[TOT] The Test Of Time Patch Project

It would be neat if we were able to include config files for the patch that were unique to each scenario. This would save players from having to look up install directions and manually configure the patch for each scenario they play that uses this patch's features.

... A warning about Civil Disorder the turn *before* it erupts? (No, I don't want to think about how many times I've reloaded for this! )
... And *not* a pop-up warning; that'd be like curing a headache by shooting yourself in the foot. Ideally it'd be a small red text in the lower right corner or something: 'Warning: London and Paris will go into civil disorder next turn -- unless measures are taken, sire!'

EZRhino said:

It would be neat if we were able to include config files for the patch that were unique to each scenario. This would save players from having to look up install directions and manually configure the patch for each scenario they play that uses this patch's features.

Click to expand...

I second that. As a designer, I hope to apply the features of ToTPP in a way that is specific to each scenario, eg. road/railway/river movement. Players often switch between more than one scenario game-in-progress, and back to vanilla civ, so re-configuring each time will be tiresome and a real test of memory (or organization).

Would it be possible to build in the functions of ToTPP utilized by the designer for a specific scenario into the .Scn file when it is saved? If possible, it would make ToTPP far more scenario friendly.

Hello!

Sure. Up to this point, most patches only read new settings from places (rules.txt mostly); they didn't need to keep track of in-game changes. Some patches/requests do need this, and that requires writing data to the saved game. For example, the attacks-per-turn patch needs to store how many attacks have been used by a unit, otherwise you could load a game and suddenly have all attacks available again.

Now, to just have patches store their data in the saved game by themselves is not a very good idea, since every modification would basically create a new version of the saved game format. Since patches can be enabled/disabled individually in the launcher, multiple patches changing the format would create an exponential number of incompatible formats.

Much better is to create one patch to handle the process of reading/writing data, and have other patches depend on it. Now we just have one new version of the format, patches don't have to reinvent the wheel when reading/writing data, and the game can report which patches need to be enabled when loading a game with extension data.

Click to expand...

For me, that sounded like "If Test of Time loaded by that ToTPP, and if a Scenario loaded by
that ToTPP, automatically checked in .SAV Storage which Patches to enable or not".

The most Patches of ToTPP seem senseless to me to enable or not.
I think, TheNamelessOne grew a little crazy to pose all that Stuff... and you have to check
about 50 little On or Off Switchers... thats not necessary i think.

I mean, Throneroom, or Stack Kills! The most ToTPP Patches are just awesome,
why to let that ToTPP Pop Up at the Beginning ask, every Time, which to enable or not?
All Patches make Sense, End of that Story!

I would prefer, that ToTPP would just open.
Since Version 0.10 no civ2.exe works with ToTPP on my System, i would have to re-install
like that Catfish tells, on my c: Drive in a special Folder, from CD, so that the 1.1 Patch could hit,
and then perhaps the ToTPP would even KNOW my civ2.exe and initialize... then i have to
check 50 Boxes in the Menu ToTPP to enable... Things which should just all be included from
the Beginning... TheNamelessOne collected these senseful Things to pose a little, but all that
Stuff is "just awesome Fixes" which should be enabled anyway i think.

In my Opinion, the ToTPP should just open, like a usual .exe, with all civ2.exes.
Like it was in the most Versions before 0.10. No Check Boxes!
The one Half of all of these Check Boxes is just useful Fixes, necessary for a better Civ2.
The other Half of all of these Check Boxes is Cosmics, and i would prefer to just handle that
in the Rules.txt, so that you as a Modder or Player could have one single whole Rules.txt
with Zero Values like 0=disabled, which to enable when necessary.

So no special civ2.exe required, and no Check Boxes required, just to implement necessary
Fixes, a kind of aggressive, like Hostility Fix, Steal Tec Fix, all that Stuff, why to enable in the
first Place necessary Fixes? And just to have a Look into the Rules.txt and into the .SAV Game,
how to handle all that Stuff.

I would like, that ToTPP just loads, double-click, Test of Time opens.
No civ2.exe Check to see, that 10 different .exes are unknown, and just one not.
No 50 Check Boxes. Just ToTPP opens, and handles all civ2.exes, and handles all these Fixes
just, that Fixes are implemented anyway, and all that Cosmic Stuff by a fullsize Rules.txt.



You know what i mean?
The one Half is Fixes necessarily given to ANY better Civ2.
The other Half is "just" Cosmics in Rules.txt.

So why not enable just ALL THE STUFF?

The ToTPP opens with any civ2.exe, and loads all the Stuff, just opens, and loads all.

And the ToTPP stores with any civ2.exe, all these Fixes and Cosmics the same Way,
all the Fixes and Cosmics, in any .SAV, just the same Way, and Loading, also.

The Fixes are necessary for a better Civ2 Gaming, and the Cosmics could be changed,
just in Rules.txt, 0=disabled, 1 or higher, enabled or Multiplier.

So all civ2.exes would work, all Patches would simply work, and ToTPP would just open.
The NamelessOne in his awesome Wizards Rush, had quite Fun to pose all his great done Works,
but its not necessary to check 50 "Patches"!!! Thats just Posing...

One ToTPP, just opening any civ2.exe, just loading any Patches, just opens.
Saves and loads ever the same Way, no Confusion there, and if you want to disable,
enable or change, you just open the ONE TRUE NEW RULES.TXT FULLSIZE!

That would be perfect i think.



Yes, the really best Way would be, to implement any Patches right into a New Rules.txt
Fullsize... so the Storage with any civ2.exe and any .SAV would be the same.
ToTPP would just open and work with any Version. And a Modder could just do, what he
or she ever does: Implement his or her New Rules.txt Fullsize into his or her Scenario Folder!

And out of that Rules.txt, any Changes would be disabled or enabled.

I think, thats the Key: The Rules.txt.

la raven said:

Spoiler :

Hello!



For me, that sounded like "If Test of Time loaded by that ToTPP, and if a Scenario loaded by
that ToTPP, automatically checked in .SAV Storage which Patches to enable or not".

The most Patches of ToTPP seem senseless to me to enable or not.
I think, TheNamelessOne grew a little crazy to pose all that Stuff... and you have to check
about 50 little On or Off Switchers... thats not necessary i think.

I mean, Throneroom, or Stack Kills! The most ToTPP Patches are just awesome,
why to let that ToTPP Pop Up at the Beginning ask, every Time, which to enable or not?
All Patches make Sense, End of that Story!

I would prefer, that ToTPP would just open.
Since Version 0.10 no civ2.exe works with ToTPP on my System, i would have to re-install
like that Catfish tells, on my c: Drive in a special Folder, from CD, so that the 1.1 Patch could hit,
and then perhaps the ToTPP would even KNOW my civ2.exe and initialize... then i have to
check 50 Boxes in the Menu ToTPP to enable... Things which should just all be included from
the Beginning... TheNamelessOne collected these senseful Things to pose a little, but all that
Stuff is "just awesome Fixes" which should be enabled anyway i think.

In my Opinion, the ToTPP should just open, like a usual .exe, with all civ2.exes.
Like it was in the most Versions before 0.10. No Check Boxes!
The one Half of all of these Check Boxes is just useful Fixes, necessary for a better Civ2.
The other Half of all of these Check Boxes is Cosmics, and i would prefer to just handle that
in the Rules.txt, so that you as a Modder or Player could have one single whole Rules.txt
with Zero Values like 0=disabled, which to enable when necessary.

So no special civ2.exe required, and no Check Boxes required, just to implement necessary
Fixes, a kind of aggressive, like Hostility Fix, Steal Tec Fix, all that Stuff, why to enable in the
first Place necessary Fixes? And just to have a Look into the Rules.txt and into the .SAV Game,
how to handle all that Stuff.

I would like, that ToTPP just loads, double-click, Test of Time opens.
No civ2.exe Check to see, that 10 different .exes are unknown, and just one not.
No 50 Check Boxes. Just ToTPP opens, and handles all civ2.exes, and handles all these Fixes
just, that Fixes are implemented anyway, and all that Cosmic Stuff by a fullsize Rules.txt.



You know what i mean?
The one Half is Fixes necessarily given to ANY better Civ2.
The other Half is "just" Cosmics in Rules.txt.

So why not enable just ALL THE STUFF?

The ToTPP opens with any civ2.exe, and loads all the Stuff, just opens, and loads all.

And the ToTPP stores with any civ2.exe, all these Fixes and Cosmics the same Way,
all the Fixes and Cosmics, in any .SAV, just the same Way, and Loading, also.

The Fixes are necessary for a better Civ2 Gaming, and the Cosmics could be changed,
just in Rules.txt, 0=disabled, 1 or higher, enabled or Multiplier.

So all civ2.exes would work, all Patches would simply work, and ToTPP would just open.
The NamelessOne in his awesome Wizards Rush, had quite Fun to pose all his great done Works,
but its not necessary to check 50 "Patches"!!! Thats just Posing...

One ToTPP, just opening any civ2.exe, just loading any Patches, just opens.
Saves and loads ever the same Way, no Confusion there, and if you want to disable,
enable or change, you just open the ONE TRUE NEW RULES.TXT FULLSIZE!

That would be perfect i think.



Yes, the really best Way would be, to implement any Patches right into a New Rules.txt
Fullsize... so the Storage with any civ2.exe and any .SAV would be the same.
ToTPP would just open and work with any Version. And a Modder could just do, what he
or she ever does: Implement his or her New Rules.txt Fullsize into his or her Scenario Folder!

And out of that Rules.txt, any Changes would be disabled or enabled.

I think, thats the Key: The Rules.txt.

Click to expand...

If I may answer for TNO: while you might think that e.g. stack kills is a no-brainer fix, some other person might well disagree, considering it a downgrade or, at best, a too-far-gone diversion from original Civ II rules. I think it's good to have options. Having most boxes checked when you install would be nice though, perhaps. Certainly when there's over a 100.

As for the Rules.txt stuff, as I understood it, you mean that the @COSMIC2 section is automatically added to Rules.txt upon ToTPP installation, and all the entries that go within it default to 0? While there must be some reason why the entries have to be manually added, even after enabling the relevant fixes/features in the ToTPP Launcher, I'm pretty sure TNO could make it happen that they're automatically put into Rules.txt. I'd support this, since I have to re-install ToT and ToTPP from time to time due to screwing something up (right now it claims that it couldn't open Civ2.exe for some reason).


In other news, the map is coming along, though rl has intervened somewhat. One new annoyance I've found out is that due to the limited amount of possible new terrains, I'll have to resort to using a terrain type for a resource at least once... So 'Cotton' is a terrain type that can have Silk and Uranium on it. This would be fine if it didn't say

Cotton
(Silk)

Click to expand...

when you click on the square, leading to utter confusion. I suppose nothing can be done about this without adversely affecting other stuff, but anyways.

What would go a long way to settle the 'too few terrains' issue is if I could manually place the different parts of an 'overlay' type terrain, without regard to their adjacent pieces. This would make one terrain type into 16, effectively. Then I'd have more terrains than I'd know what to do with (assuming of course that the graphics can be found/made/altered). I suspect though that this can't be altered?

I would disagree...
I like to overwhelm the Human Player by Rush Enemy AI Troopers... so i like a possible Stack Kill.

But YES. What if TNO reaches someday the 100 Patches magic Wonderland?
He had the Problem occurring, that to handle any Patches with any civ2.exe, he´d get
one thousand Incompatibility Issues. So he fixed the Problem by using just one possible .exe!

Problem: I will just NEVER install on my SSD c: Drive just for OS, from my poor 15 Years old >
CD !!! a virgin .exe just to get an Install c: Entry OS to get that Patch 1.1 to run, to get that
ToTPP to run! Thats just incredibly restrictive and will just kill 99 Percent of all the last
Civ2 Fanatics... i, personally, think. Thats not a Way that Thing might happen ever.

I download the english Civ2 Test of Time Version, its a No-CD Crack .exe, just unpack that
.rar on my F: Drive and play! Yes, i use the No-CD increased Resources .exe, without CD.
And i think, the most Civ2 Fanatics, too. That 64bit, CPU Fix, End of the Story.

To treat ToTPP in that Way, is just "insane"... you cannot expect from a little Guy out there,
not understanding nothing, that hes a PC Pro, that he even READS the Manuals, that he would
just quite EVER understand to get that ToTPP to run!
In my Opinion, you can just forget to frozen Hell, that so-called "Solution", to fix that
Incompatibility Problem by one working .exe! Yes, you´d fix it, and no simple Guy out there,
will get that to run... thats a Fact. They JUST NEVER READ the Manuals, and just arent Pros!

So TNO fixed his Incomp Prob, to let just one .exe work. And to give in-game or whatever,
a Pop Up which Patches must be activated, to get a Scenario .SAV or .SCN to run!

Solution: Automatically loaded Patches. ToTPP reads the .exe to "understand", if it will work
with that .exe, and reads the .SAV or .SCN, so it "knows", which Patches to enable.

Or, yes, to write automatically into the Rules.txt, the Cosmic Parameters.

But i would prefer: That all these Fixes just run. Stack Kill for Example would be a
Stack Kill,0 in my Cosmics. I would suggest, that the whole Community decides,
which Fixes are absolutely necessary for a better Civ2 Gaming and should just be implemented,
so that TNO could spare these Check Boxes, and which Patches should be disabled or enabled
by Rules.txt, and therefor, a disable enable Multiplier Rules.txt should be written, got it?

The one Half, Fixes, just implemented, Check Boxes spared.
The other Half, Patches, just implemented by Rules.txt in Background to disable and enable,
like Stack Kills, impassable Terrain for all Units, hidden Health Bars, extra Terrain, Defense
Multipliers... all that Stuff. I just would implement all Fixes, which are necessary to make the
Game better... like that Path Finder, AI Hostility, Steal Tec, Throneroom, and would just
implement all Patches, but would give the Option to enable/disable in a Rules.txt,
which includes just any Options to enable/disable.

So the ToTPP just opens with any .exe, just loads, just opens.
And saves and loads just the whole Palette, stored ever the same Way. The necessary Fixes
just are implemented, the Patches work, by enable/disable by Rules.txt, and so...

the ToTPP is just the brandnew, original new civ2.exe... and the Rules.txt, with ALL NEW
PARAMETERS, to enable/disable, with ALL NEW LINES, is just the brandnew, original new Rules.txt.

- There would be no Need anymore to give a Pop Up with 100 Check Boxes.

- There would be no Need anymore to give a Pop Up in-game which Check Boxes to enable
or handle that automatically.

- There would be no Need anymore to fix that restrictive on just one .exe.

The usual Fixes would just run. The usual Patches would just be enabled/disabled in Rules.txt,
ToTPP would just be the one and only new civ2.exe, and the FULLSIZE Rules.txt, would just be
the whole new, fullsize new Rules.txt, with all Parameters already written in.

Not necessary, to write them in, by ToTPP automatically in Rules.txt, and not necessary,
to load the Checks automatically by ToTPP by Loading a .SAV or .SCN -
Just a ToTPP double-click opens Test of Time, the Fixes just run, and the Patches will or wont work,
just by enabled/disabled Rules.txt Lines, which are ALL just implemented in Rules.txt already,
to easily find them, easily mod them. And the Storages of any .SAV or .SCN would just include,
EVER, THE WHOLE PALETTE and would NEVER be different from each other.

So what! Then i´ll get instead of a 0,5 MB .SAV, a 1 MB .SAV... ? So what!





@Metro Polis

I suggest to use only Test of Time. That Game is nothing but a Civ2 MGE Super Plus.
More Maps. More Events.txt Orders and Heap. Exceeded Resources. And any Unit
includes its own Sound already! I just wonder, that it can be, that the most Civ2 Fanatics
still think with Civ2 MGE or Fantastic Worlds... Test of Time is just a Super Plus!
You´d have nothing to spare, but much to win! Just download that Thing and be happy!





@TNO

Same Thing with ToTPP. In my Opinion, that Patcher is nothing but a Civ2 ToT Super Plus.
And just the new Game! Just implement the just have to be implemented Fixes.
Just implement the whole Rest of the Show into the Rules.txt. There is nothing complicated!
Its just the new 64bit, CPU and all the other Fixes, Test of Time Game!

MGE > ToT > ToTPP ! Thats quite "simple Evolution"! I dont need 100 Check Boxes,
and one single .exe and ten thousand different Storages, i just need a running Game,
and all that new Stuff implemented, so that either it runs easily, or is implemented easily already,
for an easy Usage! It just should run easily, as the Test of Time Evolution, and should
just implement easily all the new Stuff... an easy running Evolution!

MGE > ToT > ToTE !

Edit: Obsolete stuff.

I think the boxes are okay as long as you don't know how the AI gets along with the changes.

Hello. New here. First, I'd like to thank TheNamelessOne for all his effort and amazing work, especially for custom resources. I have a few questions though:

A) Is it possible somehow to show all hidden flags of the game? Like "Free maintenance under x civic", "+% on Food/Prod/Trade" etc?

I want to, say, create a new Wonder/City improv, or alter the current ones. e.g. The Colossus should be able to be build only in coastal cities, much like the Harbor, or add a new one, for example "The Internet", that acts as a library in every city.

B) Can I change the numbers that one city changes size? The "metropolis" icon hits when the city becomes a 6. I want to get it to 30 or something.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry for my English, too.

Timoleon said:

Hello. New here. First, I'd like to thank TheNamelessOne for all his effort and amazing work, especially for custom resources. I have a few questions though:

A) Is it possible somehow to show all hidden flags of the game? Like "Free maintenance under x civic", "+% on Food/Prod/Trade" etc?

I want to, say, create a new Wonder/City improv, or alter the current ones. e.g. The Colossus should be able to be build only in coastal cities, much like the Harbor, or add a new one, for example "The Internet", that acts as a library in every city.

B) Can I change the numbers that one city changes size? The "metropolis" icon hits when the city becomes a 6. I want to get it to 30 or something.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry for my English, too.

Click to expand...

I second this request; it had slipped my mind somehow, but it always bothered me how cities turn so quickly into metropolises.

As for the first suggestion, that'd be the holy grail -- being able to make new wonders or improvements, or even just modify existing ones. Even TNO's powers aren't limitless though, and I suspect it's impossible, or it would have been done already.

Greizer85 said:

As for the first suggestion, that'd be the holy grail -- being able to make new wonders or improvements, or even just modify existing ones. Even TNO's powers aren't limitless though, and I suspect it's impossible, or it would have been done already.

Click to expand...

Think how refreshing and challenging would it be to pay maintenance for certain units in coins (Ships or Siege machines or Armors) rather than with Production. Talking about different economy/management of the game. Unfortunatelly, money in later game means nothing, it is just a number getting higher and higher.

Civ 3 is really what came to my mind. Overall, I think Civ 2 has better feeling of a "board" game, but the third had by faaar the best scenario builder. It could change and modify nearly everything in the game. The degree of customization is always what keeps me interested, but that's just mine subjective point of view.



Let's hope we get a positive response from TheNamelessOne.

Ui interesting!

I modded Civ3 too! Got crazy. Own the German Version of Civ 3 Basic.
And the english Version of Addons. If you take the whole Civ 3 Folder on another Drive,
the whole Games Paths are quite done and Error... i had nothing but Problems install that,
and just turned to Civ2 again. You CAN, indeed, do anything in the Scenario Design!
Endless Units, Improvements, Wonders, the Gfx are much better.

But all these Sub-Folders are just disgusting complicated. You have to link all that Stuff right
within .txt Links, and just 1 Link broken, and that whole Game crashes.
With German Basic Version, Sub-Folders Addons in English, then endless .txt Link Worx,
that was the most amazing Overkill in my whole Life!

You have the Main Folder with ten thousand Sub-Folders, then the Addon Folders with even the
same ten thousand Sub-Folders, and you have to re-link in the Background anything to not
crash that Game until you got totally sick and crazy, and THEN you can modify anything in the
Editor itself, endlessly... and THEN, you have just a 1 Map Game, no Events.txt and a Unit
Movement Overkill in huge Games... no, Civ3 was a pity Modder Ruin!

In Civ2 i can handle that easily, and i can create my own Units... aaaaaarx! See, even these
damned Civ3 Units! You have many different Frame-Rate-Datas, Sound-Datas,
within the Unit Folder itself, a Unit.txt to link all that Stuff, then to link in the Unit-Link.txt
blah blah blah. Just to cry and run versus a thick Wall!

That was the most complicated Overkill i ever saw, an amazing Editor, but no Multi-Map Option,
no Events.txt, no Easy going, just NO EASY GOING EVER!, and no own custom Units possible.

I like the Idea, to get easy Results, if you have an Idea, and you can just do it easily.
Thats Civ2 for me. That i can have an Idea and "just do it".





@Timoleon

Just paint your own Units out of existing ones, and create a two Map Game with a huge Events.txt!
Thats a Vision of Dimensions, no other Civ Game ever had! Sadly.



@TNO

O, to post Requests in here?

The Railroad Multiplier is already done! YES!

My Requests:


- Defense Bonus Multipliers in Cosmics2 kill the Game.
If you have a usual Trooper fighting, then Veteran Bonus, Terrain Bonus, Fortified Bonus,
Walls Bonus, and all that Stuff about 150/Value 3 Percent, or even 200/Value 4 Percent,
youll get an unbeatable Overkill, the AI will kill itself or dont even attack and just leave.
I would reduce these Multipliers from 0/100, to 1/110 til 11/200, easy going Multipliers.

- and/or Events Orders.
My Events.txt checks only 1 Order of the same Family, i wished it would check just all Orders,
no matter. And that these and and/or or Orders )) would just work.

So that i could say: IF Town X1 / or Town X2 til 1000 killed, THEN
So that i could spare some Heap... or, after Heap is endless, spare some Work.

- More possible Coordinates in Events.txt than, 10 or 12 i think.
And a better Randomizing of Placement by Coordinates in Events.txt.
So that the first Place of Coordinates wont get just a Pack of Units,
and the following Coordinates less or none. Thats NOT a Randomize
like i think it has to be!

- O yes and since that Events.txt could be endless:
Some Orders just ended, if i remember right. The Turnintervals or Randomturns,
didnt work endlessly, just stopped doing their Job, if they were too many,
same with... em, that Delay Order, if i delay too much, it stops working too!
AND: "Just" about 31 Flags? If we could do a 32.000 Squares, 1000 Towns Hordes
of Units Game now, 4 Maps or anything, endless Heap but "just" 31 Flags?

- More Veterans, just an Upgrade System, of Veterans, or upgrade Units,
or just like in Civ3, to upgrade by Money, manually - if possible.

- Troopers for Resources like in Civ3, Resources for Tecs - if possible.

- An Events.txt Order like Defender only / Humanplayer only or AI only
So that that Special Thing would just happen, IF it would be the Humanplayer or the AI!

- A Yes or No Option to ask in Events.txt.

- That the Events.txt could load a Batch File automatically.
What if the Events.txt could implement, just that Order:

IF
Citytaken
City=X
THEN
check Batch in Folder
-then the Batch Line to replace Units.bmp or Terrain.bmp-
"just" an in-Events.txt
DOS Language for Batches! - if possible.

- Land Troopers can carry, Sea Troopers can trade or be a Spy or whatever.

- Wonders and Units get a Maintenance, like Timoleon told.

- And like i told above: An Easy Going ToTPP Launcher, just opens, and any .exe,
and just storages anything easily and in the same Way, with one huge new Rules.txt
with Enable/Disable/Multiplier Functions.



- It would be funny if it would be possible to "just circumvent" the Units Limit Problem,
by that Suggestion from anywhere above:

That any of the 7 Nations, would "just" link to its own 80 Units and 80 Units Values...
That would "just" mean: 7 x 80!
The Game AI would handle still "just" these 80 in Line, officially, but in-officially it would
treat other Gfx, Sfx and Values... that would just be amazingly funny to being able to realize!

TheNamelessOne said:

That's pretty creative, I wasn't aware of such (ab)use. How would you suggest I handle it? I can show the message but not set movement points to the max allowed? I agree the message might not make too much sense for players, but for designers it's pretty easy to exceed the limit with the new multipliers.

Click to expand...

Keep the message, it's fine. Ordinarily, players won't see it.

TheNamelessOne said:

BTW, the patch changes all signed operations related to movement to unsigned ones, so the limit is now 255/multiplier.

Click to expand...

It's also the default and breaks fractional movement. I dunno, it's a relatively rare problem. I can write instructions for some of the converted scenarios, as I've done in the case of Imperium Romanum. What about another parameter?

MovementMultipliers
0 = Default, max movement = signed byte, behaviour as vanilla game, RailroadMultiplier and RiverMultiplier, if present, are ignored.
1 = Enables RailroadMultiplier and RiverMultiplier, max movement = unsigned byte.

RailroadMultiplier
RiverMultiplier
0 = Same as underlying terrain, ie, no effect. (Solves Techumseh's problem.)

EZRhino said:

It would be neat if we were able to include config files for the patch that were unique to each scenario. This would save players from having to look up install directions and manually configure the patch for each scenario they play that uses this patch's features.

Click to expand...

I agree. That's been on my private request list since early days. I never submitted it because I thought it would be a hassle, with the way patches are loaded when the game is launched.

To just agree to that config file Idea, and to just ignore my Suggestion of an Easy Going,
seems a bit sad to me. Why let it be such complicated? That no civ2.exe works, that i have
to install a brandnew Test of Time from CD on my c: Drive, patch it to 1.1 and then perhaps
that ToTPP is even initialized... that might understand a Catfish in his Cave!

But no simple User quite EVER! That you as a User will have someday, to check 100 Check Boxes,
and to even READ that Text Stuff for every single Check Box! Plus to implement manually
into Game.txt and Rules.txt working Files! Thats much too complicated!
While Fixes are just useful ever, and Patches could be handled in a Fullsize Rules.txt...
no config file necessary then! Why not create just a whole new, complete, brandnew ToT?

Why let that be complicated? Why just one working .exe, 100 Check Boxes with pity Text
Information within, and now another config file? Why not every .exe working, no Check Boxes,
just opens, just with any .exe, Fixes just implemented, and all other Values enable/disable
by Rules.txt... thats just a most simple Way, and circumvents that whole complicated Stuff,
and circumvents a config file... the Rules.txt IS that config file in my Opinion already!

Dont stuck with that too much complicated Ideas! Thats not a good Way, in any Direction!



Let me simply suggest the following Thing:

Lets create a Test of Time Evolution Game!

Lets take that ToTPP, new Skins for free Choose, new Gfx, and make a whole new
Test of Time. Just a whole new Game, with that ToTPP as Crown Jewels.
Let thet stay complicated, and that will make no Sense! Make it an easy Going,
and it might be a Renaissance. Thats my personal Opinion.



YES, that is Posting 313, so i am right!

But it *is* more simple to have a dedicated config file for each scenario. Because then the user never has to worry about the various settings, assuming that the scenario designer did a good job setting them already. If otoh there were just 'one big Rules.txt', then it would have to be adjusted each time you played a different scenario. Much more of a hassle (unless I've misunderstood something; no offense la raven, but your posts can be a bit hard to read (I'm assuming English is not your first language?)).

You already can have different config files, ofc, in the form of a different Rules.txt in each scenario folder. But only for the features that are added into @COSMIC2 etc. If *all* the ToTPP stuff could be localized to a scenario folder, you'd just have to load the scenario (from within the regular ToT), and it'd all work without any extra clicks or hitches. (Ofc there would also remain the option of modifying the whole base game, as is the case atm.) I'm not sure how much of a hassle this is, lacking almost all the necessary technical knowledge; it's not a foremost priority atm (imo), but definitely something to keep in mind, especially regarding the architecture of the project (i.e., not making it harder to do this as TNO goes along adding fixes and adjustments).

This all said, imo, given the game's age, it's likely that anyone who downloads this project is able and willing to read and click through a few (or even many) simple text-boxes. When the project is nearing completion (in the far, far, faraway future! ), it's reasonable to make a few adjustments for the more casual users, but for now 'cosmetic' needs should take a back-seat to actual fixes, imo.

If anyone's wondered why I suddenly vanished, it's partly because I finally acquired a new computer good enough to let me finally feed my Sims 2 addiction , and partly because the sudden flood of more people requesting new features overwhelmed me.

Anyways, at the moment, my mind is blank when trying to come up with new ideas for new requests or for coming up with any bugs I've encountered, so no news from me here.

And Catfish, ever think about changing your Username again? That word has become synonymous with deceptive practices in the real world arena of romance and dating as of late...

Uffz. I should not explain that whole again! Yes, i am a German.
But thats not the Reason, you did not understand, @Greizer.
Many Things i did not understand, what you, or Catfish, talked, cause its just a High End Debate.
That are Imaginations of different Users, or technical Blah Blah, so the Problem is not my
"bad Language", cause its ok, the Problem is, that we are talking with different Brains, Opinions,
Imaginations, a High End Debate, hard to follow, read, understand, in the first Place!
It is difficult to understand each other anyway, harder in Internet, and most hard, in a High End
technical Debate, thats the whole Thing about! So i might just have to, explain it again!

The Problem is, that TNO made just one single .exe work, to simplify all of his Storages.
If his ToTPP would allow any of the many existing .exes, plus enable/disable any of his Fixes/Patches,
and that would cause, any of his Fixes/Patches, into .exe > .SAV > Storage, it would cause
a massive Disaster of Incompatibility. So i thought, i will never get that single .exe on my PC!
I just wont install Test of Time on my c: Drive from a CD, patch it to 1.1 and hope to get
ToTPP to work, and so, many other Users of that small Group, wont do, too.
And i just wont check 100 Check Boxes, and read every single Check Box Info Text, to just
implement the most Lines manually in my Game.txt or Rules.txt or whatever, i JUST WONT DO THAT!

That all is a KO Thing to me. That makes no Sense to me, to create a fantastic Evolution,
just to make it such complicated, that only 10 Percent of all Users will reach to get that to work!

TNO is proud and made just MAGIC! YES! And i am thankful, happy, and aweful!
But why to handle that in a such High End Solution, so it does not even work easily?

I am a German, yes, and i dont think, if you work for either a Dozen or Millions, you should that
EVER provide... complicated! It has to be user friendly. So i think, that Solution with just
one working .exe, 100 Check Boxes and to read and to place manually Stuff, PLUS a config file,
is just a Thing for a dozen PC or ToT PROs, but nothing for the most simple Users!

The most Users want to get an easy Download, an easy Unpack, an easy Click Click and thats it!
Every other Usage, like reading two Sentences README, is too much for the most Guys out there!
They wont even READ one simple Sentence, plus, they arent PROs in any Case.
If you have to re-install Test of Time from CD to get an original OS Install Entry on your SSD c: Drive,
to get that 1.1 Patcher to work, to get that ToTPP to work, to have to check 100 Boxes, or say,
a 1000 Boxes in the far far faraway Future, to read every single Manual, and to put that Lines
manually into a Game.txt or Rules.txt, it is just an Overkill, the most Users wont understand ever.
Thats my Opinion! If you want to do something great, you have to do it user friendly.
I prefer not even a README, just a simple Click Click.

I would like, that my .exe would just work. And all these Fixes... why to enable a 64 bit Fix?
Why to enable a CPU Fix? That Stuff is necessary anyway! Test of Time should simply run anyway,
on a 64 bit OS System, and should just shut up anyway not to waste CPU Power senselessly!
Thats NOT a Matter of a Check Box anymore! Steal forbidden Tec. Necessary. Civilopedia
Movement Rate. Necessary. I wont check any Notation now. The Fixes are just necessary
and should just work, in my Opinion. City & Unit Limits, Events Heap, Features/Modifications/
Cosmics, that all could be written right into the Rules.txt. Simply.

So all of these Fixes are necessary for a better Gaming anyway, or just necessary to not crash
the Game... and Features/Modifications/Cosmics > Rules.txt > End of that Story.

If all .exe would be allowed to work, you´d need a user friendly Storage of all of the Fixes and
Features Stuff, so that at least all of these .exes would get the same Storage into .SAV Games.

YES! And since the ToTPP manages to do quite everything, like 64 bit, CPU, Hostility,
Limitless, we just would need one just working .exe, and why to take that from CD on c: Drive
to patch it to 1.1, instead of the official No-CD Crack 1.1 civ2.exe ready for Download anyway?
Or just my own civ2.exe, the No-CD Crack limitless Resources, or even better:

Why not to give both by TNO: The No-CD Crack civ2.exe of his Choice, ready for 32 and 64 bit
Systems, plus his ToTPP, plus his Fullsize Rules.txt? Is that civ2.exe forbidden to provide?
NO! It is a 1999 Game, and it should be free already, or? So, just, o Wizard TNO, give me
in a whole Bunch just 3 Things: Your No-CD Crack civ2.exe for an easy copy and paste,
your ToTPP for an easy Click Click Usage, and your Fullsize Rules.txt easy to modify, END!

And every Scenario would have to implement its own Rules.txt. Every Test of Time Game,
Scenario, whatever, would just implement its own Fullsize Rules.txt with Features/Mods/Cosmics,
as a config file already, cause the other Stuff, just needs no manual Implementation while
just necessary! TNO just poses, as i told non-aggressively. He is proud and wants to list his
Work Check by Check, but that is not necessary! Just implement the Fixes, and just
implement all the other Stuff right into a Fullsize Rules.txt, Point.

So > every .exe would just run. ToTPP would just work by a simple Click Click.
No Check Boxes anymore. Ever the same Storage within every single .SAV.
Fixes just implemented cause just necessary. Modifications easy to handle just written
already into the new Fullsize Rules.txt with all new Parameters.

This all said, imo, given the game's age, it's likely that anyone who downloads this project is able and willing to read and click through a few (or even many) simple text-boxes.

Click to expand...

Well, at least i, wont.
Why should i do complicated Stuff, to create a hard work Scenario?
That would mean: Complicated plus hard work Scenario...
if you want to gain an old Games Renaissance, why not just create an easy Going
instead of a High End Barrier for an... old Game? See, especially an old Game
dont needs... a High End Barrier Renaissance, but an easy Going!

It is my one true Opinion: No Matter, just no Matter, for how many you create Art.
Or whatever. No Matter, how old, how many! It just should run.
But do what you want! I told my little Anything already, no further Blah Blah necessary,
from my Side. I can do my little Scenarios anyway.



Well, thats a Debate, should be done, how to let ToTPP work or not:

One single working .exe, 1000 Check Boxes to manually read or enable/disable, to store
them differently into that one single working .exe, plus a Config about the Check Boxes
within every Game/Scenario. -And you forgot, to read every single Manual, and to write
manually into the also existing Rules.txt plus config file!- Or

All .exes working, no Check Boxes at all. Fixes just implemented. And all the other
Modifier Stuff right into a Fullsize Rules.txt, to fix just the whole new Game.txt and Fullsize
Rules.txt for a simple to handle Modification Thing, cause all of the Lines are written already.

I think, that has to be decided, before continuing an awesome Work!
So that it just WILL WORK! But thats not my Problem... as i told. Have nice Days!

@la raven: If I understood correctly, we actually agree, for the most part. We mostly disagree on the time-table. Imo, user friendliness can wait until later in the project. You think it should be done RIGHT NOW. It remains to be seen how TheNamelessOne sees the issue.

Then there is the issue of making some of the fixes core parts of ToTPP, disabling their check-boxes to avoid clutter (99 % of people would check the check-box anyway, so why even have it?). I do support this, in principle; but it should be done *very* carefully, to avoid compatibility issues. If some mandatory (no checkbox available) fix causes the game to crash on someone's computer, they no longer have the option of getting it to work by disabling that particular fix. This also leads to dozens of 'can you HELP me! my game CRASHED!' posts in this thread (assuming the project gets some publicity, leading to more downloads and players). These will then get buried in the deluge of fix suggestions that clogs the thread so far... And vice versa. We're kind of being beta-testers here, so maybe it's good that the project stays very modular and low-profile for now, and mostly people who (at least sort of ) know what they're doing download it. Once it's ready, polished and shiny, months or years down the road, we shall parade it out in all its glory (I'll need at least 6 months for my world map, looks like it... What better way to illustrate the various fixes and new features than a full-length 'demonstration' game on it, complete with pictures and flavor-text? ).

Anyway, it's pointless to argue about these things, as TNO is the sole arbiter here, being that this is his project and he's the only one who can actually implement any of the fixes us unwashed masses so hungrily clamor for.

Wow, a Poet...

My Suggestion, that TNO delivers one simple Package No-CD Crack civ2.exe, ToTPP click click
Version plus Fullsize Rules.txt stands. No further Discussion necessary. That would mean,
there IS actually just 1 .exe used, for 32 and 64 bit, the No-CD 1.1, limitless, ever same Storage,
the TNOs Choice and well, delivered right within the whole Package, no c: Install from CD necessary,
ToTPP is just a click click Thing without Check Boxes > which could be "still there", as an
"enhanced Options" > like in all Software Download Sections these mad Guys trying to sell
their Maggot Stuff like Toolbars if not disabled their sad Check Boxes, we could use that
"Gimmick of Mad and Sadness", for a better Reason > to "just use the ToTPP click click" or
open it custom by Option which would lead to a fast Problem Fix but also to Incompatibility.
And that Fullsize Rules.txt includes already all the Lines Blah Blah end.

Yes, we agree in the most Parts, but i think, my Suggestion is the Top of that Art.
The Top easy Going right now.
Even TNO ran into that Problem and tried to fix it NOW! By his one working .exe, and how
many ran into that Problem that ToTPP wasnt working anymore for them?
Even TNO tried to fix that Incomp Problem right NOW! Cause he was smart enough to
even detect it... and i am smart enough to think: I dont want to get ANY Bugs caused by
different running Systems, i want a GENERAL WAY to get that to run for all, and to prevent
all Problems from all... Users out there, and i want it just NOW!

I dont think, you´ll get thousands of Players, if you Game Over it in the first Place/Time!

And why not doing the most simple Way right now, to get even more Followers?
Do you really think, there are thousands of them?
I would highly suggest to solve that Problem NOW, before some Jerks download something,
they will just smash right into the Garbage annoyed and angry!
To solve that Problem NOW, so we´ll get the most proper and easy Way to go on!
TNO already saw that occurring, that he already ran into that Problem, and my Suggestion
is the best available i think, to easily do NOW! The Check Boxes, as i told, could still be a
"Custom Option", but necessary Fixes which 99 % of all Players would just check, YES,
should just be implemented by the click click Version of ToTPP!

Say, ToTPP EasyRun Version and Custom Options Version.

I am not hungry... its a most awesome magic Work, but i cannot use it.
As i told. I wont install it that complicated Way, and i wont read all these Check Boxes.
I am able, thankful to that little old Game, to create my Ideas, thats enough for me.

Unless that ToTPP will not work easily, it wont ever work for me!





It would be good, to have a Carrier Units Limit... dont know if suggested already...
that a Transport Ship has a Units Limit written into the Unit Values, and right at the
same Place, a Carrier could get a Units Carry Maximum.

Something came to my mind, when I thought about my event.txt file for the last scenario I had created: If there's a mistake, it should show the wrong line or something. I had to read through it several times or get close to it by copy & paste.

The map is coming along nicely. Here is the current plan for the resources, subject to many changes in the months to come (I haven't actually placed any resources yet; I don't have the graphics in place, and it's better to finalize the actual terrain beforehand, anyways):

Due to the constraints of the resource system, as of now some 'resources' are terrain types, and vice versa. Most of my problems would go away if any resource could be placed on any type of terrain, but I suppose that's on the 'über-core h4ck!!1' level, even with your skills, TNO?

Aside from that pipe-dream, I'm posting mostly to get feedback on the resource balance/coverage. Have I forgotten anything obvious or essential? I'm torn between including Salmon or Uranium. I do want a food resource for River tiles, but the graphic for that may be hard to create so that it'll fit in with all kinds of underlying/surrounding terrains. Then there's things like Copper or Tin or Stone *sigh*, decisions, decisions... Any input is welcome; I'd especially want to know if I've made a mistake in the 'logistics' somewhere and could actually fit in more terrains/resources via some non-obvious trickery. Even with the increased amount, there are just so *few* slots and so *many* different terrains on a world map... Maybe I should have tackled Europe first and then moved on to more painful things (no, that's not a hint or anything. I won't start making a map of Europe while my world map is still unfinished. What do you take me for, some kind of mad genius? ).

EDIT: If you're wondering, the 'City Site' terrain is for the AI to settle on (they won't settle other terrains). This way the AI can finally be 'guided' into settling sensibly. The locations of the 'city sites' reflect major real world cities, ofc; and the resources around them will be abundant and optimally placed. Not *too* optimally, though -- you may still want to nudge a tile to the east or west, etc, as a human, depending on your city layout and other factors. Anyway, I chose the old Grassland terrain for this because it avoids wasting resource slots (since it can't have them anyway, only the lone 'shield' pseudo-resource). I'm thinking the terrain should look like a cross between Grassland and Plains maybe; of course this creates a minor problem in arctic areas, but I'd rather have it that way than have tundra in the tropics.

... Although technically I could make my own thread, there won't be that many posts and I'll also post suggestions etc., so I presume it's ok if I talk about my map in this thread? It can't be played without ToTPP, anyway, so I suppose in that sense it is 'a part' of the project. If you'd prefer that I make a dedicated thread, I can do that too ofc.