DMOC
Mathematician
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
- Messages
- 5,594
Just curious, but why do wonders count for score in the no score mod?
Global Highland Challenge Pitboss
- Thread starter Geronimo20
- Start date
Just curious, but why do wonders count for score in the no score mod?
Elkad
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 1,057
Because something has to count, or the game breaks. Ideally that would just be 1pt for your palace, but your palace turns out to be a wonder.
Wonders is the thing that changes the least often (and is visible anyway once you meet people)
Reloads. The one-per-player rule wouldn't apply for reloads needed for administrative or rules-violation reasons. It's only for that horrible misclick where you switch to the wrong civics, or accidentally declare war on your friend and sink his ships full of troops. Ideally most of us won't even use it. A misclick should make you say "uh, is that so bad it's worth using my only reload, or can I recover". I've used 2 reloads in about 20 games.
NoScore. Sorry, I wasn't clear above. At TG there are 2 different custom mods being used for pitboss games. One is NoScore, which is also in use in several other games, and proposed here. The other was designed for a no-trading game. That other mod has a pretty big modifier to the Known_Civ bonus to research, to help people come from behind.
Edit again. NoScore. On Diety (and only Diety), tech costs are increased by another 50% (to 200% of Noble). Yes, that makes techs very slow. Dropping to Immortal would go back to regular Immortal costs. Or we could deal with the slow techs, which just makes more time for warring or building. Which is fine with me.
Dreylin
Cousin Itt!
@Elkad, the version we were using over at TG had custom tech costs associated with Deity difficulty, correct? iirc, they were 3x the normal Deity cost and I would prefer not to use those again. Maybe if we just played on Immortal?
Ok, I understand where you're coming from (the bold part). I don't intend to cry for reloads all the time but it's nice to know that it's negotiable.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
I would play except for the fact that it a global highlands game. Outside of Arboreal, it is the worst map script. I have played in two such games and both time the team that has gone onto win has been the one with the best lands and that is at a premium. In one game I was in a small area really only fit for one or two nations that was landlocked by a mountain. If there is a change of map script then I will play.
Munro
Deity
The NoScore mod does increase tech costs from 130% of Noble (for a standard deity game) to 200% of Noble.
Yes - merging and / or tweaking the mods should be straightforward. We can get the behaviour we want just by modifying a couple of .xml values in the Mod.
E.g. to change the NoScore Deity tech costs from 200% back to 130%, all we need to do is edit the following line in CIV4HandicapInfo.xml from 200 back to 130 (or whatever we want).
<iResearchPercent>200</iResearchPercent>
To increase the 'known civs with this tech' research bonus, we just have to change the following value in GlobalDefines.xml from 30 (the default) to 50 or 100 or whatever we want. The value 30 represents more or less the maximum percentage research boost you can get. (Actually for a 12 player game the maximum boost is 11/12 x 30% i.e. 27.5%).
<DefineName>TECH_COST_TOTAL_KNOWN_TEAM_MODIFIER</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>30</iDefineIntVal>
In the TG PitSuc they changed the maximum boost to 50% although in my mind I would be quite happy to see this even as high as 100% or more to really help keep lagging players competitive - as well as preventing the overall tech pace from lagging too much.
(Note you only get the 100% boost (actually 92% for a 12 player game) if *all* other 11 civs are still alive and have the tech... doesn't really seem that unbalancing if you really are in 12th place... )
Settings...
All look good to me and I like Global Highlands, No Tech trading or brokering, deity level and the NoScore mod (although reducing deity costs back to the default, and / or increasing the known-civ boost seems sensible with tech trading off).
Unrestricted leaders looks good too, but to keep it fair and competitive, could we allow duplicates, or (more interesting) do something like what they did for the recent CFC v. Civplayers teamer pitboss game? Where we take it in turns to pick civs (no duplicates) first, then leaders - and the first person to pick the civ is the last to pick a leader (and randomize the picking order before starting for extra fairness if required).
Otherwise the first people to pick will have a really massive advantage over the last few people.
Dreylin
Cousin Itt!
Personally, I'd prefer to stick with the original leader/civ combos, but it's not a deal-breaker by any means. If we do go unrestricted, I definitely support a snake-pick variant.
Munro
Deity
Depends on what you mean by normal. The NoScore mod doesn't affect them at all (unless we want to make explicit changes of course) so they'll be normal for this kind of MP game.
They won't be anything like Deity level barbs in SP though, because the barbs won't be getting the massive tech boost from all those AI who start with free archery and get enormous tech discounts. In MP barb axes won't start to appear until the human players have BW anyway (by definition) and / or chariots so it shouldn't be a problem.
BTW - not sure if this is open for discussion (initial settings are barbs and huts on, both of which I'm in favour of). But I think barbs add balance for a game like this in lots of areas: free XP for those starting near unusable land; helps to pace excessive REX'ing for those starting near (too much) usable land; adds the right amount of balance to goody huts. It also makes the early game a bit more interesting.
For similar balance reasons, I think it's probably good to have goody huts on (especially if barbs are) so it's more balanced for those with civs starting with scouts.
They won't be anything like Deity level barbs in SP though, because the barbs won't be getting the massive tech boost from all those AI who start with free archery and get enormous tech discounts. In MP barb axes won't start to appear until the human players have BW anyway (by definition) and / or chariots so it shouldn't be a problem.
BTW - not sure if this is open for discussion (initial settings are barbs and huts on, both of which I'm in favour of). But I think barbs add balance for a game like this in lots of areas: free XP for those starting near unusable land; helps to pace excessive REX'ing for those starting near (too much) usable land; adds the right amount of balance to goody huts. It also makes the early game a bit more interesting.
For similar balance reasons, I think it's probably good to have goody huts on (especially if barbs are) so it's more balanced for those with civs starting with scouts.
Geronimo20
Emperor
Sorry for my late replies: I couldn't access to the forum 
But I agree with you starting location plays a role. It is part of the challenge to deal with it
For known civ boosts, as it seems easy to implement, why not adding that?
Munro's solutions seem a little more balanced for players in the end of the list (I will be last). And I'd rather avoid duplicate leaders (everyone Julius won't be fun!).
So, the choice will be made from first to last player for the civ and in the reverse order for the leader.
To gain time, I propose that everyone sends me 3 civilization choices by PM in the meantime.
A second round will decide of the leaders, everyone knowing his selected civ
I will choose mine beforehands. And anyway, I'll post the results afterwards for a better transparency.
I changed for "unrestricted" in the settings
Barbs and huts are on. I didn't exclude anything from discussion. The main point being most of people should feel comfortable with the settings/rules.
I cannot change the map type, as this is the name of the Pitboss.
But I agree with you starting location plays a role. It is part of the challenge to deal with it
I was not aware of that.
Then I would be OK to set deity techs costs back to 130%
For known civ boosts, as it seems easy to implement, why not adding that?
Munro's solutions seem a little more balanced for players in the end of the list (I will be last
). And I'd rather avoid duplicate leaders (everyone Julius won't be fun!).So, the choice will be made from first to last player for the civ and in the reverse order for the leader.
To gain time, I propose that everyone sends me 3 civilization choices by PM in the meantime.
A second round will decide of the leaders, everyone knowing his selected civ
I will choose mine beforehands. And anyway, I'll post the results afterwards for a better transparency.
Ronnie1
Deity
I'll play....
No Score Mod is great...
Do I need to choose a leader?
No Score Mod is great...
Do I need to choose a leader?
Geronimo20
Emperor
Nice Roonie, you take the remaining slot!
The civ/leader process selection will be the following:
You'll have to send me 3 civilization choices via PM, from 1st choice to 3rd choice. I'll check if there are duplicate civilizations. If so, the first player to sign in has the priority (sorry, Roonie, you'll be I'll be nearly last on this criteria).
Once everyone has a civ, you'll send me 3 leader choices (unrestricted). This time in case of duplicate leader, the last player will have the priority.
At the moment, I received 6 PM (and no duplicate 1st choice).
Munro
Deity
Ok - see attached for a modified version of the NoScore mod which puts deity research rates back to normal (130% of noble) and increases max research boost for 'known civs with this tech' from 30% to 100%.
I also found a way to fix the scores so it doesn't give away your wonder count, by keying it off your tech count instead. You now get 1 point for having any tech (regardless of how many techs you have), or 2 points for having all of them. This means everyone will score exactly 1 throughout the game (even before settling your first city) until someone reaches Future Tech 1.
Here's the full list of what is included in this NoScoreV2 mod. (Bold indicates a change from Niklas' original NoScore mod).
The Wheel
Agriculture
Hunting
Mysticism
Mining
Sailing
Pottery
Animal Husbandry
Archery
Masonry
Usual installation instructions.
I also found a way to fix the scores so it doesn't give away your wonder count, by keying it off your tech count instead. You now get 1 point for having any tech (regardless of how many techs you have), or 2 points for having all of them. This means everyone will score exactly 1 throughout the game (even before settling your first city) until someone reaches Future Tech 1.
Here's the full list of what is included in this NoScoreV2 mod. (Bold indicates a change from Niklas' original NoScore mod).
- Set all scores to 1. (Receive +1 for researching all techs)
- Removes the global demographics screen.
- Removes all 5 barbarian uprising events (Huns, Vandals, Goths, Philistenes, Vedic Aryans).
- Restricts list of techs popped from goody huts to first 2 columnns of the tech tree, minus the 2 religion techs (list of possible techs below).
- Customized deity level - AI bonuses are the same as for human players.
- Max research boost for 'known civs with tech' is increased from 30% to 100%.
The Wheel
Agriculture
Hunting
Mysticism
Mining
Sailing
Pottery
Animal Husbandry
Archery
Masonry
Usual installation instructions.
- Download the attached .zip file and extract the contents to your \Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods directory.
- When you're done you should see a NoScoreV2 folder in your Mods directory, and be able to load the NoScoreV2 mod from the Civ main menu.
- Note: if you see an Extract_contents_to_Mods_folder__NoScoreV2 mod listed in the menu instead, you need to move the NoScoreV2 folder out of that directory into your main Mods directory).
Geronimo20
Emperor
Many thanks Munro! This modified mod seems great for me. Is everyone OK with using this mod?
About "Full of resources" setting, I would agree if it makes the game more balanced for players (which was the goal of using "balanced resources" setting). But I must admit I never played this king of map. Any comments on this point?
Indiansmoke
Deity
I would play except that I agree with Classical hero, this is the worst map script possible. Last time I played it some people ended up on a small islands full of hills with no food, some ended in the middle of jungle with not much to do until IW and some ended with premium land full of resources...guess who won.
Geronimo20
Emperor
It seems all available slots are filled. If a position is available (and if the map is not too much of a problem), you're first on the waiting list.
If we can use the "Full of resource" setting, I hope it may limit the "no food" starting points. Massive continents should prevent from having small islands as starting points. But I agree this map is not an easy one... that's why this pitboss is named challenge
Indiansmoke
Deity
It seems all available slots are filled. If a position is available (and if the map is not too much of a problem), you're first on the waiting list.
If we can use the "Full of resource" setting, I hope it may limit the "no food" starting points. Massive continents should prevent from having small islands as starting points. But I agree this map is not an easy one... that's why this pitboss is named challenge
Well there is no challenge in starting isolated in a 4 city island that has 1 corn and 2 seafood and all other tiles are hills and plains...ask IANDC...
I have seen this before...remember angry barbs Geromino? We were saying from the beggining that the map (tectonics) was not good for multiplayer...and what happened?...everyone quit when I was running ahead due to better land.
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