Civics Improvements Suggestions

<Nexus> · Jun 30, 2015

I was looking around and found Jooyo's Addons Pack
Most of its content seem to be incorporated into RAND, but I found something interesting in it:

Enslavement
Now with Slavery Civic you can enslave your enemy units. You have 15% chance to enslave unit after winning of combat.
Known issue: Description only available in civilopedia not on ingame Civic Screen.

I wonder if that part of code is also in RAND somewhere hidden :rolleyes:

Ohh my... Would be great to have enslavement with Slavery :mischief:

Arakhor · Jun 30, 2015

C2C has something like that, as you can sometimes gain military or civilian captives when attacking other units. I wouldn't be too fussed if it wasn't included.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Jun 30, 2015

I think code is not too different from War Prizes. After all that's just enslaving a naval unit.

<Nexus> · Jun 30, 2015

45°38'N-13°47'E;13882790 said:
I think code is not too different from War Prizes. After all that's just enslaving a naval unit.

Hmmm... Is it more than just XML/python work?
I wonder if I could do some modmod enabling it...

Vokarya · Jun 30, 2015

You can try this. There is an <iEnslavementChance> tag that seems to work. I just did a very cursory experiment by adding this:

Code:

			<iEnslavementChance>10</iEnslavementChance>

to the Slavery civic and I get this when I fire up the game.

View attachment 395909

I have not actually tried to play the game to see how this works. I think enslaving enemy units would be interesting if not made over-complex.

<Nexus> · Jul 1, 2015

Vokarya said:
You can try this. There is an <iEnslavementChance> tag that seems to work. I just did a very cursory experiment by adding this:

Code:

<iEnslavementChance>10</iEnslavementChance>

to the Slavery civic and I get this when I fire up the game.

View attachment 395909

I have not actually tried to play the game to see how this works. I think enslaving enemy units would be interesting if not made over-complex.

THX!

Will try it when I have some time (not in the next 2 days unfortunately).

BTW what are your ideas about enslavement?
I think the easiest and most fitting way would be capture units as Workers and allow Workers to hurry :food:

or

in city. This second part would make sense under any civic IMHO. Why restrict Workers to improve things only outside a city?

45°38'N-13°47'E · Jul 1, 2015

Vokarya said:
You can try this. There is an <iEnslavementChance> tag that seems to work. I just did a very cursory experiment by adding this:

Code:

<iEnslavementChance>10</iEnslavementChance>

to the Slavery civic and I get this when I fire up the game.

View attachment 395909

I have not actually tried to play the game to see how this works. I think enslaving enemy units would be interesting if not made over-complex.

If it works and AI knows how to use it, it's ok with me to use this tag.
Also, about other civics: it looks like AI is mostly using Nationalism when it gets discovered. Perhaps we should tune it down a bit; what about taking away that +10% hammers? The main problem is that it's impossible to have commerce/connection with foreign cities because Nationalism forbids it. Or we could simply remove that No Foreign Connection and decrease maintenance bonus. Also AI doesn't use MAD anymore, never. What about removing that -10% culture and reduce -20% commerce to -10%?

<Nexus> · Jul 1, 2015

45°38'N-13°47'E;13884212 said:
If it works and AI knows how to use it, it's ok with me to use this tag.
Also, about other civics: it looks like AI is mostly using Nationalism when it gets discovered. Perhaps we should tune it down a bit; what about taking away that +10% hammers? The main problem is that it's impossible to have commerce/connection with foreign cities because Nationalism forbids it. Or we could simply remove that No Foreign Connection and decrease maintenance bonus. Also AI doesn't use MAD anymore, never. What about removing that -10% culture and reduce -20% commerce to -10%?

I personally don't like that many civics has the No Foreign Connection tag. Could some be replaced with a -50% from Foreign Connections ? Nationalism and Mercantilism for example.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Jul 1, 2015

Sogroon said:
I personally don't like that many civics has the No Foreign Connection tag. Could some be replaced with a -50% from Foreign Connections ? Nationalism and Mercantilism for example.

Yeah, that could be a good solution too. I'll think more about it

Vokarya · Jul 1, 2015

45°38'N-13°47'E;13884212 said:
If it works and AI knows how to use it, it's ok with me to use this tag.
Also, about other civics: it looks like AI is mostly using Nationalism when it gets discovered. Perhaps we should tune it down a bit; what about taking away that +10% hammers? The main problem is that it's impossible to have commerce/connection with foreign cities because Nationalism forbids it. Or we could simply remove that No Foreign Connection and decrease maintenance bonus. Also AI doesn't use MAD anymore, never. What about removing that -10% culture and reduce -20% commerce to -10%?

If I didn't go far enough with Nationalism and the AI is still using it (I did take away the culture bonus and dropped the hammers/espionage), I think it's okay to go even further. Removing the hammer bonus completely would be a good next step.

As far as MAD goes, what would happen if we took away all the culture and commerce penalties and took away the draft ability? For some reason, I don't think MAD should be drafting.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Jul 2, 2015

Vokarya said:
If I didn't go far enough with Nationalism and the AI is still using it (I did take away the culture bonus and dropped the hammers/espionage), I think it's okay to go even further. Removing the hammer bonus completely would be a good next step.

As far as MAD goes, what would happen if we took away all the culture and commerce penalties and took away the draft ability? For some reason, I don't think MAD should be drafting.

Ok, wait, I forgot there's an iAIWeight tag that's been used months ago to make AI more willing to use certain civics. It's 0 for Mobilization and AI uses Mobilization a lot anyway, so that's fine. I've done some testing and I would reduce Volounteer Army weight (from 100 to 75) and change MAD from -20 to 30 and Standing Army from 0 to 25. I'd also reset Nationalist and Communalism weight to 0.

About No Foreign Connection, I would leave that only for Barter and Protectionism and Post Scarcity which currently uses it. I would remove it from Nationalist, Coinage, Mercantile; and reduce AI weight for Post-Scarcity from 45 to 0. I would make Nationalisti, Coinage and Mercantile to get some Domestic Commerce boost (+50%, +20%, +30% respectively) and get some Foreign Commerce penalty (-50%, -20%, -30% respectively). Finally I would add a -20 weight to nobility which AI seems to love too much. I know these values sound artificial and in general I don't like this kind of tricks but bonus/penalty looks good on most civics now so it's just to give a little help to AI to evaluate the best civics they can use. In this case we don't need to change Nationalism (which anyway looks good to me); as for MAD, reducing Culture and Commerce penalty without taking them away completely looks good to me; I will also reduce Draft by half. I need to test some more but it looks ok to me until now. What do you think?

Vokarya · Jul 2, 2015

45°38'N-13°47'E;13885584 said:
Ok, wait, I forgot there's an iAIWeight tag that's been used months ago to make AI more willing to use certain civics. It's 0 for Mobilization and AI uses Mobilization a lot anyway, so that's fine. I've done some testing and I would reduce Volounteer Army weight (from 100 to 75) and change MAD from -20 to 30 and Standing Army from 0 to 25. I'd also reset Nationalist and Communalism weight to 0.

About No Foreign Connection, I would leave that only for Barter and Protectionism and Post Scarcity which currently uses it. I would remove it from Nationalist, Coinage, Mercantile; and reduce AI weight for Post-Scarcity from 45 to 0. I would make Nationalisti, Coinage and Mercantile to get some Domestic Commerce boost (+50%, +20%, +30% respectively) and get some Foreign Commerce penalty (-50%, -20%, -30% respectively). Finally I would add a -20 weight to nobility which AI seems to love too much. I know these values sound artificial and in general I don't like this kind of tricks but bonus/penalty looks good on most civics now so it's just to give a little help to AI to evaluate the best civics they can use. In this case we don't need to change Nationalism (which anyway looks good to me); as for MAD, reducing Culture and Commerce penalty without taking them away completely looks good to me; I will also reduce Draft by half. I need to test some more but it looks ok to me until now. What do you think?

Go ahead and try it and see if you get the results you think are best. I'm not super-attached to any particular civic staying the way it is.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Jul 4, 2015

Vokarya said:
You can try this. There is an <iEnslavementChance> tag that seems to work. I just did a very cursory experiment by adding this:

Code:

<iEnslavementChance>10</iEnslavementChance>

to the Slavery civic and I get this when I fire up the game.

View attachment 395909

I have not actually tried to play the game to see how this works. I think enslaving enemy units would be interesting if not made over-complex.

I've tried and no, it doesn't work straight away because part of the code is commented out or missing in the dll. However, I think I can fix it easily enough.

<Nexus> · Jul 6, 2015

45°38'N-13°47'E;13887741 said:
I've tried and no, it doesn't work straight away because part of the code is commented out or missing in the dll. However, I think I can fix it easily enough.

Same here. Tried it with 30% but didn't get anything from battles.

Other:

Does anyone ever use Feudalism? In my current game the the AI seems happy to use, but I don't know why. I find it such a poor choice. The defense bonus is no use in a time of peace.
I would give it +1 :food:

for farms and pasturage. That would well represent what the feudal age was.

BTW: Feudal's civic building says +1 :food:

but it's +1 :hammers:

instead.

Samson · Jul 6, 2015

Sogroon said:
Same here. Tried it with 30% but didn't get anything from battles.

Other:

Does anyone ever use Feudalism? In my current game the the AI seems happy to use, but I don't know why. I find it such a poor choice. The defense bonus is no use in a time of peace.
I would give it +1 for farms and pasturage. That would well represent what the feudal age was.

BTW: Feudal's civic building says +1 but it's +1 instead.

Do you mean Feudal in the Society catagory? I use it occasionally, as the others before you get Bourgeois or Liberal are also pretty rubbish. The +1 experience point can make the difference between producing units at 10 rather than 9, which can make a difference in war. Along with the intrinsic defence and faster walls and castle this can help.

I never build the "Employs 1 citizen" civic buildings, esp. now you cannot disband buildings.

Rezca · Jul 6, 2015

Sogroon said:
Same here. Tried it with 30% but didn't get anything from battles.

Other:

Does anyone ever use Feudalism? In my current game the the AI seems happy to use, but I don't know why. I find it such a poor choice. The defense bonus is no use in a time of peace.
I would give it +1 for farms and pasturage. That would well represent what the feudal age was.

BTW: Feudal's civic building says +1 but it's +1 instead.

I use it sometimes, if only for the Shanty Town building or 'roleplay' reasons (And sometimes the defensive boost does indeed help

)

<Nexus> · Jul 6, 2015

Rezca said:
I use it sometimes, if only for the Shanty Town building or 'roleplay' reasons (And sometimes the defensive boost does indeed help )

Shanty town belongs to Vassalage military civic

BTW: Shanty Towns would fit to Caste as well as a civic building. Or even better.

Rezca · Jul 6, 2015

Sogroon said:
Shanty town belongs to Vassalage military civic

BTW: Shanty Towns would fit to Caste as well as a civic building. Or even better.

I was juuuust coming back to edit my post about that too :lol:

"Oh derp, wrong civic I mentioned there!"

<Nexus> · Jul 7, 2015

Rezca said:
I was juuuust coming back to edit my post about that too

"Oh derp, wrong civic I mentioned there!"

I'm nit-picking champion :trophy:

<Nexus> · Jul 21, 2015

Back on Atheism civic discussion:

How about a civic building for the two atheist civics:
Atheist Propaganda or Religion Ban or whatever...
Replaces all Temples. Religions without their main spread building will go decay faster... at least in theory...

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