Well if no-one objects I'll look to play in about 16 hrs from now using Ozbenno's PPP. Settle GG in Delhi and stop once we take Tokyo and Kyoto or anything else bad happens.
Thanks Sleepless and sorry again all. RL can be a pain sometimes
SGOTM 15 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Thanks Sleepless and sorry again all. RL can be a pain sometimes
Ronnie1
Deity
Good Luck Sleepless!
Grifftavian
Emperor
No objections here. Good Luck, Sleepless!
I suggest we take those but next person try and see if we can get something better than archery for the third tech.
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
So what is the plan for who plays next? Sounds like Oz is unavailable til Sunday?
I am a bit squeezed this week with tax deadline coming up (three to prepare), so if we want to get one in before Oz on Sunday, is someone else in a position to do that?
dV
I am a bit squeezed this week with tax deadline coming up (three to prepare), so if we want to get one in before Oz on Sunday, is someone else in a position to do that?
dV
adrianj
Deity
I'm very satisfied with how things are turning out
The AI tech rate does look like quite a challenge. They are happily trading amongst themselves while we are left out in the cold. The "must stay in Hindu" religion is looking ever more diabolical.
I think if we get OB with Hammu, we should endeavour to convert enough of his cities to get him into Hindu as well - but not so many that we lose control of the AP.
That Toku is the only AI we've met with Aesthetics is quite a nice bonus. We should definitly but all efforts toward getting to Music ASAP.
Re Civics - Rep+Bureau remain for sure. I prefer Caste System so that we can start assigning Artists to generate artist
+ 
. But full artist mode would be better if we had Pacifism as well so I'm comfortable with either Caste or Slavery. Theocracy won't be helping us any more, so OR is the logical alternative. Paganism is at least cheaper to run than OR, but the benefit of +
on building builds and not needing monasteries to build missionaries is too good a bonus to miss out on I think.
We should alternate between Caste and Slavery, spending more time in Caste. Furthermore, we should carefully plan what it is we want to whip in each Slavery cycle.
Builds: Yes, a spear or two for Kyoto sounds wise. Once we switch to OR, Bombay can produce at least one Christian missionary to spread it to Delhi. Likewise with Kyoto and Buddhism. Other cities - we should balance our need for infrastructure (temples/monasteries/libraries) with our desire to quickly tech to Music. In other words, instead of working mines, work farms + artist specialits.
The AI tech rate does look like quite a challenge. They are happily trading amongst themselves while we are left out in the cold. The "must stay in Hindu" religion is looking ever more diabolical.
I think if we get OB with Hammu, we should endeavour to convert enough of his cities to get him into Hindu as well - but not so many that we lose control of the AP.
That Toku is the only AI we've met with Aesthetics is quite a nice bonus. We should definitly but all efforts toward getting to Music ASAP.
Re Civics - Rep+Bureau remain for sure. I prefer Caste System so that we can start assigning Artists to generate artist
+ . But full artist mode would be better if we had Pacifism as well so I'm comfortable with either Caste or Slavery. Theocracy won't be helping us any more, so OR is the logical alternative. Paganism is at least cheaper to run than OR, but the benefit of + on building builds and not needing monasteries to build missionaries is too good a bonus to miss out on I think.We should alternate between Caste and Slavery, spending more time in Caste. Furthermore, we should carefully plan what it is we want to whip in each Slavery cycle.
Builds: Yes, a spear or two for Kyoto sounds wise. Once we switch to OR, Bombay can produce at least one Christian missionary to spread it to Delhi. Likewise with Kyoto and Buddhism. Other cities - we should balance our need for infrastructure (temples/monasteries/libraries) with our desire to quickly tech to Music. In other words, instead of working mines, work farms + artist specialits.
adrianj
Deity
Other observations:
I hadn't noticed before - Liz is the Buddhist founder. No wonder she is streaking ahead in tech.
Does Tokugawa have any Buddhist cities? If not, and he has some other religion in his cities we could get lucky and see him convert to something that isn't buddhism. The likely result of that would be him closing borders with Liz and possibly drawing her ire more than us. A side benefit would be he wouldn't be friends with anyone, so we could declare war on him again without -ve diplo from the others.
I hadn't noticed before - Liz is the Buddhist founder. No wonder she is streaking ahead in tech.
Does Tokugawa have any Buddhist cities? If not, and he has some other religion in his cities we could get lucky and see him convert to something that isn't buddhism. The likely result of that would be him closing borders with Liz and possibly drawing her ire more than us. A side benefit would be he wouldn't be friends with anyone, so we could declare war on him again without -ve diplo from the others.
Conquistador 63
Deity
My 2¢
In the games I've played for fast culture I do not hire early artists. I usually work farms and mines to build/whip/chop temples and missionaries for all the religions in the auxiliary cities, and that includes the GP farm(s). I run slavery/OR until the end of this phase.
I see we have 8 cities now. Do we plan to capture last 2 japanese cities later? If so, we could be able to gift them to Liz and build a couple more in the island (overseas trade routes). 10 cities is ok for culture I guess.
Have we chosen our legendary-to-be cities yet?
In the games I've played for fast culture I do not hire early artists. I usually work farms and mines to build/whip/chop temples and missionaries for all the religions in the auxiliary cities, and that includes the GP farm(s). I run slavery/OR until the end of this phase.
I see we have 8 cities now. Do we plan to capture last 2 japanese cities later? If so, we could be able to gift them to Liz and build a couple more in the island (overseas trade routes). 10 cities is ok for culture I guess.
Have we chosen our legendary-to-be cities yet?
adrianj
Deity
I propose the early artists more as a way to generate in a short burst. Obviously scientist specialists would be better in this respect, but they run the risk of contaminating our gene pool.
Having said that, one or two Great Scientists in the near future wouldn't be all bad. They can bulb Philo + Education for us.
in a short burst. Obviously scientist specialists would be better in this respect, but they run the risk of contaminating our gene pool.Having said that, one or two Great Scientists in the near future wouldn't be all bad. They can bulb Philo + Education for us.
Well done Sleepless!
I should be able to get some turns in Sunday but hopefully someone might be able to take a few before then.
I should be able to get some turns in Sunday but hopefully someone might be able to take a few before then.
Grifftavian
Emperor
Good job, Sleepless. 
I see Kyoto has an Academy, that's a nice bonus.
IMO, our Hindu Missionary in Osaka should continue on to Kyoto and attempt to spread Hinduism there; would help with unhappiness and get Kyoto's borders to pop sooner.
I doubt Toku will give us anything other than Aesthetics/Sailing/Archery for a Peace Treaty. Could try exchanging Sailing & Archery for Iron Working, but I think it unlikely Toku would give us a Tech that allows us a better Attacking unit. Plus, if we're going to get a Peace Treaty, Sailing would be nice to get a couple of cities on that western island.
Like dv, I'm doing the Income Tax grind at the moment, so probably won't be available to play any turns before Sunday.
I see Kyoto has an Academy, that's a nice bonus.
IMO, our Hindu Missionary in Osaka should continue on to Kyoto and attempt to spread Hinduism there; would help with unhappiness and get Kyoto's borders to pop sooner.
I doubt Toku will give us anything other than Aesthetics/Sailing/Archery for a Peace Treaty. Could try exchanging Sailing & Archery for Iron Working, but I think it unlikely Toku would give us a Tech that allows us a better Attacking unit. Plus, if we're going to get a Peace Treaty, Sailing would be nice to get a couple of cities on that western island.
Like dv, I'm doing the Income Tax grind at the moment, so probably won't be available to play any turns before Sunday.
adrianj
Deity
Considering it is Thursday now, Sunday isn't really that far away. At least I assume Oz meant Sunday Australia time.
For the peace deal, we should make a list of offers to work through. HBR is the only tech we don't really want. Archery is also pretty lame. IW is nice, but not essential to a cultural victory. Aesthetics we definitely want. Sailing would be really good to include as well so we can settle the western island.
I think try peace deal in this order: (~value)
Aesthetics (468)+Sailing(156)+Alphabet(468)+IW(312)+Archery(93). Already Declined.
Aesthetics+Sailing+Alphabet+IW. Wishful thinking. Total value 1404.
Aesthetics+Sailing+Alphabet+Archery. Also unlikely. Total value 1185.
Aesthetics+Sailing+Alphabet. Value 1092.
Aesthetics+Sailing+IW+Archery. Value 1029.
Aesthetics+Sailing+IW. Value 936.
Aesthetics+Sailing+Archery. We know he'll go for this. Total value 717.
For the peace deal, we should make a list of offers to work through. HBR is the only tech we don't really want. Archery is also pretty lame. IW is nice, but not essential to a cultural victory. Aesthetics we definitely want. Sailing would be really good to include as well so we can settle the western island.
I think try peace deal in this order: (~value)
Aesthetics (468)+Sailing(156)+Alphabet(468)+IW(312)+Archery(93). Already Declined.
Aesthetics+Sailing+Alphabet+IW. Wishful thinking. Total value 1404.
Aesthetics+Sailing+Alphabet+Archery. Also unlikely. Total value 1185.
Aesthetics+Sailing+Alphabet. Value 1092.
Aesthetics+Sailing+IW+Archery. Value 1029.
Aesthetics+Sailing+IW. Value 936.
Aesthetics+Sailing+Archery. We know he'll go for this. Total value 717.
Interesting blooper by shulec in a HOF thread
Looks like kakkumeika (sp?) are looking at an AP victory. This something we should be considering as well?
Is it worth someone (might have the little bit of time required) getting the best peace deal possible (as outlined by aj above) before planning the next set of turns?
Looks like kakkumeika (sp?) are looking at an AP victory. This something we should be considering as well?
Is it worth someone (might have the little bit of time required) getting the best peace deal possible (as outlined by aj above) before planning the next set of turns?
AP Victory. Problems I can see is getting a missionary to everybody. Has been spread to 2 naturally so far. I like AJ's option of spreading Hindu to Hammy and getting him to convert if he opens borders after our AP resolution. We need someone else to vote for us and he seems the most likely. def something to keep in mind especially if the option comes up.
peace techs?? Aesth and sailing def required. I do like archery for the city defenders. Although not certain its very likely Liz will attack us. It will be spears v knights and archers v xbows. Not great but about the best we can do till lbows.
legendary cities?? I would aim for Delhi - Bombay and use Kyoto as a GP farm and possibly the third. Alot depends on how quick we can get its food tiles back.
Edit. Amount of cities. We need at least 9 for 3 cathederals per religion, So an island city seems best to me whether we put one or 2 (2 will give all our cities trade routes when we get currency). Shame we can't get both food sources with just 1 city though.
There are also the possibility of cow and fish sites. Cow will be good for the extra health resource.
Note I did trade our deer to Liz for 7gp so we don't have any atm though would like to keep supplying resources to hammy till we get the +2. Currently at +1
peace techs?? Aesth and sailing def required. I do like archery for the city defenders. Although not certain its very likely Liz will attack us. It will be spears v knights and archers v xbows. Not great but about the best we can do till lbows.
legendary cities?? I would aim for Delhi - Bombay and use Kyoto as a GP farm and possibly the third. Alot depends on how quick we can get its food tiles back.
Edit. Amount of cities. We need at least 9 for 3 cathederals per religion, So an island city seems best to me whether we put one or 2 (2 will give all our cities trade routes when we get currency). Shame we can't get both food sources with just 1 city though.
There are also the possibility of cow and fish sites. Cow will be good for the extra health resource.
Note I did trade our deer to Liz for 7gp so we don't have any atm though would like to keep supplying resources to hammy till we get the +2. Currently at +1
Conquistador 63
Deity
The usual solution to closed borders for AP wins is to build cities, spread the religion and gift them to the grumpy AIs, but since we did not manage to explore the map well, I'm not sure if that would possible at all.
About the legendary cities, the advantage of cottaging them early is that helps research while the science slider is high on the way to Lib, but apparently we had to neglect them because of other priorities.
adrianj
Deity
I question whether or not we really need 9+ cities. The cathedrals in the third city aren't put to all that much use if we end up using GArtists to bomb over half of its culture.
My vision for Artists bombs would be something like:
Total GArtists = 16.
Delhi - 0 bombs.
City #2 (Bombay?) - 6 bombs. (24000/50000)
City #3 (Kyoto? Vijay?) - 10 bombs. (40000/50000)
Obviously I'm completely guessing here, but it seems feasible in my head. The point is that the last city doesn't need to make all that much culture all by itself. The extra effort we put in to settling more cities and building/whipping 12 more temples and 4 more cathedrals I don't think is worth it. I think our efforts could be better spent getting to Liberalism ASAP and producing all the GArtists we need.
We are at 275 AD... so our Liberalism date isn't going to be that flash. I think swapping out one GArtist to part bulb Education is a good idea.So perhaps right now we could pick one of our cities with a lot of food and run a whole bunch of Scientists for a short period. We should do it after we have Philo (Pacifism) and while we're learning Paper. Not in Delhi though - it should be working its cottages and growing.
Using another GS to bulb Philo or Paper is more marginal. Not to mention impossible unless we deviate through Alphabet.
Phases of the game remaining:
1) Tech to Music. Build Sistine Chapel. Still growing cities and building infrastructure.
2) Tech to Philosophy. Switch to Pacifism. Start assigning artists under Caste System. (and scientists in one city for Education). The artists are a significant source of
3) Tech to Liberalism, get there first and take Nationalism. Switch to Free Speech. Start completing Cathedrals.
4) Tech to Drama. Turn down science slider for culture slider. Maximise Culture.
My vision for Artists bombs would be something like:
Total GArtists = 16.
Delhi - 0 bombs.
City #2 (Bombay?) - 6 bombs. (24000/50000)
City #3 (Kyoto? Vijay?) - 10 bombs. (40000/50000)
Obviously I'm completely guessing here, but it seems feasible in my head. The point is that the last city doesn't need to make all that much culture all by itself. The extra effort we put in to settling more cities and building/whipping 12 more temples and 4 more cathedrals I don't think is worth it. I think our efforts could be better spent getting to Liberalism ASAP and producing all the GArtists we need.
We are at 275 AD... so our Liberalism date isn't going to be that flash. I think swapping out one GArtist to part bulb Education is a good idea.
Using another GS to bulb Philo or Paper is more marginal. Not to mention impossible unless we deviate through Alphabet.
Phases of the game remaining:
1) Tech to Music. Build Sistine Chapel. Still growing cities and building infrastructure.
2) Tech to Philosophy. Switch to Pacifism. Start assigning artists under Caste System. (and scientists in one city for Education). The artists are a significant source of
3) Tech to Liberalism, get there first and take Nationalism. Switch to Free Speech. Start completing Cathedrals.
4) Tech to Drama. Turn down science slider for culture slider. Maximise Culture.
adrianj
Deity
I'm not opposed to an island city however - overseas trade routes are valuable.
Half price temples and cathederals seem worth it to me as we have the building resources for the cathederals and the production to build them. Alot depends on the math 
. How many non GA people we get etc.
So I would favour putting one perhaps 2 cities on the island. Depends if we have ob with Hammy.
Aesthetics also lets us build the Parth and SoZ. Both give good artist points and a cheap S Paya will let us run pacifism much earlier?
. How many non GA people we get etc.So I would favour putting one perhaps 2 cities on the island. Depends if we have ob with Hammy.
Aesthetics also lets us build the Parth and SoZ. Both give good artist points and a cheap S Paya will let us run pacifism much earlier?
adrianj
Deity
Great point about Aesthetics wonders. Would be nice for Delhi and Bombay to get started on these immediately.
Anyone available to go in and make the trade with Toku? If noone has within the hour then I can go ahead and do it.
Anyone available to go in and make the trade with Toku? If noone has within the hour then I can go ahead and do it.
