, so we are weaker in that respect now.

Ramesses is probably still going for the ivory, but is just circumnavigating the Indian scout. That's typical AI behaviour, they make a move every turn, even when it would be handier to wait.
But it looks like it's possible to block Ramesses path with the scout-archer and a warrior who is on the way. We should still get a town at the ivory. The question is; where? I don't think we all have spoken. Here's a dotmap with a few options:
Spoiler :
Yellow I left there from a previous dotmap, but I'm not sure we should still do yellow, if the silk can already get taken in by either blue, orange or red.
Between blue, orange and red I favour blue personally. It's cheaper to connect, on the river, the most productive spot and by far the easiest to defend.
Orange and red both have the advantage that they take in an additional ivory. Gozpel spoke in favour of orange before. Others' opinions I'm not sure about.

About research I don't think I've read many ideas at all. We can go The Wheel > Horseback Riding now, we can also go straight to Theology. I don't care an awful lot personally for Sailing > Optics, because we can just explore over land, going south-west.
I prefer The Wheel > Horseback Riding personally, so we can get a few horsies out for later upgrading to Naresuan's. We get our horses back in 6 turns, I believe, but I'm tempted to resell 3 of them, as we still won't come around to horses that soon; we still have a stone works to build, a monument to finish, we will need another worker...

Err... got the save, I should say. Will probably play tomorrow.
 
So to address Optionals points:

Tech. I'm happy with going The Wheel > HBR. Its not like we're in a postion to take advantage of a rush to Education anyway.

For the dot map I'd go Orange as my first choice. Get that camping warrior over to help the scracher settler blocking ASAP.

Do we want Sukho producing a Circus now? I know we'll need :) but since we just teched Archery maybe we should be building some archers first?

In Si Sat I would suggest working the Stone till the Cows for the extra hammer.

We're also about to lose Sydney. If we sell our OB to Liz for 27 we can throw 250 at them this turn.
 
I prefer the blue site for the trade route efficiency and defensive features. We can get there quicker and buy the horses.

I agree we should go straight to Chivalry and build CA & horsemen. Maybe we could get away with selling the horses again, but I don't like it. I would prefer to have those resources available right now.

We can sell an ivory (if we can settle the spot first), and there are some sites with extra gems that we could sell to our east eventually. Have we sold OB to Ramesses and Gandhi? I don't like selling them to unfriendly AI. Liz has a choice here soon to attack Gandhi or harass us with the stupid early rush. I think maybe we encourage a rush if we give Liz a look at our cities.

We have 4 turns into that warrior? I'm guessing it's only about 7:c5production: with only 2 citizens (one on CdP). Maybe start whittling away at a worker there and switch to a CA when the wheel is done? I'm only mentioning this because we might be able to get 8 horse units. Units obviously cost maintenance. If we focus on units that we can upgrade and use, then our strategy is more efficient, right? I think it would be best to get as many NE as we can and the next priority for units should be ranged units.

Last thing... 10 GPT is nice, and it's great to have the option to throw a citizen on that tile if we need to. We should keep a close eye on that city though, and bump that citizen onto some production and food every now and then so we can actually get something done there.
 
As ppl here seem to like closer settling than I'm used to, I think blue is just as good as any spot.

Research, I only mentioned Optics because there is surely something beyond that range, most likely another CS or two. But we rather get some army assembled and I'm happy to go towards the phants. My point on the orange was that we could hook up more horses straight away, but that is still doable with blue dot and buying a tile.

The circus is a good placeholder, but if we want archers, that's ok too.

So go for it. :)
 
Ya, I always find myself wanting to embark so I can explore more. We can't really afford to get off track though. The starting territory we landed on is kind of crowded and there's gonna be some fighting soon. It'll be a great opportunity for us if we're ready. Ramesses might build us some good wonders and I always enjoy shutting Liz up.

I don't know why I guessed 7:c5production: on that warrior. I guess I wasn't counting the city tile production. Anyway, it's probably half finished. We can always throw him at one of Liz's wounded units and get at least one kill out of him.

One other thing I forgot to ask. Should we go to 15 turns now?
 
Trouble with blue is it is no longer coastal. Maybe not that big of a deal on Pangaea but it might be nice to have at least 1 coastal city.

I'm not so sure that OB affects DoW anymore. Could be wrong but I thought they already know your strength with out seeing your units etc.
 
I would say that going to 15 turns now would be the wrong way round! Its usually more than 10 at the start (number of players dependent of course) and when a couple of cities are down and more is happening you drop to 10. Of course if we all want more turns per set its not a problem.
 
If this was my own game, 1E of CdP would've been settled before SiSatch, then ivorytown would've been next. No trying for GLib. I did a try and I have 3 cities, all with workers and happy is +1. Not sure if that is possible tho, to keep them cities happy.

Except if I try the sugarspot..then it may be possible.

BUT, this was a playthrough, without looking further than the savestop.

3 cities by turn 50 is not unreal, but to keep them happy at that time is very unreal.

So, in our game, I understand Optional's views, we will go red hard if we plant more cities, even this one, so we need workers more than archers.

How do we tackle this problem?
 
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