Tilting at the Deity windmill

It's not my style TBH. I read elsewhere that dromons are considered an excellent UU. Why is that?
It's the first genuine 'warship' of the game, and has a very high power-to-cost ratio compared to the Galley, which it replaces (if you like, it's kind of the marine equivalent of the MW). According to my C3C cheat-sheet for the Dromon:

Cost=30s
A/D/M=2/1/3 (but actually M=4 in-game, since Byzzies are SEA)
transport capacity 2
and if all that wasn't enough, it can bombard both land and sea tiles at B/R/F=2/1/2 (might even have lethal sea-bombard, can't remember for sure -- the attack- and bombard-animations are the same)

It's also very 'durable', since it's buildable from Maps (for which the Byzzies only need Pots and Writing as prereqs) to Astro (which they can obtain when they choose). So you can churn out a lot of them (especially if you also got Philo and built MoM for a single-Wonder GA) before you have to start building Caravels instead, and those you build will continue to be useful as sea-raiders and land-bombers right up until the appearance of Ironclads/Transports.

All in all, it's one of the most cost-effective and longest-lived (naval) units in the game.

And if you copy/paste 'theodoras excellent always war sid adventure' into the search box*, you'll find a very funny story, in which Dromons were used systematically to destroy all the AICivs' coastal infrastructure -- may well have a lot to do with the general regard for the Dromon amongst CFCers...

*(Sorry I couldn't locate the actual link. Either CFC or Safari has been updated in the last couple of weeks or so -- and since then, my search results aren't displaying properly/ at all)
 
It's the first genuine 'warship' of the game, and has a very high power-to-cost ratio compared to the Galley, which it replaces (if you like, it's kind of the marine equivalent of the MW). According to my C3C cheat-sheet for the Dromon:

Cost=30s
A/D/M=2/1/3 (but actually M=4 in-game, since Byzzies are SEA)
transport capacity 2
and if all that wasn't enough, it can bombard both land and sea tiles at B/R/F=2/1/2 (might even have lethal sea-bombard, can't remember for sure -- the attack- and bombard-animations are the same)

It's also very 'durable', since it's buildable from Maps (for which the Byzzies only need Pots and Writing as prereqs) to Astro (which they can obtain when they choose). So you can churn out a lot of them (especially if you also got Philo and built MoM for a single-Wonder GA) before you have to start building Caravels instead, and those you build will continue to be useful as sea-raiders and land-bombers right up until the appearance of Ironclads/Transports.

All in all, it's one of the most cost-effective and longest-lived (naval) units in the game.

And if you copy/paste 'theodoras excellent always war sid adventure' into the search box*, you'll find a very funny story, in which Dromons were used systematically to destroy all the AICivs' coastal infrastructure -- may well have a lot to do with the general regard for the Dromon amongst CFCers...

*(Sorry I couldn't locate the actual link. Either CFC or Safari has been updated in the last couple of weeks or so -- and since then, my search results aren't displaying properly/ at all)

Thanks tjs282. I doubt I will ever experience the marvel of the Dromon myself but that does look like an impressive list of attributes.

Just as an aside, one of my curraghs sunk a dromon the other day. That is to say, the dromon failed to sink my doughty curragh and paid with its 'life'. I wonder whether there is a record for a weak unit defeating a strong one. In one recent game I decided to shed all my warriors in the industrial age by sending them on suicide missions against whoever I was at war with. One of them came within an ace of fending off a TOW infantry attack!
 
(might even have lethal sea-bombard, can't remember for sure -- the attack- and bombard-animations are the same)

It's also very 'durable', since it's buildable from Maps (for which the Byzzies only need Pots and Writing as prereqs) to Astro (which they can obtain when they choose). So you can churn out a lot of them (especially if you also got Philo and built MoM for a single-Wonder GA) before you have to start building Caravels instead, and those you build will continue to be useful as sea-raiders and land-bombers right up until the appearance of Ironclads/Transports.

They do have lethal sea bombard. I consider them superior to ironclads. Much more cost-effective, don't require researching a dead-end tech, etc. I usually keep them around until transports arrive.

Oh, and the sid all war adventure is hilarious! :lol: And the forum search doesn't work for me either, using Firefox.
 
I am now playing a cheat game that will not count, but I got off to such a great start I don't want to lose the opportunity of playing it correctly so I am permitting myself one or more reloads. I have ivory and got a GSL on being the first to discover writing. So, in my first effort I decided to research literature and get the Gt Library in one turn while building the Statue of Zeus the hard way. However, Spain got to the SofZ first and a strangely backward but powerful Japan launched a highly inconvenient war when I refused to hand over Mathematics. I need to shed my aversion to yielding techs to threats since the consequences of war are much worse.
 
Is there any sort of buffer state between you and Japan? That might help, unless Japan signs them up against you, too.:rolleyes: Nice start and good luck!
 
Is there any sort of buffer state between you and Japan? That might help, unless Japan signs them up against you, too.:rolleyes: Nice start and good luck!

No, my continent (I am playing standard-size continental map) contains just me, Spain and Japan and although it's a large continent we are all budged up together in the top left hand corner. I am in the corner itself with Spain to the south and Japan to the east, neither of them far away. So there are five civs on the other continent. This should be favourable if I can overcome one of my neighbours. I am thinking I must use the GSL to build the statue but it seems a waste. If I can beat Spain to the statue (we both have Ivory) and use the GSL for something else (maybe the Temple of Artemis) I should be in a great position.
 
I 'thought of' something. But I know I didn't think of it first :( Discover literature, give or trade it to/with a relatively weak neighbour (like England, which is usually pretty crappy in the early stages) let them build the Great Library and then go and take it.

I think this may be 'Deity level' thinking. Sort of farming the AI like some say you should farm the barbs.
 
I 'thought of' something. But I know I didn't think of it first :( Discover literature, give or trade it to/with a relatively weak neighbour (like England, which is usually pretty crappy in the early stages) let them build the Great Library and then go and take it.

I think this may be 'Deity level' thinking. Sort of farming the AI like some say you should farm the barbs.

Pretty cool idea. Similar to gifting the Great Library in a throw-away town once education is about to come in and then taking it back once people have Military Tradition (and preferably steam power). Only problem with your method is being sure you'll be able to take it easily when you need to. It's a gamble, but it'd certainly be great. You wouldn't have to waste vital early-game turns building it.
 
The same idea is also applied when trying for a fast domination victory: give Polytheism to all nearby neighbors and hope that one of them will build the Artemis Temple for you in time...
(And similarly, if you want the Pyramids early. But controlling on which continent that one gets built, is much harder to do, because everyone will know that tech soon, so in a cascade it can go anywhere...)
 
Pretty cool idea. Similar to gifting the Great Library in a throw-away town once education is about to come in and then taking it back once people have Military Tradition (and preferably steam power). Only problem with your method is being sure you'll be able to take it easily when you need to. It's a gamble, but it'd certainly be great. You wouldn't have to waste vital early-game turns building it.
I had a continental map with, as far as I could tell, just me and England on my continent. England demanded literature so I gave it away and then got a pop-up saying the GL was being built in Coventry, not a million miles from the frontier (one city behind the nearest one) so it's probably doable. 19 turns for the AI (I investigated the city) probably twice that for me in my capital.
 
This is quite promising, despite finding:

1 no horses within 5 cities' distance
2 no saltpetre without having to fight for it, and now
3 no freaking coal either!!

WTF! :(

But. I am second power behind France having been given a huge area to expand into without fighting. I'm allied with a gracious France against Byzantium. India is practically finished. Rome and England are away on the far side of France and thus useful potential future allies against them and no threat against me.

I have to fight my way to the coal, make peace, and start the industrial revolution. No wonders built but I'm not too badly off in the tech race.

ETA - got the coal. Byzantium is on its knees so I'd better cash in while I can. Then peace.
 
I had a continental map with, as far as I could tell, just me and England on my continent. England demanded literature so I gave it away and then got a pop-up saying the GL was being built in Coventry, not a million miles from the frontier (one city behind the nearest one) so it's probably doable. 19 turns for the AI (I investigated the city) probably twice that for me in my capital.

That should work wonders then.You'll get to focus on getting rid of England without them creating a dog pile (assuming the other continent isn't reachable before navigation). It also means you get your own continent. Always a nice feeling.
 
It's when you get every other (or nearly every other) available Civ to join you in attacking someone.
 
Or when they do that to you. :aargh:
 
Ah, thanks both. I must have been doing something right in this game because no one has ganged up on me yet. England, a weakling, just declared war, which will allow me to hoover up a couple of her cities that are in 'my' part of the globe. France may be running away. 38% pop to my 30% plus a tech lead. The only of light is that her empire is like a string of spaghetti stretching right across the map and thus not easily defensible if faced with an alliance. I, OTOH, have a sounder set up with a short front once I swallow some cities behind my lines. I'm gonna need replaceable parts though because without infantry I can't hold anything in a war with France. I'm bluffing with muskets right now.
 
Jacked in the last game because the French were disappearing too fast over the horizon. Now, same set up (small pangea, sticking with the Iroquois) I have managed the slingshot in 1375BC and gone into anarchy (6 turns predicted which is a bit much IMO given that I only have 8 cities). No horses but I have iron and maybe able to build the Statue of Zeus and England has horses within easy reach.
 
That went south fast. Lost three key cities to culture flips and didn't have that many to begin with. Back to the drawing board. I'm thinking of playing tiny map again.
 
Pangea might not be the best choice for a first run at deity. Civs know each other quicker, which ramps up the tech pace, and there's no ocean to protect you from some of the civs until Navigation (or seafaring + Great Lighthouse). I'd probably go small continents if I was you. Tiny helps on lower difficulties, but it only means more chance for a path to you pre-navigation, which is bad news if there's an early war.
 
Pangea might not be the best choice for a first run at deity. Civs know each other quicker, which ramps up the tech pace, and there's no ocean to protect you from some of the civs until Navigation (or seafaring + Great Lighthouse). I'd probably go small continents if I was you. Tiny helps on lower difficulties, but it only means more chance for a path to you pre-navigation, which is bad news if there's an early war.

This is the trend of the advice I have received here. I have listed before the advantages of tiny maps though and I'm not persuaded they are overcome by the disadvantages. They include (from memory):

1 better chance of a GSL
2 better chance of building a wonder (more to go round per civ)
3 greater likelihood that a victorious war will confer a decisive edge

I think there were one or two others. It now occurs to me that tiny continental might be fun. That puts you one on one with a hand picked weakling (India before elephants, England especially, are candidates). You can also now include expansionist Civs and skimp on exploration beyond your immediate vicinity since they will come and find you. So America with its useless UU comes back into play as a possible opponent. Probably best to choose expansionist, non-seafaring Civs with crap UUs. Inca maybe. I think I'll try it.
 
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