UU&UB or UU&UU elimination thread

America: B17, Minuteman 20
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 20
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 21
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 20
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 18
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 20
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 21
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 19
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 20
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 20
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 12
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 20
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 24
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 20
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 22
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 20

Rome dominates the classical era, period. If Rome wants you gone, you're gone, and they can take on your cities and armies with both UU's.

Polynesia has a big problem here, with a warrior UU and no second UU or UB. A civ that has ONLY ONE UU and NOTHING ELSE that we're judging is just terrible. It's not even like that UU is all that amazing, either.

America: B17, Minuteman 20
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 20
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 21
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 20
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 18
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 20
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 21
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16 (-2) (I thought you had to do -2, so I corrected this one)
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 20
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 20
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 12
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 24
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 20
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 22
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 20

Greece: two unique units and no buildings is an instant turn-off. Even more so when the units are that early in the game and around the same time. After the classic era Greece losses all of its flavour. Rome is spared because the legionairs are actually a fun unit which is more than a few different states and a skin.

Persia: A bank with even more gold and bonus happiness? Yes please!

May I note that you copied my UA elimination post opening . Just saying.

America: B17, Minuteman 20
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 20
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 21
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 18
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 20
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 21
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 20
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 20
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 10
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 24
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 20
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 22
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 20

Korea: Coupled with Korea's UA, they are compatible and work for a defensive science game. Remove the UA, and you have two units that are inferior in some ways to their normal counterparts.

China: I may be biased just coming out of my first game as them, but me gaining my highest score so far with them has to mean something. Going wide with paper makers made me roll in money at the later eras, and the Chu-ko-nus were fantastic and really made siege weapons unnecessary until they became obsolete and the enemy killed all my promoted ones.

America: B17, Minuteman 20
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 20
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 19
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 18
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 21
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 20
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 20
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 10
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 24
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 20
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 22
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 20

+England: lbm are one of the best UU for being a medieval artillery. And the two-ranged gatling guns are crazy. Ship of the Line makes amphibious invasion very interesting and they could dominate the seas for a long time.

-Babylon: bowman are not very good because CBs could get them obsoleted. UB is just useless. I only build walls in less than 3 cities. Who need those extra defense?

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 20
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 19
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 18
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 21
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 20
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 18
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 10
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 24
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 20
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 22
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 20

America: the minutemen are complete butchers even without the +1 sight (though that makes them nearly unbeatable). An can easily pop in and rip enemies to bits, outmanuevering them and dragging them into disadvantageous terrain. With there free movement. The B-17... No comment.
India: war elephant? Slower more expensive and marginally more powerful version of a seldomly used unit. Mughal fort? Unless you have neuschwanstien this building is pointless for most the game, and that wonder comes so late it's still pointless for most the game.

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 20
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 19
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 18
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 21
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 20
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 18
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 10
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 24
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 18
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 22
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Sweden Caroleon's are simply beautiful and Hakkapelitta ain't great but like every unit we do need units to protect the injured plus with the great general great for quick hit and run.

Siam's naresuan's elephant aren't very good they are just horrible and the WAT ain't great either.

P.S I used smilies cause I don't know how to get colour.

fuzzatron717 said:

P.S I used smilies cause I don't know how to get colour.

Click to expand...

[.COLOR="green, red, etc."] insert text here [/COLOR]

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 19
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 18
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 21
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 20
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 18
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 10
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 24
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 17
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 22
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 19
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 16
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 20
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 18
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 10
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 24
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 16
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 22
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

^I corrected your Siam downvote. Please offer some reasons for your upvote and downvote next time.

Ethiopia: The Stele is perhaps my favorite building in the game. Religion synergizes well with cultural victories and this building ensures that you have a religion quickly, usually before anyone else other than the Celts, while giving you the culture you need to pursue a cultural victory, a VC that Ethiopia is ideal to pursue with. The Mehal Sefari comes a little late in the game for my taste, but they are perfectly suited for protecting the capital city of Ethiopia, which, if you're playing small and you should be with Ethiopia, most likely makes up a 1/3 of your empire.

Egypt: For my previous reasons. Just don't think Egypt has much going for it in terms of its UU and UB; UU is gone before you can really use it, plus it replaces a unit that most people don't bother with anyway. The UB just makes a tempting target to enemies looking for some cash. No thanks.

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 19
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 16
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 20
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 18
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 24
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 16
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 23
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21


i'm experiencing a spain love-fest lately, i had not tried it since G&K but in some ways they are even better now. i miss the old ability to conquer cities easily with conquistadors, but this is offset by the new natural wonders and the addition of religion. i dont know whether there is any sort of starting bias built into spain, but i keep landing with a religious natural wonder closeby, giving me the gold to buy a second settler to grab it and work it and get a religion out super early and spread it to everyone before anyone has even generated a pantheon. anyways, this isnt about UA i know, so on the topic of UU's, i still love the conquistador, it might not be able to knock out cities but on the battlefield it's still surprisingly effective, basically the +2 sight provides a very nice advantage in battles and im more inclined to build these knight replacements since they are a UU than i would be to build a generic knight and find having this mobility can be really useful. just as soon as conquistadors lose their steam you have tercios, one of the great units of this game imo, stronger than the unit it replaces and a huge 50% bonus vs mounted, this thing is very solid at holding terrain.

korea - full disclosure, i've never actually played a game as korea, actually only korea and babylon have i never played a game as, something about these two science civs which makes me avoid them, probably the fact that they are always considered amongst the top strongest (read - easiest) to play as.. i prefer a challenge. that being said, it doesn't take a genius to read the stats and having played against sejong enough to know the weaknesses of these units. turtle ships have never been a threat to me in games against sejong and if i were playing korea i woudl sorely miss having access to caravels. hwachas.. give me trebuchets, since i do most of my warmongering in medieval i certainly don't want to be weakened in the siege line on the offense against cities.

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 19
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 16
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 18
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 18
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 25
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 16
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 23
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Rome dominates their era with their UUs. The Roman Legions are very nearly an era ahead of their time and the balistae are just a smudge worse than the trebuchets that will replace them.

Inca have the same problem here as Polynesia. They have one UU and no UB, leaving them needing that single UU to be awesome in comparison to all those other civs that have twice as much. That doesn't happen...one pitiful UU, no second UU, no UB...sounds bad to me.

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 19
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 16
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 18
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 18
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 25
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 17
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 21
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Spain: Don't see the love for Spain. Tercio is better than your average musketman but it is still a somewhat average unit to me. Unless I'm facing Keshiks and Camel Archers I don't want the mounted bonus, certainly not at a higher production cost. I'd rather have a stronger musketman even if it has no promotions that carry over (edit: I know the Tercio is stronger, I mean stronger by more than just 2), or a musketman of the same strength that has one special promotion, like the minuteman. The Conquistador is slightly better but still nothing special. I do value the +2 sight but not enough to justify the two UU's as a whole.

Siam: A building that I am going to build in all my cities anyway that gives +3 ? Yes please. And a mounted unit that has the strength to justify building it in the first place? That's a bingo.

To all the Spain lovers, I say "somewhat average" because, as I said in my last post, with the exception of the Landsknecht (which is only good for getting them out quickly, which I guess is probably helpful to somebody who needs the quick military that early) there are really no unique units in the game I find to be 'average' or unhelpful. I still think the Tercio is strong and the Conquistador as well but when I look at the combinations and take away the UA's I don't see two UU's that are conducive to my style of play. In other words, there is nothing average about them but they definitely fall among the bottom in my book

Edit: Actually now that I think about it not even Landsknecht is an exception for me. That's some mad production saving early on

seancolorado said:

To all the Spain lovers, I say "somewhat average" because, as I said in my last post, with the exception of the Landsknecht (which is only good for getting them out quickly, which I guess is probably helpful to somebody who needs the quick military that early) there are really no unique units in the game I find to be 'average' or unhelpful. I still think the Tercio is strong and the Conquistador as well but when I look at the combinations and take away the UA's I don't see two UU's that are conducive to my style of play. In other words, there is nothing average about them but they definitely fall among the bottom in my book

Edit: Actually now that I think about it not even Landsknecht is an exception for me. That's some mad production saving early on

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It would be nice if Mandekalu cavalry got their city attack bonus returned to them (now that cities are so much stronger) and the conquistador was granted the same bonus. +2 sight on conquistadors is really wonderful though, that vision results in me making so many better decisions in a battle, avoiding losses, setting up traps. But yeah, I don't think the conquistador is an amazing unit by far. The tercio is my favourite musketman UU though, maybe because the AI has a tendency to build loads of lancers/knights/cavalry. It's great having a unit that holds its ground so well. I can think of a lot of units stronger than either of these, keshiks and camel archers for instance, but I am kind of bored of using ranged armies to dominate battlefields, especially hit n run range. There's something more satisfying in breaking through an enemy with a large force of melee, conquistadors, some archers, siege, pikes, later throw in some tercios, basically a nicely balanced historically flavoured army, to me there's just more fun in this than the old hit n run, or the massed composite/xbow approach.

woodshadows said:

It would be nice if Mandekalu cavalry got their city attack bonus returned to them (now that cities are so much stronger) and the conquistador was granted the same bonus. +2 sight on conquistadors is really wonderful though, that vision results in me making so many better decisions in a battle, avoiding losses, setting up traps. But yeah, I don't think the conquistador is an amazing unit by far. The tercio is my favourite musketman UU though, maybe because the AI has a tendency to build loads of lancers/knights/cavalry. It's great having a unit that holds its ground so well. I can think of a lot of units stronger than either of these, keshiks and camel archers for instance, but I am kind of bored of using ranged armies to dominate battlefields, especially hit n run range. There's something more satisfying in breaking through an enemy with a large force of melee, conquistadors, some archers, siege, pikes, later throw in some tercios, basically a nicely balanced historically flavoured army, to me there's just more fun in this than the old hit n run, or the massed composite/xbow approach.

Click to expand...

Do not overlook that conquistadors can settle cities! They are able to claim land faster than AIs. Comparing to settlers, conquistadors have these advantages: pop growth doesn't halt when building, have combat strength, have faster movement, can see farther, while having the same cost as settlers.

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 19
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 16
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 18
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 16
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 25
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 17
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 22
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Still going to upvote Spain because they are so good.

Lordleoz said:

+Spain: Conquistadors are pioneers in colonization. Their extra sight, defensive embarkation and ability to settle cites and city attacking make conquistadors very versatile and powerful. It's extremely fun to use them to conquer other civilizations. Tercios appear in the exact time when you need more soldiers. +50% versus mounted is always useful because lancers are a main treat to ordinary musketmen and AI knights are sometimes annoying. Tercios are solid units and work well with conquistadors. Overall, Spain is a fun civ to play and Spanish game music is great.

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-India: War elephants have higher cost and 1 movement penalty and I generally never build chariot archers but CBs instead. Also, they have a poor upgrade route because they'll lose all promotions. On UB, extra culture is nice but it's a castle UB. If the +2 culture is from other buildings like amphitheaters I will vote it higher. But who wants to build both wall and castle just for 2 culture?

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 19
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 14
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 18
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 16
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 25
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 17
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 21
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 22
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21



Songhai: these work perfectly with my "power projecting culture nation" I like to play as, the mandekalu can snatch up a good set of puppets while my central cities can pump out more social policies.

Egypt: the polar opposite of songhai, this side makes others want to attack me (even more than usual due to my wonders), and gives me a poor unit to defend myself... Wtf?

You know I am suprised that no one voteed up for arabia.

Lordleoz said:

Do not overlook that conquistadors can settle cities! They are able to claim land faster than AIs. Comparing to settlers, conquistadors have these advantages: pop growth doesn't halt when building, have combat strength, have faster movement, can see farther, while having the same cost as settlers.

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havent had a chance to use this yet in G&K, i remember playing once an earth map as spain on vanilla and i tried bringing a couple conquistadors from asia over to south america.. they barely arrived the amount of barb ships around attacking them (shouldnt be as much a problem in G&K now that they are extra buffed up while embarked), by the time i got to south america and built two cities well.. it was post astronomy so relatively late in the game and i ended up with two pretty crappy jungle cities.. didnt really contribute positively to my game maybe theyd be better on archipelago or terra though. or maybe ill get an earth map where north america isnt settled.