Jon Shafer leaves Firaxis!

attackfighter · Dec 21, 2010

Here is what I think happened: Jon knew his game needed more time to be worked on, but other people on Firaxis (probably marketing) pushed the game out anyways, despite his protests. So now there is a fairly unpolished game and Jon was disgruntled because he's taking the blame even though it wasn't really his fault, so he quit in anger.

Horizons · Dec 21, 2010

Soren quit before BTS was released, don't forget

PS I also think this heralds the end of Civ5 ... which will be remembered as the 'Windows Vista' of the series ... expect a 'Windows 7'-style improved Civ6 within a year or two.

jpinard · Dec 21, 2010

I think it's fairly obvious this is why the last patch took so long and we didn't have interim fixes. They knew he was moving on and needed to get as much done as they could while he was still on-board.

Designing these types of games has got to be extremely stressful, so maybe we'll find out he's going to work for another company like Zynga for a change of pace.

lschnarch · Dec 21, 2010

ricardojahns said:
not that I want to brag or anything, but hell I was on spot!!!

The signs were already at the wall (October, 11th):

lschnarch said:
To me that last statement sounds very much like "Oh oh... things aren't going exactly well for me. But as long as I am still allowed, I will try to clean the mess"

Anyway, he is gone and history now.
This is a chance that the franchise may come back to Civilization games.

Louis XXIV · Dec 21, 2010

SHaW1986 said:
all i can say is... PLEASE SID COME BACK AND RIGHT THIS SHIP, IVE SPENT TOO MUCH MONEY AND TIME FOR IT JUST TO END HERE! IF SALES ARE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTER THAN IMAGINE IF SID MEIER CAME BACK TO WORK ON THE GAME HE STARTED. IF GAMEPLAY IS WHAT MATTERS, SAME DEAL, SIDS ONE OF THE GREATEST GAME DESIGNERS WEVE HAD, AND I WANT HIM TO FINISH WHAT JON SHAFER STARTED.

What's the last good game that Sid Meier made? I don't recall Civ Rev getting a great reception here.

da_Vinci · Dec 21, 2010

bryanw1995 said:
no, the problem was more that it was such a radical design change from that which was expected/hoped for that the critics have been very vocal about it. actual sales figures look to be in line with previous civ iterations, though 2k might have anticipated that they would be higher.

el_hidalgo said:
Bottom line: can the guy make games that sell, and the answer appears to be "yes." Although, to be fair, perhaps it's true that, as long as it was called "CiV," anything they released would have sold well.

Who knows why he left, but I don't see any compelling reasons to suggest that he was fired or pushed out because of the "failure" of CiV.

Maybe the failure of Civ V is not in the actual sales (although did it meet the infamous "projections"?), but in a failure to retain the goodwill of the fanbase and the presumptive supremacy of the franchise? The high marks in initial reviews were in part reputational, and even before the first game was played, Civ V was probably expected to be a contender for game of the year (presumptive supremacy).

If that presumptive supremacy has evaporated as a result of Civ V, that is a serious business loss. Who will pre-order Civ VI? Who will buy it before a playable demo is released? Civ VI enters the "fool me twice, shame on me" realm. Not the position any business covets for its product.

Elhoim said:
Well, considering that Sid was the lead designer of Civ:Rev, he should immolate himself first...

It's funny to read all these comments about "Save us Sid!" when he is the one furthering the decline of Civilization by leading Civ:Rev and Civ for Facebook, the most "casual" versions of Civilization ever.

I don't see a problem with casual versions of Civ that are separate from the "hard core strategy" version of Civ. So I have no problem with Rev or Facebook Civ.

ricardojahns said:
not that I want to brag or anything, but hell I was on spot!!!

Quoting myself: (posted December 7)

Whole thread here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9984542&postcount=63

Man, I should sell "futuristic services"...

Except that the sun is shining today (at least where I am ... ) :lol:

Actually, the Shafer departure must be due to the first lunar eclipse on the winter solstice since 1638!

dV

elthrasher · Dec 21, 2010

Horizons said:
PS I also think this heralds the end of Civ5 ... which will be remembered as the 'Windows Vista' of the series ... expect a 'Windows 7'-style improved Civ6 within a year or two.

If Civ6 comes out in a year, I think those who felt Civ5 was shallow and unfinished will need thesauri to differentiate the two games.

fantsu · Dec 21, 2010

I hope this is the last Civ game for PC.
You don't even know how much downhill things can go with videogame sequels.
CiV will leave at least some dignity to the series.

lschnarch · Dec 21, 2010

da_Vinci said:
If that presumptive supremacy has evaporated as a result of Civ V, that is a serious business loss. Who will pre-order Civ VI? Who will buy it before a playable demo is released? Civ VI enters the "fool me twice, shame on me" realm. Not the position any business covets for its product.

Very true.
Trust and confidence into Firaxis have been ruined, may it have been partially 2K's fault due to early release or solely Mr. Shafer's "vision".

bryanw1995 · Dec 21, 2010

Louis XXIV said:
What's the last good game that Sid Meier made? I don't recall Civ Rev getting a great reception here.

it's funny, I played cIV for literally years including expansions but had mostly put it down other than the occasional game of final frontier until civ rev came out for my iphone. rev isn't that great but for a phone it is awesome. I spend 2/3 + of my waking life at work but have quite a bit of down time. I can't play "video games" per se, so something light on a phone was perfect. I suspect that the FB civ will be similar. both of those "light" versions will make people aware enough of the franchise that they will at least consider other civ offerings. ciV has tried too hard to cater to the hardcore civfanatics (tm) AND the civrev/FB crowd. I suspect that in the future they'll still have those light versions but keep the main pc civ game complicated enough to keep the loyal fan base happy.

Rohili · Dec 21, 2010

I doubt Shafer leaving has anything to do with Civ V's quality. As others have pointed out, Soren Johnson also left Firaxis after finishing his work on Civ IV.

It seems like a typical business decision to me - once the game is released and major patches are done, why continue paying the lead designer? You don't need him any more, so just let him go. Fresh blood will be brought in to handle future expansions and sequels - that has always been the modus operandi of Firaxis with respect to the Civ games.

So, I think you guys are reading way too much into this.

Dale · Dec 21, 2010

da_Vinci said:
Maybe the failure of Civ V is not in the actual sales (although did it meet the infamous "projections"?)

According to T2's recent financials, Civ5 has just hit the million sale mark.

Factor in DLC and the inflated special editions, 2K Games has probably netted around $30 million USD in revenue.

For this type of game, 1 million sales is exceptional. Yes, they would've hit the projections.

el_hidalgo · Dec 21, 2010

da_Vinci said:
Maybe the failure of Civ V is not in the actual sales (although did it meet the infamous "projections"?), but in a failure to retain the goodwill of the fanbase and the presumptive supremacy of the franchise? The high marks in initial reviews were in part reputational, and even before the first game was played, Civ V was probably expected to be a contender for game of the year (presumptive supremacy).

If that presumptive supremacy has evaporated as a result of Civ V, that is a serious business loss. Who will pre-order Civ VI? Who will buy it before a playable demo is released? Civ VI enters the "fool me twice, shame on me" realm. Not the position any business covets for its product.

I don't see a problem with casual versions of Civ that are separate from the "hard core strategy" version of Civ. So I have no problem with Rev or Facebook Civ.

Except that the sun is shining today (at least where I am ... )

Actually, the Shafer departure must be due to the first lunar eclipse on the winter solstice since 1638!

dV

Could not the same have been said of III? I'm not sure what the general critics' consensus on it was, or whether it met sales expectations, but I could never really get into it--though I did buy it and all the expansions. Still, Civ retained enough allure that I immediately bought IV when it came out. And even though I loved IV (and still do) I didn't buy V right away (and now I'm glad I didn't).

Also, I wonder if maybe they don't really care about the fan base (i.e., us). Maybe CiV is the result of a deliberate strategy was to pursue casual/console players, who are of course a much larger market than us. Maybe they are not as concerned with our goodwill as the goodwill of CivRev players who might also buy the PC version. Obviously they would never tell us that we're not numerically big enough to matter to them, but maybe that's the case. If you're a businessman and you don't care about anything but your ROI, then that's the way to go, right? I'm sure the developers care, but I doubt Take2 does, and they sign the checks.

I do agree about the eclipse, though. :goodjob:

Surgeon · Dec 21, 2010

Just putting it out there.... he might have quit for more money somewhere else. Hes a lead designer now, quite a resource, even if he did work on a "terrible aboniation wurzt game evar!" million+ selling game.

Hormagaunt · Dec 21, 2010

The next few weeks will tell the tale. If we get more DLC, then the game's dead. If the next major patch doesn't bring in hotseat and a vastly improved multiplayer then again, the game's dead.

With this development, whether he jumped or was pushed, I'm betting the game's dead.

Me, I'm hoping for Civ6 inside 2 years. They can (I think) make a good Civ6 fairly quickly by combining some of the aspects of Civ5, some of Civ4, and some of the stuff people here and at 2K have been positing.

I'll not preorder it, but if first impressions of others (NOT game reviewers) is good then I'll buy it fairly quickly.

bonafide11 · Dec 21, 2010

I think you're all overreacting. The game will go on with or without Shafer.

By the way, anyone think about asking him on Twitter?

http://twitter.com/_jon_shafer_

Edit: I tweeted him and asked him what happened. Doubt I'll get a response though.

markantony · Dec 21, 2010

Dale said:
According to T2's recent financials, Civ5 has just hit the million sale mark.

Factor in DLC and the inflated special editions, 2K Games has probably netted around $30 million USD in revenue.

For this type of game, 1 million sales is exceptional. Yes, they would've hit the projections.

Civ 4 sold 3.5m, not including expansions.

player1 fanatic · Dec 21, 2010

^but after how many time?

croxis · Dec 21, 2010

All in 3 months? I don't think so.

Guardian_PL · Dec 21, 2010

player1 fanatic said:
^but after how many time?

That's kind of irrelevant, considering that Civ5 sales are made directly from the success of Civ4.

The important bit - "not including expansions"

Jon Shafer leaves Firaxis!

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