RR11 - Takeshi's castle
- Thread starter r_rolo1
- Start date
Ok, saw the save. Plan is to pump military and use it. 
I think the former Chinese cities should also pump (that means whip) some cats to speed things up. I think at least that the attack on Chengdu will be way too costly without some collateral. Do we know where the last chinese city is? More west I guess? I'd just kill the Chinese off, unless he is willing to give something really nice when he's left with 1 city (gunpowder). Only that way he'll live 10 turns more. Is Korea next target, or Mongolia? Won't strike in my set, but possibly get units positioned. Oh wait, just see rolo says Khmer AND Korea. Also good.
What to do with the great person we'll pop. A GS an academy in the cap surely or do we want to bulb something? And GM? Do some trade mission into the wide unknown or just settle?
Tech, will go for engineering. How about literature next as a quick tech? If we manage to get a 10 XP unit (shouldn't be too hard) at least we can build the HE.
And why didn't we pop the hut just north on our home turf yet? Or do we wait for rolo to net us astro again?
I think the former Chinese cities should also pump (that means whip) some cats to speed things up. I think at least that the attack on Chengdu will be way too costly without some collateral. Do we know where the last chinese city is? More west I guess? I'd just kill the Chinese off, unless he is willing to give something really nice when he's left with 1 city (gunpowder). Only that way he'll live 10 turns more. Is Korea next target, or Mongolia? Won't strike in my set, but possibly get units positioned. Oh wait, just see rolo says Khmer AND Korea. Also good.
What to do with the great person we'll pop. A GS an academy in the cap surely or do we want to bulb something? And GM? Do some trade mission into the wide unknown or just settle?
Tech, will go for engineering. How about literature next as a quick tech? If we manage to get a 10 XP unit (shouldn't be too hard) at least we can build the HE.
And why didn't we pop the hut just north on our home turf yet? Or do we wait for rolo to net us astro again?
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Last city is Lhasa, deep in the Himilaya mountains. I'd suggest a raze there as you'll never get a decent city out of it.
On war I'd prefer Korea>Mongol>Khmer myself, Korea as they should be easy enough to roll over, Mongol to secure Northern China (culturally), and Khmer because, well because.
I think you're right on whipping some catas before going after Chengdu, though I'm not expecting much after it.
On war I'd prefer Korea>Mongol>Khmer myself, Korea as they should be easy enough to roll over, Mongol to secure Northern China (culturally), and Khmer because, well because.
I think you're right on whipping some catas before going after Chengdu, though I'm not expecting much after it.
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- Mar 11, 2008
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Korea does look like a good next target and that land is pretty nice actually, plus it is close.
I say we gauge the value of the bulbs for whatever GP we get. I'm not sure our cap is ideal for an academy. Is there another city with better commerce/beaker potential for an academy?
I say we gauge the value of the bulbs for whatever GP we get. I'm not sure our cap is ideal for an academy. Is there another city with better commerce/beaker potential for an academy?
r_rolo1
King of myself
Lhasa is 4 W of Chengdu:
Rough terrain, but far easier than Chengdu. Not sure about the raze ( it is a budhist city and even if it does only missionaries until we change religion, it would be useful ), but I'll leave that to the player that has it in hand. we need to take care, since I seen a chinese musket going south in my set and , by the list of Khmer cities, Pagan ( the second barb city to the south of the pic above, not directly seeable in there ) might still be a barb city and takeable by the Chinese.
A GS ATM would bulb partly PP. IMHO it is a good call, better than a academy in any of our cities. GM would partly bulb Guilds, another nice call. So IMHO or we save the GP that comes out for a GA or we bulb.
I'm not for going against the Mongols for now. Except their city that was captured from the Chinese, their land sucks badly. IMHO we should let him to get some land in Siberia and then capture the good bits of it. Now it would simply be a waste of our resources, given that there are better targets ( say, India ).
I'm ok with
on the Chinese cities ( in fact, I was going to suggest that myself ). We need more punch fast and that is the best way of getting some extra units in the area. We have enough of happy gap to sustain it...
On the hut ... well, with our current techs, we can only pop Drama. We can let it there for what I'm concerned and pop it when we decide to make a city in Hokkaido.
Techwise ... well, depends on the bulbs. I'm for finishing Enginerring ( never before 15 turns by my math ) + finishing whatever we bulb. It would be extremely nice to extort Gunpowder, but that might be unviable.
Spoiler :
Rough terrain, but far easier than Chengdu. Not sure about the raze ( it is a budhist city and even if it does only missionaries until we change religion, it would be useful ), but I'll leave that to the player that has it in hand. we need to take care, since I seen a chinese musket going south in my set and , by the list of Khmer cities, Pagan ( the second barb city to the south of the pic above, not directly seeable in there ) might still be a barb city and takeable by the Chinese.
A GS ATM would bulb partly PP. IMHO it is a good call, better than a academy in any of our cities. GM would partly bulb Guilds, another nice call. So IMHO or we save the GP that comes out for a GA or we bulb.
I'm not for going against the Mongols for now. Except their city that was captured from the Chinese, their land sucks badly. IMHO we should let him to get some land in Siberia and then capture the good bits of it. Now it would simply be a waste of our resources, given that there are better targets ( say, India ).
I'm ok with
on the Chinese cities ( in fact, I was going to suggest that myself ). We need more punch fast and that is the best way of getting some extra units in the area. We have enough of happy gap to sustain it...On the hut ... well, with our current techs, we can only pop Drama. We can let it there for what I'm concerned and pop it when we decide to make a city in Hokkaido.
Techwise ... well, depends on the bulbs. I'm for finishing Enginerring ( never before 15 turns by my math ) + finishing whatever we bulb. It would be extremely nice to extort Gunpowder, but that might be unviable.
Thy_Spellcraft
King
As I said: Keep in mind there are two-three cats already on the way for chengdu!
And I see another reason for going wang as next target: His culture is getting annoying.. And as his cities are close by the maintanance tzo pay would not be that high!
Do some MM and set more cities to military. Get existing siege units in position. Takes some turns to get there, but then after 3 suicidal cats, only 1 samurai finds his glorious demise at the gates of Chengdu.
Then Asoka bows his head and says hello, surely foreseeing the fate the mighty Japanese have in store for him. And for the rest of mankind.
The Khmer ask us to join war against the Mongols, but we decline as we are civilized people. We don't declare on third party's demands, we rather bring the message ourselves. And sometimes we even bring the message of peace. At a small price. Gunpowder was too much to ask for, but I thought it worth to get these techs and look for another sparring partner meanwhile.
Then in 1340 we learn engineering. We decide to go for printing press next as 10 years earlier the great scientist Merit Ptah was born and he was duly transformed into partial knowledge of how to mechanically copy stuff. We also get a silly fugitive spy event with the Koreans, which gets us some EP. Actually, we are about to strike the Koreans so who cares about EP.
Korea obviously isn't aware that the real threat doesn't come from the great asian plain, but from overseas. Don't show your capital defended with a mere longbow regiment and a juicy workforce and your other city with 2 of those regiments...
...if a bloodthirsty madman with a fully loaded navy is waiting within striking distance.
Can't resist the temptation, so declare and strike amphibiously. For each longbow one samurai perishes, but that's a fair deal, if you ask me.
Before handing it over, make this deal with Asoka, so we can build the Heroic Epic somewhere.
I can see the reasons rolo gave for leaving the Mongols for now, we just have one slightly annoying issue in one of our Chinese cities. It's suffering from Mongol culture, a contradictio in terminis, if there ever was one.
For the rest I basically built units, including galleys which I thought we needed for shipping a lot of troops to Korea, which proved to be unnecessary. Finished some infra that was queued, nearly only thing I started infra-wise was a university in the cap.
Oh, we got a GG and in my wisdom I used him for a supermedic which was quite useful to quickly recover from the Chengdu campaign. Attached it to a sammurai, as the only other units available at that moment were archers, longbows and catapults neither of which I was sure about whether they could get medic promos and didn't feel like looking it up while playing.
Anyway, I'm sure we'll get truckloads of GGs, so not really an issue, I reckon.
Then Asoka bows his head and says hello, surely foreseeing the fate the mighty Japanese have in store for him. And for the rest of mankind.
The Khmer ask us to join war against the Mongols, but we decline as we are civilized people. We don't declare on third party's demands, we rather bring the message ourselves. And sometimes we even bring the message of peace. At a small price. Gunpowder was too much to ask for, but I thought it worth to get these techs and look for another sparring partner meanwhile.
Then in 1340 we learn engineering. We decide to go for printing press next as 10 years earlier the great scientist Merit Ptah was born and he was duly transformed into partial knowledge of how to mechanically copy stuff. We also get a silly fugitive spy event with the Koreans, which gets us some EP. Actually, we are about to strike the Koreans so who cares about EP.
Korea obviously isn't aware that the real threat doesn't come from the great asian plain, but from overseas. Don't show your capital defended with a mere longbow regiment and a juicy workforce and your other city with 2 of those regiments...
Spoiler :
...if a bloodthirsty madman with a fully loaded navy is waiting within striking distance.
Spoiler :
Can't resist the temptation, so declare and strike amphibiously. For each longbow one samurai perishes, but that's a fair deal, if you ask me.
Before handing it over, make this deal with Asoka, so we can build the Heroic Epic somewhere.
I can see the reasons rolo gave for leaving the Mongols for now, we just have one slightly annoying issue in one of our Chinese cities. It's suffering from Mongol culture, a contradictio in terminis, if there ever was one.
For the rest I basically built units, including galleys which I thought we needed for shipping a lot of troops to Korea, which proved to be unnecessary. Finished some infra that was queued, nearly only thing I started infra-wise was a university in the cap.
Oh, we got a GG and in my wisdom I used him for a supermedic which was quite useful to quickly recover from the Chengdu campaign. Attached it to a sammurai, as the only other units available at that moment were archers, longbows and catapults neither of which I was sure about whether they could get medic promos and didn't feel like looking it up while playing.
Anyway, I'm sure we'll get truckloads of GGs, so not really an issue, I reckon.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Ok it looks like I'm up. I'll get the save now and look at it tomorrow, a fairly heavy cold is making me exhausted, and put up a plan then.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Having looked at the save, I think the next plan for our army is to go after Sury, at the moment it looks like he has only two cities (and as rolo wants the mongols to stew for a bit) and the war will give us brownie points with Chinggis. We have 9 Samurai and 5 catas. With some Longbow builds to cover our backsides that should be more than enough.
As regards tech, I can see noone we know has the power to research liberalism yet, so I'd suggest going for it after PP, in order to try at least to deny the free tech to others, and anyway the Taj is always such a nice build.
I'd suggest popping out 3 Longbows in Changsha, with Hakata and Heiyan-Kyo (after it builds it's uni) popping some additional Samurai and Catas. Every other city would go on a variation of Courthouse>Forge>Lib>Market>Uni, deleting whatever is already built for each city.
The maintenance is painful enough that we should really consider moving our capital to mainland China. My suggestion at the moment would be Changsha, though in the long term Donjiang is probably a better bet.
Edit: The GP will come at the end of my 10 turns so I'll leave him alone, and I'll play the game tomorrow, unless anybody has objections over my plan.
As regards tech, I can see noone we know has the power to research liberalism yet, so I'd suggest going for it after PP, in order to try at least to deny the free tech to others, and anyway the Taj is always such a nice build.
I'd suggest popping out 3 Longbows in Changsha, with Hakata and Heiyan-Kyo (after it builds it's uni) popping some additional Samurai and Catas. Every other city would go on a variation of Courthouse>Forge>Lib>Market>Uni, deleting whatever is already built for each city.
The maintenance is painful enough that we should really consider moving our capital to mainland China. My suggestion at the moment would be Changsha, though in the long term Donjiang is probably a better bet.
Edit: The GP will come at the end of my 10 turns so I'll leave him alone, and I'll play the game tomorrow, unless anybody has objections over my plan.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I like what I see. Good job nocho ( except that ripout... gunpowder would be so much better 
Well, as we didn't really needed Mono, you could had skipped it as well :/ )
Onto next things:
Yes, we need to make either the Palace or the forbidden palace in China. I expect that we don't have enough courthouses to make FP, so it will have to be the palace. The FP can wait for India I agree with Changsha for the place.
Techwise ... after PP, maybe Guilds ? We will run SP most likely in the future ... and maybe we can buy horses from the barbarians in the north ( and there is another reason for letting GK alive ... to let him deal with the barbs. Siberia is a big place with no cities ) . Or Optics ( cue Astro bulb ... half kidding , as I still expect some huts to pop in South America ... atleast the Cuban one should be there ) . Lib would be OK as well. Anyway you should take close of 10 turns to get PP...
Yes on the war on Sury. I think we don't need much buildup for that ... maybe a pike to deal with the visible B. phant ( IIRC they start with 2, so we might see more ) . We obviously will need more garrison troops as well... and some recon to see what we should expect in Khmer and India. Contact with Saladin would be nice as well ( to get more long course trade routes ... until we get him, that is ). India is next in the table, btw.
Well, as we didn't really needed Mono, you could had skipped it as well :/ )Onto next things:
Yes, we need to make either the Palace or the forbidden palace in China. I expect that we don't have enough courthouses to make FP, so it will have to be the palace. The FP can wait for India
I agree with Changsha for the place.Techwise ... after PP, maybe Guilds ? We will run SP most likely in the future ... and maybe we can buy horses from the barbarians in the north ( and there is another reason for letting GK alive ... to let him deal with the barbs. Siberia is a big place with no cities
) . Or Optics ( cue Astro bulb ... half kidding , as I still expect some huts to pop in South America ... atleast the Cuban one should be there ) . Lib would be OK as well. Anyway you should take close of 10 turns to get PP...Yes on the war on Sury. I think we don't need much buildup for that ... maybe a pike to deal with the visible B. phant ( IIRC they start with 2, so we might see more ) . We obviously will need more garrison troops as well... and some recon to see what we should expect in Khmer and India. Contact with Saladin would be nice as well ( to get more long course trade routes ... until we get him, that is ). India is next in the table, btw.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Well I was thinking that if I had time and got a great merchant, I would ship him to Europe for the contacts and extra trade money. At the moment I could build a scout/explorer and send him off.
I can build one Lbow in Changsha and then 2 pikes, and then I could start on the Palace.
And I completely forgot to factor in the gold hemorrhaging we're currently doing @100%, so yeah 10 turns (and the next person's problem what to chose) for PP.
I can build one Lbow in Changsha and then 2 pikes, and then I could start on the Palace.
And I completely forgot to factor in the gold hemorrhaging we're currently doing @100%, so yeah 10 turns (and the next person's problem what to chose) for PP.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I think one pike is enough.
A scout to the west is a good idea. It would be good to check the Khmer and Indian garrisons as well, so I think they would be hammers well spent.
To be honest, that is another reason for Optics. Caravels are normally faster than scouts by foot ...
A scout to the west is a good idea. It would be good to check the Khmer and Indian garrisons as well, so I think they would be hammers well spent.
To be honest, that is another reason for Optics. Caravels are normally faster than scouts by foot ...
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
True about optics, so tech path is Optics>Liberalism?
r_rolo1
King of myself
Maybe. The europeans and Saladin have guilds ( note: SALADIN SHOULD BE THE WORST ENEMY OF HALF EUROPE ), so we will not have many issues in getting Guilds by trade ...
), so we will not have many issues in getting Guilds by trade ...
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
I'll know better this time. Trade exclusively with him yeah?
Spoiler :
r_rolo1
King of myself
Better than kill 'em all is kill 'em all after squeezing some stuff out of them , diplomatically or at gunpoint
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Better than kill 'em all is kill 'em all after squeezing some stuff out of them , diplomatically or at gunpoint
True but no need to respect our "friend's" wishes this game.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Well, my point is that there is no need to antagonize them until our glorious armies can march through their cities. Getting a net -20 modifier on europe is not needed
Nice chat you two were having here. I'd definitely go for Khmer asap and prepare for India. At some point we should have a little task force to permanently say goodbye to the Mountain Qing.
I'd definitely go for Khmer asap and prepare for India. At some point we should have a little task force to permanently say goodbye to the Mountain Qing.
Thy_Spellcraft
King
I totally agree. Go and kill of Sury! And on your way back home don't forget about china!
Techwise I'd agree to brian's first suggestion: Lib after PP at least to prevent the AI getting hands on it. And it has some real good trading value afterwards!
Techwise I'd agree to brian's first suggestion: Lib after PP at least to prevent the AI getting hands on it. And it has some real good trading value afterwards!
