Countering large number of mages

arcticnightwolf · Sep 5, 2009

Ok, let's say your opponent have in city
20 mages with these promotions:
- Air2 ((maelstorm)),
- Fire2 ((fireball)),
- Sun2 ((blighting light)),
- Combat2 ((+5 spell dmg per each Combat = +10 spell dmg total)),
- CircleTraining ((another +20 spell dmg; -20% spell resist for target)),
hawk ((for stealth detection)),
some Royal guards ((guardsman promotion)).

You know, that he send hawk to recon every turn, and there is no route to that city ((eliminates Commando promotion)).

When you come into his BFC he will deal 3x Maelstorm (( your unit's are on 60% health now )) and then 15-17x Fireballs ((with empowered2)) . If you manage to get into plot next to city, he'll cast 2x Blighting light ((stops unit)).

How'd you ((if possible successfully)) attack that city?? (( except late game heroes and Acheron ))

edit: i forget to mention, that leader is charismatic and agressive, and that new adepts start with 19 xps (( == getting all promotion mentioned above in second turn as upgraded to mage ))

Cupric Leane · Sep 5, 2009

Haste adepts and fireball mages of your own to start with. Chalid of the Burning Face second 2 movement paladins and champions and as many pumped up horsearchers and charioteers(rathas also) as you can assemble.

One adept casting haste on this stack o' doom will allow the different elements to approach closer to cast fireballs of their own, for Chalid to Pillar of Fire them (for some occasionally massive damage), your four Luriduses to face blast them as well, the paladins and champions to reach the city and attack; and as long as you have enough units to match theirs you can take the city in one turn. Remember, your strength 5 mages are good enough to take out weakened city defenders themselves (that's what the swords are for).

Emptiness · Sep 5, 2009

30-40 Pyre Zombies with Mobility

Onionsoilder · Sep 5, 2009

Emptiness said:
30-40 Pyre Zombies with Mobility

I don't think we should consider civilization-specific abilities. Otherwise, Amurites could just use their worldspell -> game over.

As far as the problem goes, keep in mind that assassins with Mobility II can move from outside of malstrom/fireball range and attack the city in a single turn. Granted, this does require having units that start with enough experience for two promotions, or otherwise getting experience elsewhere.

Massed fireballs of your own is another ability. If you follow up with chariots or horse archers, it may be possible to pick off damaged defenders.

A third option is to simply ignore the city. You said yourself it has no routes connected to it, so it can't produce any offensive units that can threaten you. If there are rivers connencting something like Iron, send horsemen/chariots to pillage them. It's probably a good idea to pillage everything anyway.

Bill Bisco · Sep 5, 2009

Onionsoilder said:
I don't think we should consider civilization-specific abilities.

Incorrect

Onionsoilder said:
Amurites could just use their worldspell -> game over.

Bingo, and that's if Firebows don't eat you alive earlier in the game.

Emptiness · Sep 5, 2009

Onionsoilder said:
Emptiness said:

30-40 Pyre Zombies with Mobility

Click to expand...

I don't think we should consider civilization-specific abilities.

Oh, I didn't mean that as a serious answer - I was just joking around. There are any number of ways to deal with that city that don't depend on playing any particular civ.

JonathanStrange · Sep 5, 2009

The city cannot be taken.

Not without subterfuge: invite the mages out for drinks and a friendly game of Somnium, then after having made sure they've drunk a magnificent quantity of Elven ale, sneak up behind them and BLAM!

Demus · Sep 6, 2009

the best option here would probably be (as previously stated) to simply ignore the city. Simply move around it to the next one, i doubt he's got 20 mages in every city he owns

Keep a stack nearby incase he decided to move the magestack out of the city (which he'll probably do when he realises you're going for his core cities instead of his fortress), with eighter mages or chariots of your own.

Bill Bisco · Sep 6, 2009

demus said:
the best option here would probably be (as previously stated) to simply ignore the city. Simply move around it to the next one, i doubt he's got 20 mages in every city he owns

keep a stack nearby incase he decided to move the magestack out of the city (which he'll probably do when he realises you're going for his core cities instead of his fortress), with eighter mages or chariots of your own.

no! -

JonathanStrange · Sep 6, 2009

I think simply ignoring the city would be best BUT that was not the question asked: which was how to take the city - not whether it was best left alone (which I think is best, since one could just go ravage the rest of the empire).

In previous MP games of years past, if I had an enemy who wouldn't leave his city, I'd just pillage everything with cheap units and watch his city shrink. He could keep his pop 1 city or take the field and fight.

But the OP wants to take the city by assault, no matter the cost.

Onionsoilder · Sep 6, 2009

I just got an idea:

Fireballs only have two movement. Therefore, you could make a 'shield' of units three-wide infront of your megastack. Malstrom would still hit, but the fireballs would be unable to cause collateral damage to the main host.

Bootsiuv · Sep 6, 2009

Onionsoilder said:
I just got an idea:

Fireballs only have two movement. Therefore, you could make a 'shield' of units three-wide infront of your megastack. Malstrom would still hit, but the fireballs would be unable to cause collateral damage to the main host.

Unless they have spell extension I or II, giving their fireballs 3 or 4 movement respectively.

I often give my mages mobility I as well, so they could likely use the empire roads to get around your fodder shield, summon the fireballs, and still make it back to the safety of their city.

This is assuming a human player is controlling the city in question....the A.I. would likely never figure that much out.

Emptiness · Sep 6, 2009

Bootsiuv said:
Unless they have spell extension I or II, giving their fireballs 3 or 4 movement respectively.

According to the OP they don't have extension.

-------------

Maelstrom has a 2-square range, as does unextended Fireball. His mages don't have Mobility, and there are no roads, so if he leaves the city to attack a stack of units massing 3-squares away he will be vulnerable to counterattack. Bring your own group of Mages (about four with Maelstrom, the rest with Fireball) together 3-squares from his city, and have a group of Horse Archers with Mobility stationed 4-squares away. If he leaves the city, even if he destroys your entire stack of Mages, you counterattack with the Horse Archers and win. If he stays in the city then your Mages advance one square and your Horse Archers advance two squares (joining with the Mages) and hit him with repeated Maelstrom followed by Fireballs. The Horse Archers close with the city and finish off any lingering resistance.

JonathanStrange · Sep 6, 2009

Sounds intriguing, are you choosing horse archers for their mobility or ?

Also, I don't recall all the immunities but aren't there a few units that have or promotions that give lightning or fire immunity or protection? It could help too.

Emptiness · Sep 6, 2009

JonathanStrange said:
Sounds intriguing, are you choosing horse archers for their mobility or ?

Yes. Any other move 4 unit (or move 3 unit + one Adept with Haste) could be used instead.

arcticnightwolf · Sep 6, 2009

JonathanStrange said:
Also, I don't recall all the immunities but aren't there a few units that have or promotions that give lightning or fire immunity or protection? It could help too.

yes, there are, but they are quite late in promotion tree

IIRC:

Combat5 -> Magic Resistence ((+20% resist. to all kind of magic)) -> source-specific ((death/lightn/fire/...)) resistence ((another ~~+20%~~ +50% to specific kind of magic))

Onionsoilder · Sep 6, 2009

arcticnightwolf said:
yes, there are, but they are quite late in promotion tree

IIRC:

Combat5 -> Magic Resistence ((+20% resist. to all kind of magic)) -> source-specific ((death/lightn/fire/...)) resistence ((another +20% to specific kind of magic))

The second one is 50%, for a total of 70%.

JonathanStrange · Sep 6, 2009

There's also the Tower of Alteration which could also help with additional spell resistances, iirc.

Onionsoilder · Sep 6, 2009

JonathanStrange said:
There's also the Tower of Alteration which could also help with additional spell resistances, iirc.

Also, if you're units are Orcish(Clan only, I think) Angel(Several available to all civs, mostly Heros) or Demon(Mostly Heroes as well) you get an additional 20%, bringing the total up to 110% resistance. Would that heal your unit? Hmm...

civ_king · Sep 6, 2009

suicide workers to build a road

4 Archmages+4 Liches use dominate so you score 4 mages (and 4 guardsmen) then they get out of range 8/25 done
Use mages to cast maelstorm to limit then fireballs kill 2 more mages 10/25 done
Alazkan uses his clone to attack (he's pimp with mobility, combat, blitz/orthus and commando) the other guys to basically dead
Alazkan attacks and kills 10 more, and retreats

Round 2
Archmages+Liches dominate+Alazkan mops up

I R WINNER!

Countering large number of mages

Emperor

Chieftain

[]

Reaver

Callous Calling

[]

PrinceWithA1000Enemies

King

Callous Calling

PrinceWithA1000Enemies

Reaver

Prince

[]

PrinceWithA1000Enemies

[]

Emperor

Reaver

PrinceWithA1000Enemies

Reaver

Deus Caritas Est

Similar threads