The Deity Challenge Lineup - Game # 4 - Sweden

Everyone who had trouble with Shaka expanded right into him I kept to the coast, didn't steal a worker from him. I did everything possible to get on his good side. I traded whales and furs with him and only bribed him once to attack. All was good until ideologies of course and then my proposal for Order ideology ended up in denouncement and finally an attack but too late.

Early production was pathetic but once you got the fish tiles worked and get god of the sea the production picked up quite a bit. My 1st expo had really nice production once I was able to work all the tiles.

My big limit was science. It was pretty bad for a while and the -33% GS didn't help. It finally picked up around turn 230 with Free Thought, plastics and bpt from scholasticism once the allies start piling up. In fact my end bpt from scholasticism was 262bpt out of 1060.

I settled one tile SW of start after one turn, figuring it was better being behind the river in case of hostile neighbor - hostile is right! Sadly, this sort of messed up a satellite further S, as the ice prevents a lighthouse??? I see no horses or iron, that will crimp gold.

I placed my second city on the river NE of Kilimanjaro to get it within 2 tiles without sacrificing the river tile for my third, coastal, city. All that nice open space between me and Shaka - no thanks! As it was, he coveted my land from the first I met him (13 tiles away) and once I started stealing workers from Bucharest (3 so far), he was not a nice guy, wanting lux +4 gpt to trade. Luckily my upgraded Spear saw his forward units on turn 67, so I was able to bribe a DOW vs Theo, and now he is even friendly - even trades.

Going Tradition then at least to Consulates, I plan to finish Patronage. BO was Scout, Scout, Shrine, WBoat x3, Library, just now starting on Archers. Bought one Archer when Shaka approached, he would have rolled me.

It is interesting - any unit I walk by Kilimanjaro gets Altitude Training. Is this normal? I have earned that promo on other maps, but it seemed random.

i learned from my mistake settling into the Zulu so i moved my capital down a bit and settled on the furs to get 5 sea ressources (should have settled one tile south of it though in hindsight) and did go straight optics (found archey in ruin)

Rush-bought a Lighthouse and on 7 pop produced a settler which i settled on the coast to the north to get the food cargos going.

I already needed to bribe shaka into war Turn 50 when he stood at my border and i redirected him to Bismarck which he killed around T100.
So i needed a new enemy for the Zulu and it was Persia which he was basically at war the whole rest game

I got some early DoFs from Austria, Byzantium and Persia which i used for some Research agreements after getting Education around T115. Gold was flowing nicely all game long so i could rush buy all the science building in my 2nd city and some in my capital.

Random screenshot T151


I was able to propose "Scholars in Residence" and got it through T158 while Worlds Fair passed as usually


This helped a lot catching up because i was still 7-10% behind in tech in that stage and with only 2 cities the science output is not that big.
Could definitely not win Worlds Fair so i only got the 350 hammers for the policy and got Scientific Theory 161.

With the help of the research agreement and oxford i was able to reach Radio T178 being the first to adopt an ideology and i chose order (because i thought i need the 25% science boost)
Also i could grab PT T181 because nobody did go Ratio.



Reached Plastics 204 while still maintaining friends with Theodora and Maria (plus research agreements)



Unfortunately Theodora was the only one choosing order like me so after that i had a hard time finding friends.
After getting plastics i decided the best and only way to end the game would be diplomatic so i used my saved up 4 GS and my writer to fninsh ratio to get into information era and start the World leader trigger. (Luckily just was enough to get the top line of techs)

After that i did a 2nd gamble and proposed World Ideology Order to get these 2 more votes in exchange for the hate of the world besides Theodora.
I was a bit scared because now the Zulu and Persia really got angry with me and there was a 10 Turn peace passage where neither of them had a war to fight with each other. But i was able to bribe Zulu into random wars with France and Pocatello and Persia for 40gpt into war with Maria and Theodora just in case.
Angry Darius



He was also mad because i was able to steal 3 techs from him which also helped a lot.
In the end i build Manhattan Project just in case and always had some cash for the bombs.
When getting a lot more CS Allies i did get Scholastiscm and it gave me about 250 bpt in the end, so definetively worth it.
I just used order to get the factory boost. I did not put anymore policies in that because i did not have any happiness problem nor did i need any t3 tenet.
I opened actually Commerce T220 to get a gold boost.

In the end i even had 3 Votes to much, so i could have lost a CS (Had 15 allies, only Ife did go astray in an early war from the Zulu, luckily Austria did not get any chance of allying and marrying any CS) or did not anger the whole world with my world ideology proposal.

Very nice and torturing game

A picture illustrates it clearly: I have less land now than I did 50 turns ago.



The war has been a complete slog, and I’ve lost units faster than I’ve replaced them. Shaka has citadel-bombed me twice, and he has more Generals lurking around. I did a reasonable job of whittling down Shaka’s army, but they’ve just kept coming. Every time I thought I might be able to push a city, a new zombie horde spawned. Now it’s turn 150 and units too strong for Crossbows could show up at any minute. I’ve missed my window, basically.

On a positive note, Persia DOW’ed Shaka this turn, and Austria is supposedly marching a sneak attack against the western half of the Zulu empire. I have help now. I still won’t be able to take any Zulu cities without better tech, but I don’t think I’m in danger of losing cities. I’m just going to keep on fighting the good fight and wait to see if I get a window to go on the offensive later.

I've managed to maintain reasonable science, mostly thanks to my eight CS allies. I’ve completed Patronage, opened Rationalism, and I’ll pick up Secularism soon. With a research agreement triggering in four turns and a Great Scientist in seven, I’ll get to Scientific Theory at a reasonable time. Then I’ll have to decide how much more science to invest in military techs. All I really need to do is stay alive, since Sweden’s UA is kind of super OP for Diplo victories. But, as they say, the best defense is a good offense, so I’d still like to turn the tables on Shaka.

It’s going to be a struggle, and I don’t know what my plan is, exactly. But this game is still winnable.

T78 1st Impi so I made immediately white peace.
T87 crappy religion but Tithe gives at least few gold. The game has already decided that Persian religion will be dominant one though Nappy build SH & Theo went Piety. Liberty finish -> planted GS on the same turn.
T108 Darius went Renaissance while Bismarck was the tech lead
T110 hard build (sigh) NC
T114 Education
T112 31 turns to steal from Darius, capital doesn't even have a Uni -> 007 goes to Berlin. Uni but 23 turns, screw this -> Vienna next. 13 turns now but just one of those days when capital science output has nothing to do with teching
T121 My spy tells me that Maria on her way to attack someone so I denounce her as a pre-emptive measure but turns out she was going to visit Shaka after all
T124 enhancing my religion without caring too much what to take; this is already screwed
T140 Darius founded WC
T155 Darius went Industrial
T168 I hit industrial by stealing, Persian Order has been up for a while

Basically Darius is running away with ease even though he has been occasionally fighting 3-front war and took Berlin though Shaka has the largest Army and was mostly involved in beating the Germans. He just build a dozen Impis and ran criss-crossing for awhile taking few cities and killing anything that looked him in a funny way. Otherwise nothing much is happening but this is just a stupid game. I could blame the map, Shaka, Darius, the Game or me or any combo of those but in the this is a stupid game. Crappy starting position or not but Shaka just changes the balance too much and whatever the others do it's ultimately Shaka who decides what happens at least up to ~200 turns.

I stopped the session on T170 but didn't take a ss it seems.

Moved settler to river next to the cow, near M.t. Killimanjaro mostly to avoid shaka, as we had a run in in an earlier attempt.

Went Scout, Scout, Granary, Settler, Worker, (Steal), Settler, Settler.

First produced settler to furs at the original spot. Second went to the hill at the Truffles and the final on the hill next to the Silk in Shaka land.

Then Shaka says hi, bribes him with two lux to live, and he's off to Germany. Essentially game felt over from there. NC at turn 120-140 or so. I thought, why not see how long I can stay alive in this game...

So it went on, shaka took parts of Germany, came by again, and was off with some other luxes and took fancy to Theodora. Meanwhile me and Austria made great amounts of gold via sea trading.

Got myself some new shiny crossbows, only to see shaka move by with muskets. Persepolis saw its first factory before I had education.

But ... finally I made enough money to buy a city state (mercantile), which coincided with a great merchant (cultural CS). Suddenly the culture was doubled and it actually looked like I'd finish the Patronage tree.

After Edu I focused on banks and such, and made like 73gpt. Bought CS after CS, along with more and more points in Patronage. Science and Culture rose, happiness ebbed and flowed with the war bribes. Everyone seemed to hate Germany this game even though Shaka took two capitals at least, forward settled multiple times, and took one or two city states (Ife & Manila).

Started to think I had a chance. Persepolis had 23K. Shoshone similar amounts. No one ever tried to take over the CS. Suddenly I owned them all with a vote coming up in 13 turns. Failed by four votes.

Reloaded my game, and had a look at how diplomats work. Had never really used them before, and, by magic I could buy the votes from Germany, Shaka and Persia which had finished Apollo by now.
Won with 42 votes, where 38 were required.

Not a clean win by any means, absolutely nothing to take from it more than it was possible

Sorry, for any ramblings, but I'm pretty happy atm

When last I left off, things didn’t look too promising. My war had gotten me nowhere, and I had spent much of the last 60 turns pumping out units that promptly died. Finally, a ray of hope appeared when Bismarck and Theodora simultaneously DOW’ed Shaka around turn 155. For a moment it looked like a good old-fashioned pile-on, but the situation became considerably worse when Darius, the only one really well-positioned to fight the Zulu, mysteriously took peace a few turns later.

In any case, I resolved to keep on pumping out Crossbows. I decided to spend one of my Generals reclaiming some land, which netted me two strategically-placed citadels. I even got optimistic enough to venture into Shaka’s face and dream about snatching a city. But (of course) a Zulu horde swarmed in out of nowhere, and I was forced to retreat, suffering heavy casualties. During the ensuing Zulu counterpush, my army got reduced to a dangerously small tally of 5 Crossbows and 1 Knight. The enemy was in my lands, and now, at around turn 170-175, I was actually worried about the possibility of defeat.

Some things were still going my way, though. I had four DOFs, and my good buddy Darius’s peace treaty with Shaka was over. Fortunately, Darius seemed to be eager to get back into the fight, and I was able to bribe him into war for about 10 gpt, which represented something like two-thirds of my meager cashflow at the time. Darius was strong enough to potentially devour Shaka’s peripheral cities, and the Zulu forces left my lands to handle the situation. I decided not to push immediately, and contended myself with poking Shaka’s city with my pair of ranged Crossbows while waiting to enact my master plan.

The master plan: after Scientific Theory, I immediately went for Electricity, and I started on Oxford as soon as my Public School was done. I used Oxford to open Radio, timing it perfectly so that I got to unlock an Ideology on the same turn that I naturally earned a policy. Darius was the only one with an Ideology, and he had chosen Order. This enabled me to get three policies in Freedom straight away, and I used them to grab Volunteer Army (circa turn 180).

Foreign Legions are SERIOUSLY buff at that point in the game. With an effective 50 combat strength in enemy lands, they can actually bash down cities all by themselves. The absolute best thing the AI might have are Riflemen, which are puny by comparison. With these six super-units, Shaka didn’t stand a chance. A detour to Dynamite for a pair of Artillery sealed the deal. In the ensuing 20 turns I took three Zulu cities, before finally making peace at turn 200. Shaka offered me a couple of his cities in the peace deal, but I declined. I have enough cities now, and I like having a Shaka-buffer between me and the other AI, in case my relations with the others deteriorate later on.

Here’s my new 5-city empire:



At this point, the game is basically won. There are still some interesting choices yet to be made, and Darius looks like he might be an irritating competitor for city-states, but I don’t intend on warring any more. I’ll post a final recap with some general thoughts once I get around to finishing, but the most interesting parts are probably over. I’ve had a lot of fun with this game, and I’m very glad that I didn’t just do the passive “bribe and pray” strategy. Thanks to DingleBirdy for posting the save, and thanks to anyone who might be actually reading this.

I was looking forward to a coastal Tradition builder's game, but a close by Shaka changes that plan in a big way. An unchecked deity Shaka can be almost unstoppable in the t60 - t120 timeframe. That's just too risky. So Liberty -> Army is the plan.

Not what I want to see on turn 6.



Not only do I want to attack Shaka, but I'll do my best to be a pesky neighbor until I'm ready. This meant for some interesting puzzles. I'd kill this settler without losing anything Unfortunately the spear dies a few turns later.



The Swedish realm at t51, not too much longer now. I'm running a Caravan to Darius. The route is fogbusted with a Scout. Shaka is impressive. Even though I've stolen killed two workers and two settlers he still is builing a formidable Empire.



I like to mix CBs and Chatriot Archers for fast attacks on Deity. This allows for flexible tactics while still letting me sell half the horses. Ulundi falls (and it has the pyramids). Totally unprovoked by me Darius and Bismarck joint DoW'ed Shaka the turn before I captured Ulundi. Talk about some favourable die rolls . I did lose a single CB in the assault - accidentally left the guy on the Ivory-crossfire tile.



I guess I will kill a few more cities before making peace ...

I burned one more Zulu city before Impi showed up. A single Impi runs right through one of my units and takes my entire army two rounds to kill. Ok Shaka, time for peace my friend.



At t100 overview

- I've just finished a late NC
- Ulundi generated a great merchant, so I gave it away to Kyzyl. :shrugs:
- Shaka is down to two cities but has plenty of Impi roaming about. I'm going to build some Pikes to help hold the line in case he declares. Maybe some forts too.

There were a lot of ruins this game. From memory I believe I had two unit upgrades (one scout to archer and warrior to spear), one pop bonus, free archery, and two culture ruins. Then about 50 turns I found another untouched ruin and got another free tech but can't remember which one. Masonry maybe?

As fortunate as I was with the ruins, I was even more fortunate with city states. Cleared a barb camp for Bucharest and Ife, returned Bucharest worker. Worker was recaptured and I returned it again. Allied up with Kryzl with another barb camp worker return, then because I was allied with two cultural cs I won a couple culture quests. I met Manila pretty late, and the only reason I found out they were southeast of my cap is because I saw a barb worker roaming around unguarded. Went down there and killed a camp and returned the worker. That was another free ally.

I took three archers, a chariot, and a spear to Ulundi and was able to take his cap around turn 60. Barbs were invading him while I was and he kept going after them instead of me. Two turns before I took his cap he completed Zeus which was nice of him. I annexed Ulundi pretty fast and decided to build the Oracle with it. It was the only city I had that had any production.

The game was kind of over after taking Shaka's capital. He kinda sat around doing nothing for several turns even though I hadn't made peace. He sent a couple settlers out but I captured them quickly. I made peace with him eventually and let him settle another city. Then I paid Darius to attack him and he finished Shaka off for good. Later on I liberated Shaka for the hell of it.

The rest of the game was pretty easy. Austria declared war on me once, but my allied city states blocked her from ever getting close. I sent a couple cross bows and a knight up to a city she founded SE of Bucharest. I captured that city in a couple turns and sold it to Darius. I settled for white peace with Austria and that was that. Right after researching Bombers Darius declared war on me out of the blue. He was fighting with muskets and I had infantry. It wasn't a fair fight. I captured and razed the city I had given him earlier. I captured the old Shaka city and liberated it. I moved units deeper into his lands until we settled on a 300gpt peace deal.

After that I was on cruise control until the end. I used most my great people to ally up with city states. If I had played the game any longer I would have won with a diplo victory as I was allied with everyone. Thought about going full honor/domination this game, but dom is all I have done so far. Now I kinda regret it because I don't get nearly invested in science games. Oh well. I hope to see someone post a domination victory.

Social Policies
Full Tradition
Patronage down to Scholasticism
Rationalism
Order

Wonders
Oracle
Tried for several others but kept losing out.
PT
Hubble

Part 1:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...8&postcount=12
Part 2:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...1&postcount=15
Part 3:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...8&postcount=27
Part 4:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13367788&postcount=30

Here’s my endgame empire:



And here’s my social policies:



I had one extra policy to spend at engame and decided to put it into Treaty Organization (which I didn’t need). It didn't matter at that point. I enjoyed opening Patronage early, as it let me get deep into the Patronage tree without preventing me from going straight into Rationalism once I hit the Renaissance. The cost of doing this (in addition to contorting my early game science path) was that I didn’t get to finish Tradition. In general, I think that Monarchy being totally OP is the largest reason that Tradition is the best starting policy tree, and I think that finishing Tradition is overrated. Most thoughtfully chosen policy builds that involve Monarchy are competitive with full Tradition – I’m not saying that “Tradition to Monarchy” is necessarily better than full Tradition, but it’s close enough that it enables you to play around with your policies a lot without feeling like you're arbitrarily handicapping yourself. I highly recommend playing some games with the Monarchy-centric approach in mind, as it gives you a lot of freedom to be creative with hybrid openings and use less-popular policy trees, including Honor and Piety.

The most notable feature of this game was my 100-turn war with the Zulu. Fighting the Zulu during Medieval era is tough, as Impi are absolutely terrifying. Judging by others’ posts, a better approach might have been an Ancient/Classical rush. However, that requires a lot of finesse and is fairly risky. If a player like glory7 can lose trying to do that, I’m happy with taking a slower, safer path.

I’ve spent a while thinking about whether DOWing Shaka when I did was a good idea. I could’ve just waited until his prime era passed and I had an actual tech advantage. However, Shaka had the largest army when I DOWed him and had already burned some other civs’ cities to the ground. If I hadn’t DOWed him, it’s possible that he would have just spiraled out of control and I never would’ve gotten a good opportunity. As it was, I kept track of the demographics while the battles raged, and I was successful in steadily shrinking Shaka’s army until it was no longer the largest. That made the eventual conquest much easier once I had my Foreign Legions, and I was also helped a lot by other civs DOWing Shaka, which may not have happened if he still had the largest army. So I think it ultimately was a productive approach.

Sweden feels like a very solid civ to me. Both halves of the UA are excellent, especially if you’re planning on warring. War usually gives you more Great Generals than you really need, and it also isn’t uncommon to capture Great Prophets that you don’t normally have much use for. I’ve long felt that Sweden was the single most mis-rated civ in this site’s “Deity tier list” thread. I hope that this game and the associated thread leads people to appreciate Sweden a bit more.