Being Evil responsibly? Just got pwned by Stephanos as the Sheaim

Cliftor

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
79
That newbie here again, for my second game I wanted to try an evil Civ with the Ashen Veil.

I dunno why, but I for some reason I just assumed the Apocalypse was a "good" thing for evil civs, and for my second game I tried the Sheaim and started doing everything in my power to drive the AC up. I get the Hyboream to appear and indeed they help me out with one of my wars, but then Stephanos appears in my empire and singlehandedly destroys all my cities in a matter of just a few turns.

I was under the impression he'd be friendly. Silly me.

Obviously I'm missing something. Is there more to being an effective evil player than just trying to bring about the apocalypse?
 
You still have to prepare for Armageddon. Even if you are Evil, Blight will affect you. Unless you are at peace with the barbs, you will likely get a visit from one or more of the Horsemen, you will get the Hell Holes at AC 80 with barb/Infernal units on them, you will have half your guys go whacky at AC 90 and when Armageddon strikes, unless you are Basium or Hyborem, it ain't pretty.

Being Evil doesn't really benefit you much from Armageddon events, but, as mentioned, the Sheaim (whether they are Evil or not) get at least two benefits from the AC being high.

Still, you need to get your cities as healthy as possible, give your guys Courage, etc. to prepare for the counter increasing and the impending events.
 
Yes, I meant as Sheaim since that was the civ he mentioned jacking the armageddon counter way up with.
It should be noted that evil is not the same as wanting armageddon--only the Sheaim and the Infernal will like you if you are increasing the armageddon counter a lot, the other evil civs will have minus relations with you for it.

Other evil civs are evil for different reasons, not because they want to end the world. Most of them just want to rule it.
 
Doviello (as charadon) and the Clan of Embers can get to Armageddon being at peace with the barbarians.
 
Yes, I meant as Sheaim since that was the civ he mentioned jacking the armageddon counter way up with.
It should be noted that evil is not the same as wanting armageddon--only the Sheaim and the Infernal will like you if you are increasing the armageddon counter a lot, the other evil civs will have minus relations with you for it.

Other evil civs are evil for different reasons, not because they want to end the world. Most of them just want to rule it.

Not really. High AC polarizes the world, making evil civs like evil civs more and good civs hating the evil civs more.
These days I try to hunt Hybbie down after teching up Infernal Pact just to slow the Hell terrain spread down.

All the Armageddon events still affect you, but as AV you suffer "less" from blight since you can run the Sac the Weak civic, and the eventual Armageddon doesn't kill off your demons from your gates, leaving you with your army largely intact, while everyone else is half-dead.
 
Not really. High AC polarizes the world, making evil civs like evil civs more and good civs hating the evil civs more.
These days I try to hunt Hybbie down after teching up Infernal Pact just to slow the Hell terrain spread down.

All the Armageddon events still affect you, but as AV you suffer "less" from blight since you can run the Sac the Weak civic, and the eventual Armageddon doesn't kill off your demons from your gates, leaving you with your army largely intact, while everyone else is half-dead.

Except, theoretically, Basium, if he is in the game. ;)
 
Well, I guess it's obvious I need to plan and prepare, but AC still can be used to my benefit.

I'm getting the message that as the Sheaim, my eventual goal should be a conquest victory, and I need to do the following:

1) Build Planar Gates in every city. I didn't do this.
2) Prepare to defend myself from the horsemen.
3) Use Sacrifice the Weak to weather the blight.
4) View the AC as fuel for my World Spell.
5) Hold off on pumping up the AC until I'm ready.
6) Focus on the Religion and War tech branches.

Anything else?

There's nothing wrong with Hell terrain, right? It spread to my land, but as far as I could tell each tile provided the same resources.
 
Well, I guess it's obvious I need to plan and prepare, but AC still can be used to my benefit.

I'm getting the message that as the Sheaim, my eventual goal should be a conquest victory, and I need to do the following:

1) Build Planar Gates in every city. I didn't do this.
2) Prepare to defend myself from the horsemen.
3) Use Sacrifice the Weak to weather the blight.
4) View the AC as fuel for my World Spell.
5) Hold off on pumping up the AC until I'm ready.
6) Focus on the Religion and War tech branches.

Anything else?

There's nothing wrong with Hell terrain, right? It spread to my land, but as far as I could tell each tile provided the same resources.

All very good ideas. Im not sure whats so bad about hell...
 
Not really. High AC polarizes the world, making evil civs like evil civs more and good civs hating the evil civs more.
These days I try to hunt Hybbie down after teching up Infernal Pact just to slow the Hell terrain spread down.

All the Armageddon events still affect you, but as AV you suffer "less" from blight since you can run the Sac the Weak civic, and the eventual Armageddon doesn't kill off your demons from your gates, leaving you with your army largely intact, while everyone else is half-dead.

Hm, pretty sure I've gotten "You are destroying the world" minus relation from other evil civs when I was sheaim?
 
Hell turns grain resources into crappy snake pillars until they're sanctified, and destroys flood plains permanently. Those are the only drawbacks.
 
Well, I guess it's obvious I need to plan and prepare, but AC still can be used to my benefit.

I'm getting the message that as the Sheaim, my eventual goal should be a conquest victory, and I need to do the following:

1) Build Planar Gates in every city. I didn't do this.
2) Prepare to defend myself from the horsemen.
3) Use Sacrifice the Weak to weather the blight.
4) View the AC as fuel for my World Spell.
5) Hold off on pumping up the AC until I'm ready.
6) Focus on the Religion and War tech branches.

Anything else?

There's nothing wrong with Hell terrain, right? It spread to my land, but as far as I could tell each tile provided the same resources.

7) Collect Death mana like its evil candy. Get 4 Eaters of Dreams (Sheaim Archmage UU). Conquer world.

I once killed all four horsemen with an army consisting only of 4 Eaters, 4 mages, and Rosier the Fallen. There were some very conveniently placed population 30 elf cities nearby when the horsies came. :lol:
 
7) Collect Death mana like its evil candy. Get 4 Eaters of Dreams (Sheaim Archmage UU). Conquer world.

I once killed all four horsemen with an army consisting only of 4 Eaters, 4 mages, and Rosier the Fallen. There were some very conveniently placed population 30 elf cities nearby when the horsies came. :lol:

Wait, the Eaters can immediately start using population even from a freshly captured city?
 
Wait, the Eaters can immediately start using population even from a freshly captured city?

Yup, an Eater can literally turn a size 15 city into 14 three duration wraiths (With quite possibly, strengths in the teens).

Get enough movement, and extensions II, and you can often have that eater attack, and destroy, multiple cities per turn, and then convert more into wraiths
It's amazingly powerful.
 
Responsible evil begins with Sanctifying the ruins of the cities you've razed, and not spreading Ashen Veil all over the place. :)

Edit: Since manual states that razing Ashen Veil cities actively lowers AC, perhaps spreading Ashen Veil to a city just before razing and Sanctifying it would result in total -1 AC point? o.O
 
No, the spreading to it adds 1, razing the city just removes that +1
 
No, the spreading to it adds 1, razing the city just removes that +1

Yes, and Sanctifying the ruins for +1 normally negates the -1 from razing a non-AV city.

I just tested this (thanks to world builder) on a Standard map, Emperor difficulty (might matter for AC calculation):
(+6 AC from spreading AV to my city, thus founding the holy city. AC counter 6/170 = 3%)
+1 AC from spreading AV to enemy capital that I added next to me. (7/170 = 4%)
-1 AC from razing the enemy capital (6/170 = 3%)
-1 AC from casting Sanctify to clear the ruins (5/170 = 2%, almost 3% but this is what the counter shows)

So total -1 compared to normal raze+Sanctify.
 
Yes, and Sanctifying the ruins for +1 normally negates the -1 from razing a non-AV city.

I just tested this (thanks to world builder) on a Standard map, Emperor difficulty (might matter for AC calculation):
(+6 AC from spreading AV to my city, thus founding the holy city. AC counter 6/170 = 3%)
+1 AC from spreading AV to enemy capital that I added next to me. (7/170 = 4%)
-1 AC from razing the enemy capital (6/170 = 3%)
-1 AC from casting Sanctify to clear the ruins (5/170 = 2%, almost 3% but this is what the counter shows)

So total -1 compared to normal raze+Sanctify.

Nope. You forgot +1 AC from the city ruins. Total = +/- 0 AC. Unless the game is bugged. I'll have to try it out. Sometime.

Also, war techs aren't that important when playing as the Sheaim. Better to focus on magic and religion.
 
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