[FFH] - Erebus in the Balance

Ilios · Jan 23, 2012

Ichabod said:
*Mahala: Non-Culture Miss -> Play as Doviello with the mission of winning by conquest. We can't ever build a building that gives culture. The only culture enabled is from the palace and some free religion spread (since we can't avoid it). The only religion we can tech/adopt is the ones that don't give culture (CoE or RoK - the culture from the Holy City is fine). Since Mahala hates foreign culture too, we have to raze every city we capture from other civilizations.

This.

I had a discussion with Sareln recently about the Doviello, and we're very interested in finding a way for them to stay competitive if a rush isn't possible/wanted. IE what sort of economic benefit could we give the Doviello (no trait change), to keep them in the running to win a game peacefully.

Compare them with the Clan, who can always fall back on the Warrens to keep them strong economically if a rush fails or isn't possible.

Ichabod · Jan 23, 2012

Besides the "can't settle the golden hammers" thing, from what I recall Beeri has too many Golden Hammers. We have three already settled in our NE city. I captured three more and there's also other cities with settled engeneers too. Maybe some hammers didn't disappear after settled, but they lost the ability of doing it again.

I'll do a proper report about it and I'll let Sareln now.

Mardoc · Jan 23, 2012

Ilios said:
This.

I had a discussion with Sareln recently about the Doviello, and we're very interested in finding a way for them to stay competitive if a rush isn't possible/wanted. IE what sort of economic benefit could we give the Doviello (no trait change), to keep them in the running to win a game peacefully.

Compare them with the Clan, who can always fall back on the Warrens to keep them strong economically if a rush fails or isn't possible.

So...Ichabod proposed them, which suggests he's mostly indifferent. You'd prefer the Doviello one, Gaspar and I prefer the Ethne one. I suppose that means we need Darrell's opinion, and also how strong people's preferences are.

My preference for the Ethne game is weak, although I would like to consider it for game three if it's voted down now. It's true, the Doviello game might help demonstrate the OP-nature of Conquest to the unbelievers :mischief:

Gaspar~ · Jan 23, 2012

Mardoc said:
So...Ichabod proposed them, which suggests he's mostly indifferent. You'd prefer the Doviello one, Gaspar and I prefer the Ethne one. I suppose that means we need Darrell's opinion, and also how strong people's preferences are.

My preference for the Ethne game is weak, although I would like to consider it for game three if it's voted down now. It's true, the Doviello game might help demonstrate the OP-nature of Conquest to the unbelievers

Yeah, now that you mention it, perhaps it'd be better to generate another data point on Conquest. Let's do the Mahala game.

Mardoc · Jan 23, 2012

Gaspar~ said:
Yeah, now that you mention it, perhaps it'd be better to generate another data point on Conquest. Let's do the Mahala game.

Ilios, would you do the honors and roll us some starts?

Ichabod · Jan 23, 2012

Mardoc said:
Ilios, would you do the honors and roll us some starts?

We should decide on some settings.

I think the game will be hard with the variants, so emperor difficulty is probably enough. I like playing in the Erebus Continent map script and I like having more civs than what would be expected for the map size.

I think "No tech brokering" is a good idea and I think we should make a rule of "only X number of techs extorted in each peace deal". Maybe X could be the number of razed cities in that particular war declaration. We could play always war too, but then I'd check the "No tech trading" option, since I'm not in the mood for a unbearable hard game.

What do you guys think?

Ilios · Jan 23, 2012

Ichabod said:
I think the game will be hard with the variants, so emperor difficulty is probably enough.

Increasing difficulty or not? I was going to propose Charadon, but I guess this will be hard enough as it is.

Ichabod said:
I like playing in the Erebus Continent map script

Isn't that really quirky?

Ichabod said:
I think "No tech brokering" is a good idea and I think we should make a rule of "only X number of techs extorted in each peace deal". Maybe X could be the number of razed cities in that particular war declaration.

How about we can extort one technology per civ?

Ichabod said:
We could play always war too, but then I'd check the "No tech trading" option, since I'm not in the mood for a unbearable hard game.

Nah...

[to_xp]Gekko · Jan 23, 2012

you obviously need to make an AAR with this strategy.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=335329

you basically need to combine this: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=329675

with this :lol:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=330270

Mardoc · Jan 23, 2012

Ilios said:
Increasing difficulty or not? I was going to propose Charadon, but I guess this will be hard enough as it is.

I'm inclined to 'no'. A war-based game, without much in the way of an obvious mechanic to give us an advantage over the AI, will be painful as it is.

How about we can extort one technology per civ?

If we're going that small - I'd rather just turn tech trading off.

As for map, I'm pretty much indifferent. I do believe that Erebus Continents would put us in the tundra, but again, balance is much less important when we're playing a SG. I've no particular goals for this one other than abusing Conquest.

Mardoc · Jan 23, 2012

[to_xp]Gekko;11210722 said:
you obviously need to make an AAR with this strategy.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=335329

That seems painful to do, technically. There'd be a lot of fussing with save games and whatnot.

[to_xp]Gekko · Jan 23, 2012

you can use limited flavour if you're worried about getting tundra with the Doviello ( full flavour WILL handicap you )

Ichabod · Jan 23, 2012

Just to show to anyone still wondering that the game might not be won:

Spoiler :

And that's before Guild of Hammers (would be built at the EoT).

Our army:

Spoiler :

And increasing each turn.

By the way, I counted 8 settled engineers on ex-Beeri cities. Plus three not-settled golden hammers (the unsettleable ones). And I don't think Beeri ever had more then 6 cities. So that is definetely something weird going on.

Save attached if you want to take a look.

NobleHelium · Jan 23, 2012

Tell Sareln about that...

Selrahc · Jan 24, 2012

Gaspar~ said:
I have no idea if this is one of those multi-part events, though on the surface it looks like a terrible trade. Naturally, I took it based on the vague possibility it might help later.

That event is a doozy, with something of a history in FFH. If you buy and smash the Orb, the option that looks like it offers the least reward costing you money and merely slightly lowering the AC counter. However, if you smash the orb the spirit within it gives you a free technology! :crazyeye:

A patch a while ago briefly made this event a certainty to turn up in every game, which is how I had the opportunity to experiment with taking the "crap" option.

It's kind of a horrible event to spring on somebody who doesn't know about it. You have to take the option that looks like it gives you the least reward to get the best reward. Like some kind of morality play.

EDIT:

Edit:

Mardoc said:
Actually, on further thought, I'm fine with declaring victory here and moving on. I don't really want to move 30 firebows and hit 'summon fireball' 30 times each turn when I already know the final result.

You... you know that you can use CTRL or ALT to select large numbers of units at once, right? If your units are in a death stack, they're easy to move around.

Ichabod · Jan 24, 2012

By the way, is that Minister Koun smashed between the Ljosalfar and the Bannor? I just realized the different color there (and that'd explain the rival worst demographics - and the fact that we are 7th place in one of the demographics).

Should we start the new game, then? Any objections? I can roll some starts, but I'll be away from my gaming computer until tomorrow.

Mardoc · Jan 24, 2012

Selrahc said:
You... you know that you can use CTRL or ALT to select large numbers of units at once, right? If your units are in a death stack, they're easy to move around.

Um...I have theoretical knowledge of that which you speak of, but I've never been able to get it to work the way I intend - I do things like cast Haste on a stack with half its members, or cast a Fireball with the only mage capable of Hasting the stack. I find myself less likely to yell at my computer if I do it the slow way.

Ichabod said:
Should we start the new game, then? Any objections? I can roll some starts, but I'll be away from my gaming computer until tomorrow.

Fine by me. The only thing is...do we have consensus? I don't know that we ever agreed on the map script, or the difficulty, or the tech trading/extortion rules. Darrell's post suggests that he's abstaining from the discussion, but that still leaves a lot of options barely discussed.

For the record, I'm agnostic on map script, prefer a non-diety/non-increasing difficulty, and no tech trading. But I'm not really sure where you, Ilios, and Gaspar stand.

darrelljs · Jan 24, 2012

Mardoc said:
Darrell's post suggests that he's abstaining from the discussion

If I am needed to break a tie, I vote !Ilios :mischief:

.

Darrell

Gaspar~ · Jan 25, 2012

Mardoc said:
For the record, I'm agnostic on map script, prefer a non-diety/non-increasing difficulty, and no tech trading. But I'm not really sure where you, Ilios, and Gaspar stand.

Prefer something not Erebus Continent and big/stuffed for map script - maybe just a big Pangaea? I'm okay with Deity/Increasing difficulty - the variant is hard but an SG usually means you play a couple difficulty levels above your skill level anyway. And yeah, let's just turn tech trading off. Otherwise dial up the randomness - all features, Living World, etc.

I'm not especially vehement about any of this stuff, if someone feels particularly strongly on one issue or another I'm happy to go with the flow.

Ilios · Jan 25, 2012

Gaspar~ said:
Prefer something not Erebus Continent and big/stuffed for map script - maybe just a big Pangaea? I'm okay with Deity/Increasing difficulty - the variant is hard but an SG usually means you play a couple difficulty levels above your skill level anyway. And yeah, let's just turn tech trading off. Otherwise dial up the randomness - all features, Living World, etc.

I'm not especially vehement about any of this stuff, if someone feels particularly strongly on one issue or another I'm happy to go with the flow.

+1

Let's just get this thing started.

Ichabod · Jan 25, 2012

So, how about:

Mahala game.

Large Pangea with 12 opponents.

Difficulty Emperor. The variant is very hard. We can't build culture ever. That's enough of a handicap. If you guys prefer Immortal, I'm fine with it too.

Living World, no tech trade, all unique features.

[FFH] - Erebus in the Balance

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