FFH style ALC game

Hi,

My next couple of weeks are kinda free so i thought i would start a ALC style game, so i can improve my game to move up to monarch and help provide a example, to newbies, of how a FFH game should be played, or not played. I also need to improve my use of magic and religious units.

All the usual rules apply, but basically you guy's give advice then i play trying to follow that advice as best a i can.

I am using the latest version of FFH, 0.41? i think, with patch d.
Playing as the Hippus led by Tasunke. In this game there are 5 random evil civs, 4 good and 3 neutral plus me. Here are the settings:

and:


And here is the starting position:


You can't see it but to the NW of the top warrior there is cows and to the north of the blue circle there is corn. And oh yes i have already moved the scout and warrior, so no 2 pages of discussion on where to move them.

So, do we settle in place or head north to the blue circle? There seems to be jungle just to the south, in fact there is a line of jungle just below the bottom of the startingpic, so if we head north we would have space next to the capital for a other city, plus cows and corn in the fat cross. And to tech first? I was thinking AH if we head north or crafting --> Mining if we settle in place.

I will play out the first round tomorrow depending on how much feedback i get.

The save is at the bottom.
Pics sorted!

Mu'min said:

You can't see it...

Click to expand...

Ctrl-R is your friend, then zoom out a couple clicks so we can see the whole area. I'm not sure what kind of map you're playing here, but I wouldn't expect to have jungle right next to tundra; you should have some decent plains and grassland to the south (better than a dry tundra corn). Look for a spot with grains and a commerce resource.

If I were forced to settle to the north, I'd probably pick the hill just to the west of your warrior, so you lose the coast squares, and pick up what appears to be a freshwater lake. If there are some seafood resources in the black, there would be room for a city to use them.

Marathon on a huge map? I think you may need more than a couple weeks to play out this game.

The best option for a capital city that I see so far is to the Northwest near the warrior. But I would move the settler sw one space first and then reexamine the possibilites. There may or may not be some very good tiles you become aware of. If there is nothing good, then moving nw into the tundra and then nw into the forest becomes the next best moves, imho. I always try to start next to one or two 3 food tiles for the fastest possible start. I would even consider starting on the elephant tile, because you will get an unlosable luxury resource at the earliest possible moment without giving very much up to get it (in the long run). Also, you will want several minable hills in your fat cross to beef up production as early as possible. Also, the corn and Tomb will help counteract the unhealthiness from the flood plains (if any) when you get them hooked up. And you get the cow, which will be a good food, hammer, health resource as well.

This assessment is subject to review as more tiles defogged.

Doug Piranha said:

Ctrl-R is your friend, then zoom out a couple clicks so we can see the whole area. I'm not sure what kind of map you're playing here, but I wouldn't expect to have jungle right next to tundra; you should have some decent plains and grassland to the south (better than a dry tundra corn). Look for a spot with grains and a commerce resource.

If I were forced to settle to the north, I'd probably pick the hill just to the west of your warrior, so you lose the coast squares, and pick up what appears to be a freshwater lake. If there are some seafood resources in the black, there would be room for a city to use them.

Marathon on a huge map? I think you may need more than a couple weeks to play out this game.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I don't know any of the keyboard short cuts. You should be able to see the settings i used above now. Im playing with end of winter option, thats why there is tundra everywhere, most of those woods between the jungle and settler position will probably turn into jungle as well as the game goes on.

I really do have alot of time on my hands during the day - no job, no uni, don't even need lunch - so lots of time.

Ugh... end of winter...

I really haven't played with it enough, but that Tundra is going to become grassland and grasslands will turn into plains?

Anyway, I'd go SW one to get a better view. Try to avoid putting the tomb in a city's fat cross because it will never be worth much. I'd see what is available 2 SW if you want to risk it. Otherwise go 2 NW and settle just north of the Tomb. You are giving up a square but at least it's on a river. Don't settle at the blue circle because coasts are not worth much unless you are playing the Lanun.

I'd go Agriculture (Corn)-Animal Handling (Cow)-Crafting-Mining (Chop) and then start with Calendar so your second city can use that cotton and silk. (Also consider fishing-seafaring quickly if you plan on settling the coast at all (without those two the coast is almost completely useless in FFH2 imho). Mysticism can be an eventual goal in there somewhere so you can get to god king, but generally I want to knock out the basic economy techs ASAP.

Hah! I nice to see someone else who plays with end of winter. For those wondering, tundra can turn into either grassland or plains. Tiles with forests on them stay that way, so if there is a lot of plains forests, there is a good chance the tundra tiles will become plains as well.

Always go for Floodplains! No need to even ask! 2nd and 3rd cities can go for production and resources!

Your current spot doesn't have much growth potential. I suggest you settle 1N of the Tomb of Sucellus - flood plain, cow, corn, ivory in radius. The tribal village will be explored when you settle, so your warrior will be able to press on with exploration elsewhere.

I'd take a turn or two to explore the map a bit with that settler, using a hill when possible. Need to know if there are more floodplains next to that one thats visible.

Start pos kinda sucks, I'd spend a turn settler-exploring : 1 SW then NW towards foodplains, if possible end turn on a hill for a clear view of the vicinity.

But maybe I'd change my mind if you provide a broader screenshot with the resources highlited, before even moving... can't advise much until then... (yea I'm at work, can't open CIV)

Before end of turn anyways, check civics and switch to nationalism if not already (usual move for me to avoid barb swarming - open for discussion)

Ok, it seems the consensus is to explore a bit more, esspecially to the W-NW, and to settle away from the sea. I will move the settler SW, then move the scout SW --> W onto the hills, the warrior will move NW. I will do this for 1-2 turns then post the view of the land around the tomb with resources turned on.

But i must confess my first instinct would of been to settle in a coastal site for the access to the sea and trade routes. uumm maybe my thinking is still BtS oriented just goes to show why i need your help.

Explored a bit more! I move the settler SW and saw a tower on a hill to the W. I had one move left to me, so up i went, and saw all this:
to the north


and to the south:


The question left is where to settle?

I'd go with the spot 3/4 tiles west of the tomb to get the wine/gold/floodplains.
You'd get the ivory 3 tiles west, though I'm personally not a fan of hunting so I usually treat it as a +1 commerce tile

For future cities, you could hit the other gold north together with the food resources, then maybe expand along the river, southwards and westwards.

Tech-wise in this case proabably Agri > Crafting > Mining (can't remember what Tasunke starts with)

I think I'd go
Capital: 1tile E of Wine
2nd: 1 tile N of Tomb
3rd: 1 tile N of right Dye.

But it depends where the Copper is.

Tech order might be something like Crafting --> Calendar --> Mining --> a choice between Animal Husbandry, Bronze Working or Code of Laws.

definitely capital EAST of wine... That's a powerful start with 3 FP, rice, river wines, 2 hills and gold XD

go crafting - > mining first for the + 1 happiness from wine, commerce from gold and mines to kill animals.

As for later tech order, I'm a big fan of an early god king, especially with a commerce rich capital like this one.

what's the starting tech BTW? agri or explo ?

settling east of wine puts you on top on the floodplains though, which turns to a desert tile with -25% def

and.... wouldn't one tile west of wine put you out of range of the gold?

Tasunke starts with the aggressive, raider and horselord traits giving combat I and commando promotions to all units plus +1 and +10% withdrawal to mounted units. And X2 production speed to shipyard and seigeworkshop. His starting tech is Agi, and the palace gives horses and nature and air mana.

Settling one E of the wine would cost a FP. I was thinking 1SE of wine, 1N of the gold, that site would give at least 6 hills, 4 FP, wine and gold. Giving the choice between a poduction or commerce city.

Crafting --> Mining seems to be a good tech path to start. Crafting would allow Winery and Mining would uncover Copper and allow us to build mines and chop trees for settlers.

Do not settle on floodplains, you'll want to use that. Settle North of the Gold, you'll have 4 floodplains in your cross for early farms and later cottages. you'll have 2 hills in your cross (one of them gold). It's the perfect starting spot for tech and founding other cities.

Based on a this better view of the area I agree with settling 1N of the gold (SE of wine) and starting research with Crafting -> Mining.

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Mu'min said:

But i must confess my first instinct would of been to settle in a coastal site for the access to the sea and trade routes. uumm maybe my thinking is still BtS oriented just goes to show why i need your help.

Click to expand...

Founding your capitol on the coast without any sea resources to sweeten the deal probably isn't worthwhile. Unless you plan to run Foreign Trade and are sure you will be the first to build the Great Lighthouse, there won't be any substantial benefit. A good first city site determines your early research and growth potential, which is much more important than a couple more trade routes in your capitol.

my bad, I hadn't noticed the other hills... (eastern ones out of the 1st screenshot)

the "settling on the FP" was driven by a need for more than 2 hills, but i now agree with you

Chops are not "that" efficient in FFH but do provide a small boost. If you plan on adopting god king early, you might postpone the chopping until then to get the multiplier.. (or am I wrong ?)