If an enemy civ has founded a pantheon is it a waste to spread your religion to them?
- Thread starter Artifex1
- Start date
Short answer: it depends.
Short but useful answer: it depends on if your religion benefits from believers in other civs.
Medium length answer: it depends on if you gain anything from believers in other civs. Whether it's worth doing or not at that time will depend on how late they are to the religion game. If you suspect they'll have their own religion soon and yours will get pushed out, it's probably not worth it. If you're quite fast at religion and they're very late, you cAn almost ignore the pantheon.
Long answer: too complex to type on phone. Factors include relative times of founding, what's in it for you, third parties, city placements, and diplomacy.
Short but useful answer: it depends on if your religion benefits from believers in other civs.
Medium length answer: it depends on if you gain anything from believers in other civs. Whether it's worth doing or not at that time will depend on how late they are to the religion game. If you suspect they'll have their own religion soon and yours will get pushed out, it's probably not worth it. If you're quite fast at religion and they're very late, you cAn almost ignore the pantheon.
Long answer: too complex to type on phone. Factors include relative times of founding, what's in it for you, third parties, city placements, and diplomacy.
Artifex1
Warlord
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They got their pantheon before turn 100..not sure exact turn though..if that helps.
Memoryjar
Emperor
Which difficult level ?
Well, it does also depend on how many religions can still be founded. If there's only 1 left, give it a shot, you might be lucky and another one might get the pantheon. Check out their pantheon too, if it's a faith-giving one, you probably don't want to bother until all religions are founded.
If it's Celts, Maya or Ethiopia, don't bother at all.
If it's Celts, Maya or Ethiopia, don't bother at all.
Immortal. Its always worth a try exporting a religion to a neighbor who hasn't yet founded one, and if he still does, you can send your missionaries elsewhere or try to convert him or his surroundings anyway, if you dont mind the diplo-hit.
Magma_Dragoon
Reploid
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Pantheon followers are easier to convert than atheists, so you are better off converting nearby cities to pressure them. That way to win regardless of what that player does. And ofc, it's a waste to spread to the capital of someone you expect will found a religion soon.
Unless you have faith to burn: It's always a waste to use Missionaries / Great Prophets to spread your religion outside your territory. (Unless you get a one time bonus that turn such as a city state request or the Initiation Rites belief)
The other AIs will ruthlessly spam Great Prophets to attempt to convert them.
In fact you'll need to build a few Inquisitors yourself just to keep your own religion safe from the AIs Great Prophets within your own territory.
As to the mechanics:
1. Pantheon followers have no affect on Missionaries (unlike major religion followers), but this isn't based on majority status but instead on number of followers.
A size 7 city showing a pantheon could still be tough for a Missionary to convert if 3 of the 7 citizens are following major religions but none of them are yours
2. Pantheon followers get wiped out by Great Prophets just like major religion followers.
3. If the Pantheon is later promoted to a major religion, the holy city will instantly become majority of the new religion and will have massive internal pressure.
tide15
Warlord
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one time I had five cities in a remote area far enough away from other civs and myself so they stayed atheist for a very long time. I finally sent a GP to bring them into the religion and also I had the one hundred gold initiation enhancement. It took the GP two tries before he was able to turn the largest city.
danaphanous
religious fanatic
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Interesting, I'd found both pantheon and atheist cities to be the same difficulty in conversion: aka very easy to convert. And a GP always successfully spread religion. The only time I've had him not is if there was another religion already present as a minority. This seems to slow it down considerably, especially if they have a evangelism-resistant belief.
Magma_Dragoon
Reploid
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Atheism pressure builds up over time, but it is invisible. Early game you won't notice the effects of atheism pressure. But if you happened to find a total isolation civ or city state mid game, missionaries will have trouble converting godless cities, but pantheon cities will be much more willing to convert to a religion. Pretty sure this is how it works. I have reviewed the code for follower conversion, but atheism wasn't really what I was focused on. So it might be a spread bonus for just the religion with that that pantheon, but I didn't see a such a check.
Wodan
Deity
"Always" clearly isn't a good word to use. When we add up things like the "Just War" enhance belief, the ones you list, and others, we'll end up with a list of exceptions.
But I agree in principle that if you're simply spreading your religion to get something like Tithe benefit, you can expect it to be re-converted in the next 10-20 turns.
phillipwyllie
Wannabe Deity
I always missionary spam up until the renaissance era, your founder belief will usually support spreading your religion(tithe for example). Any great prophets you spawn before you reach the industrial era can be used to counteract some of the AI converting keeping a nice religious buffer zone between you and them. Whilst they are missionary spamming you are building up faith to use on other great people......
Wodan
Deity
I had bad luck with indiscriminate missionary spam... when you run up against one of the AIs who go whole hog at it, you simply can't keep up, and it's a losing proposition if you have 2 of them.... UNTIL, that is, I discovered the trick that paying someone to go to war against the spammer AI is a great way to ensure your religion reigns supreme. 
reddishrecue
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It could depend yes because pantheons get deleted when a religion is in the way sometimes. As for the religion that you're planning to spread, you can be careful because the other civilization could take advantage of your religious attributes.
The AI doesn't care if someone has spread their religion or not; they'll send their Great Phophets to convert it either way.
In fact multiple AIs will be doing this; so you'd be fighting multiple civs Great Prophets).
Meanwhile another AI will notice the lack of Inquistors in your territory and send Great Prophets to your home territory while your fighting the other ones for religious supremacy in someone elses land.
Yes, you're right. But if you convert another civ first, you have advantage in "convert battle"
reddishrecue
Some dude on civfans
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Yes, yoyou're right. But if you convert another civ first, you have advantage in "convert battle"
There is no convert battle when you're only worried about yourself.
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