I think it always worked like that in RtW, ships bombard damage only one unit. Also notice you don't get any message saying how many other units are doing damages.
The Road to War - Ultimate Edition!
- Thread starter Dale
- Start date
I've been tweaking with personalities in LeaderHeads and it's making diplomacy much better. Still very much a work in progress, but I'm trying to make leaders behave more believably. You can see if it helps (I've attached it in .txt format).
Chamboozer
Warlord
There should be a way to change the "Our trade relations have been fair and forthright" max from +4 to +8, so gifts of money will actually help you have good relations.
1936 Europe map - Germany refuses to conquer the Polish city of Krakow. I can't believe Dale left the mod with all these serious glitches in. Think I am going to have to reinstall BTS to play the retail version, which will probably have a more competent AI.
Sure you should do, that will avoid you to speak of something you don't know and will avoid you to compare this version with another version... your never played.
Dale
Mohawk Games Developer
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2002
- Messages
- 7,601
Sorry to hear your disappointment. Bye.
The Ultimate Edition 1.1 is the best version from far and it makes look Desert War a little poor in comparison and makes look a bit like draft the other versions of RtW.
In UE 1.1, still not that many game played and only Europe 1939 but I totally enjoyed:
- The new tuning of units (even if for very few units I would hope some shift).
- That now all countries use all units and it's interesting to quote (not always to explain) how most country has its own preferences of unit production and usage.
- That most countries now behave much better than in previous versions. For some country like Canada I need wait a long time before see them enter in action but now more countries participate and bring some action. In Europe 39 there's mainly British and Norway that are a bit out of the play, for British it's ok in North Africa plus some navy action but in general it is a bit disappointing. The best improvement when compared to older version is USA with much more presence and Italy with a play that seems much more diversified (and aggressive).
- How the action is more intense with some diversity and less predictable than in some of the older versions.
- The new behavior of Air combat with more tactic involvement but less building destruction. And important, it's not easy any more to defeat the AI in that domain, depending of the country you play.
- I even enjoyed the new culture system despite the lost of the culture cursor to manage happiness. The new Culture system is simple but works very well and match quite well the mod context.
- I enjoyed the little tune down of spying, still here but a bit less harassing and that is cool (I could be wrong on this point, it's just a feeling I got).
- The AI even if it's not perfect but it can't. For sure the AI isn't a match for any human player and doesn't play like a human player, but how many strategic game achieve that? None but some classical game like Chess with decades of studies of its programming and centuries of experience and analyze of the game. Yes I also see sometimes the AI becomes an idiot, woo perfect simulation of humans!! Quote that the standard AI in the standard game also know very well to be a total idiot too.
- The AI is what it is with good and bad but importantly it has some good point and can surprise you many time in a game. A good comparison point is Desert War played in Vanilla, it is quite predictive for each country on many points of their strategy and tactics.
In UE 1.1, still not that many game played and only Europe 1939 but I totally enjoyed:
- The new tuning of units (even if for very few units I would hope some shift).
- That now all countries use all units and it's interesting to quote (not always to explain) how most country has its own preferences of unit production and usage.
- That most countries now behave much better than in previous versions. For some country like Canada I need wait a long time before see them enter in action but now more countries participate and bring some action. In Europe 39 there's mainly British and Norway that are a bit out of the play, for British it's ok in North Africa plus some navy action but in general it is a bit disappointing. The best improvement when compared to older version is USA with much more presence and Italy with a play that seems much more diversified (and aggressive).
- How the action is more intense with some diversity and less predictable than in some of the older versions.
- The new behavior of Air combat with more tactic involvement but less building destruction. And important, it's not easy any more to defeat the AI in that domain, depending of the country you play.
- I even enjoyed the new culture system despite the lost of the culture cursor to manage happiness. The new Culture system is simple but works very well and match quite well the mod context.
- I enjoyed the little tune down of spying, still here but a bit less harassing and that is cool (I could be wrong on this point, it's just a feeling I got).
- The AI even if it's not perfect but it can't. For sure the AI isn't a match for any human player and doesn't play like a human player, but how many strategic game achieve that? None but some classical game like Chess with decades of studies of its programming and centuries of experience and analyze of the game. Yes I also see sometimes the AI becomes an idiot, woo perfect simulation of humans!! Quote that the standard AI in the standard game also know very well to be a total idiot too.
- The AI is what it is with good and bad but importantly it has some good point and can surprise you many time in a game. A good comparison point is Desert War played in Vanilla, it is quite predictive for each country on many points of their strategy and tactics.
Quite wrong, I first played RTW last year when BTS was released. UE 1.1 is the first and only edition where the German AI refuses to take Poland, in all previous versions it did so within a few turns. Now the Soviet Union gets almost everything or else Poland survives for several years. Sorry but you can't release an untested version and call it ultimate. Very sad and sloppy end to the mod. But I see only a few hundred people have downloaded it.
Dale
Mohawk Games Developer
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2002
- Messages
- 7,601
Then you only have yourself to blame. Untill last week, you did not participate in the testing process, which had been under way since the release of BtS 3.17. So it's YOUR fault UE 1.1 sucks.
But I see only a few hundred people have downloaded it.
And again, you are sooooooooooo wrong. CFC is only a small portion of total RtW traffic.
ROFL! Can't blame you, Dale. Either way, this is a stupendous platform for mod-modding...I'm having fun
Sure that's an evidence, without the brilliant mind of Horizons and better his amazing testing and sense of analyse you wasn't able to produce anything good.Then you only have yourself to blame. Untill last week, you did not participate in the testing process, which had been under way since the release of BtS 3.17. So it's YOUR fault UE 1.1 sucks.
Mmm not kind but I couldn't resist for the sarcasm!
Lot of things impressive in this new version but of course I'm only going to point out the concerns.
Playing a game as USA, 1936 global assault map, historical mode, I notice that after Japan DOW China, it sends an army of 20+ units into Chinese territory. Artillery, infantry, tanks, etc. They stand there. One tile into Chinese territory. And they stand there. And stay there. More than 40 turns go by, they are still there. I believe it's not until mid-1940 before Japan starts taking down the Chinese and eventually that army moves. I'm not sure if it's confused by the China team or if there is some AI tactic where it likes to have a stack sit and wait for the opposition to go after them to use the combined arms stuff, utilizing the artillery in defense.
In some ways, that makes sense. But a lot of time goes by with nothing much happening in the war between Japan and China.
Playing a game as USA, 1936 global assault map, historical mode, I notice that after Japan DOW China, it sends an army of 20+ units into Chinese territory. Artillery, infantry, tanks, etc. They stand there. One tile into Chinese territory. And they stand there. And stay there. More than 40 turns go by, they are still there. I believe it's not until mid-1940 before Japan starts taking down the Chinese and eventually that army moves. I'm not sure if it's confused by the China team or if there is some AI tactic where it likes to have a stack sit and wait for the opposition to go after them to use the combined arms stuff, utilizing the artillery in defense.
In some ways, that makes sense. But a lot of time goes by with nothing much happening in the war between Japan and China.
iv noticed the same thing, but the game is overall better then the other versions in my opinion(obviously not in Horizons though)
September is drawing closer, and as so the release of Colonization
Gotta play as much as I can before I get hooked on Dale's mods for that game
Weird the Japan tactic was almost fine, at this point Japan had only to pillage everything until China attack or will be down.
I've been tinkering with LeaderHeadInfos, trying to stop small nations from suiciding, and trying to get the stupid AI to make it to at least 1938-ish before launching into premature war in the 1936 global scenario, open play. There's a promising section in LeaderHeadInfos, "<NoWarAttitudeProbs>" and it lists attitudes (from annoyed to friendly) and the probability (so it seems?) that the leader will resist the mad urge to randomly go to war if he has that attitude. I assumed this was what it meant, cause Friendly had 100, Pleased generally something else high, on down to Annoyed at the lowest. So I did lots of tweaking, making it so democratic leaders had 100% probability of not going to war if they're Pleased with you, and other stuff to try to get the various leaders to behave believably. But it's not working. Like clockwork, right around June-July 36, even democratic nations (always the same ones - Poland, Romania, Yugoslavia, sometimes with some others) go to war with nations they're pleased with! Any thoughts?
I've been tinkering with LeaderHeadInfos, trying to stop small nations from suiciding, and trying to get the stupid AI to make it to at least 1938-ish before launching into premature war in the 1936 global scenario, open play. There's a promising section in LeaderHeadInfos, "<NoWarAttitudeProbs>" and it lists attitudes (from annoyed to friendly) and the probability (so it seems?) that the leader will resist the mad urge to randomly go to war if he has that attitude. I assumed this was what it meant, cause Friendly had 100, Pleased generally something else high, on down to Annoyed at the lowest. So I did lots of tweaking, making it so democratic leaders had 100% probability of not going to war if they're Pleased with you, and other stuff to try to get the various leaders to behave believably. But it's not working. Like clockwork, right around June-July 36, even democratic nations (always the same ones - Poland, Romania, Yugoslavia, sometimes with some others) go to war with nations they're pleased with! Any thoughts?
There isn't only weird things that happens to illustrate possible point of improve, some weird things happen sometimes and they give the feeling the AI is smartest than it is probably.
I was playing French, Italy had hidden its whole ship fleet in Venice and had a powerful control of the Mediterranean sky. Why they hidden it here I'm not sure. I just win the few first ship battle in this area, not sure what British did. I suspect it was to avoid being attacked by UK submarines everywhere and to avoid be in a port suddenly taken by enemy. Anyway that not the point.
When USA enter in war I looked with care their transport use. After a short while 3 transport full of troops was send to Europe followed by another the next turn and another the turn after. Fine and all arrived in the Mediterranean area.
Few after USA send two more transports and then suddenly Italy move their ship fleet to harbor them in Sicily and Sardinia. I noticed it and found it weird but why not, in fact I understand the move few after.
USA new transports was going to Mediterranean sea and I worry about Italian ships. I moved few ships to try help USA transports but in vain, that stupid USA AI moved transport right into middle of the sea and Italian avoid my few ships and sink all transports full of troops with few planes and plenty ships. So AI Italy had move their ship fleet to interrupt USA transport flow? Unbelievable!
And why AI USA didn't moved transports from harbor to harbor? The Italian move stop a little USA transport flow but I had taken opportunity to destroy more of Italian ships by counter attack after they destroyed transports.
After some time USA transport flow start again and this time 3 transport was coming to Europe. Two transports lead to North and avoid Mediterranean sea, is that was to avoid Italian fleet there? Lol, too nice to be true but so funny to quote.
The third transport lead to Mediterranean and guess what? Did exactly what I complained they haven't done, move transports from harbor to harbor.
Again, that was too nice to be true. In fact if eventually previous events was really nice steps from AI, for this last one it was more hazard but very funny to quote the whole story.
I was playing French, Italy had hidden its whole ship fleet in Venice and had a powerful control of the Mediterranean sky. Why they hidden it here I'm not sure. I just win the few first ship battle in this area, not sure what British did. I suspect it was to avoid being attacked by UK submarines everywhere and to avoid be in a port suddenly taken by enemy. Anyway that not the point.
When USA enter in war I looked with care their transport use. After a short while 3 transport full of troops was send to Europe followed by another the next turn and another the turn after. Fine and all arrived in the Mediterranean area.
Few after USA send two more transports and then suddenly Italy move their ship fleet to harbor them in Sicily and Sardinia. I noticed it and found it weird but why not, in fact I understand the move few after.
USA new transports was going to Mediterranean sea and I worry about Italian ships. I moved few ships to try help USA transports but in vain, that stupid USA AI moved transport right into middle of the sea and Italian avoid my few ships and sink all transports full of troops with few planes and plenty ships. So AI Italy had move their ship fleet to interrupt USA transport flow? Unbelievable!
And why AI USA didn't moved transports from harbor to harbor? The Italian move stop a little USA transport flow but I had taken opportunity to destroy more of Italian ships by counter attack after they destroyed transports.
After some time USA transport flow start again and this time 3 transport was coming to Europe. Two transports lead to North and avoid Mediterranean sea, is that was to avoid Italian fleet there? Lol, too nice to be true but so funny to quote.
The third transport lead to Mediterranean and guess what? Did exactly what I complained they haven't done, move transports from harbor to harbor.
Again, that was too nice to be true. In fact if eventually previous events was really nice steps from AI, for this last one it was more hazard but very funny to quote the whole story.
So lacking of patience?
We post at same time and it took a while for the site to answer!About your problems with AI suicide in open maps, I have no skill for mod making and cannot help. But as a player I know (and you certainly know it too) that there are two major things that involve enter in war:
- Same religion or not, in this case it's same ideology or not.
- Culture threatening. Have you check that everything was as good it can for that point?
