Do high level spies make better diplomats?

Xiao Xiong · Sep 2, 2013

I like to keep one spy in my capital killing thiefs. Usually I use my highest ranking spy. The rest work in my diplomatic corp.

Diplomats never level up. Wondering if there is any benefit in using a higher ranked spy.

Do they get better deals? Make introductions faster?

Doesn't seem so but I haven't studied it.

dexters · Sep 2, 2013

No, but that's been an open issue that's been discussed since BNW; basically, leveling spies is a chore and they don't get any promotions for their jobs outside of tech stealing.

I don't even think they affect election rigging as it is the spy who has been there longer than wins out and it may have been for the next election only, once that's done, the timer resets and both spies are on even footing (I could be wrong); encountering an AI spy in the same city state has been quite rare in BNW

tedoll78 · Sep 2, 2013

I wish a higher-level spy would take a bit less time in the "making introductions" phase of diplomatic maneuvers. It'd make a small but helpful difference in the vote count..

dexters · Sep 2, 2013

@HylianTom

There's a lot they can do wrt to espionage; we ocasionally get people suggesting a long list of sabotage missions that's derived from Civ3/4 and mostly proven to be annoying and or needed to be heavily nerfed to prevent unbalancing the game, but aside from that, there's a little bit of nuance that could be introduced into the game such as what you suggested.

Basically making promotions easier, allowing spies to earn EXP for stealing tech, rigging elections and coups instead of a flat promotion from stealking tech, introduce promotions to allow people to specialize their spies, and like you said, making spies better diplomats if they are leveled up.

comatosedragon · Sep 2, 2013

tedoll78 said:
I wish a higher-level spy would take a bit less time in the "making introductions" phase of diplomatic maneuvers. It'd make a small but helpful difference in the vote count..

Agreed. 5 turns is too many. Maybe it shaves a turn off with each promotion? (How many promotions are there anyway? 3, right?)

tedoll78 · Sep 2, 2013

I play on Marathon, so it takes 15 turns to go through the process. At that rate, my diplomat can make his/her way through to usually four or five civs before it's voting time. If it were to go down to perhaps 12 turns, that'd be a few extra potential votes.. pretty handy for close WC situations.

Cicerosaurus · Sep 2, 2013

dexters said:
No, but that's been an open issue that's been discussed since BNW; basically, leveling spies is a chore and they don't get any promotions for their jobs outside of tech stealing.

I don't even think they affect election rigging as it is the spy who has been there longer than wins out and it may have been for the next election only, once that's done, the timer resets and both spies are on even footing (I could be wrong); encountering an AI spy in the same city state has been quite rare in BNW

Dexters, I may be mistaken, but I thought if you failed to rig an election the message you received was "XXXX succeeded in rigging the election- you may wish to use a higher ranked spy." (Something similar anyway).

Civipedia is not a huge help. It merely states that higher ranked spies perform their missions faster and more effectively.

I will acknowledge that what the message says and Civipedia says may not be reflected in the game.

Xiao Xiong · Sep 3, 2013

Seems like faster introductions would be the right benefit. Or negotiating for more delegates in the later rounds.

Guess for now it is better to keep a ranked up spy on the capital.

flying_dug0ng · Sep 3, 2013

If you're higher up in the tech lead, keeping a lower level spy at home will usually give him a chance to level up.

But yeah it's a little weird they introduced a whole new spy mechanic without taking into consideration spy ranks.

Halcyan2 · Sep 3, 2013

dexters said:
No, but that's been an open issue that's been discussed since BNW; basically, leveling spies is a chore and they don't get any promotions for their jobs outside of tech stealing.

I don't even think they affect election rigging as it is the spy who has been there longer than wins out and it may have been for the next election only, once that's done, the timer resets and both spies are on even footing (I could be wrong); encountering an AI spy in the same city state has been quite rare in BNW

Regarding spies in city states - higher level spies have a significantly higher success rate for coups. With a level 3 spy, you often have greater than a 50% chance of a coup even if you have 0 influence....

tedoll78 said:
I play on Marathon, so it takes 15 turns to go through the process. At that rate, my diplomat can make his/her way through to usually four or five civs before it's voting time. If it were to go down to perhaps 12 turns, that'd be a few extra potential votes.. pretty handy for close WC situations.

I alternate between Standard speed, Marathon, and Quick, and have found that the time to establish spies/diplomats is roughly the same. Which means for Marathon, it's actually less time in comparison than, say, Quick.

Makavcio · Sep 3, 2013

Higher level diplomats offer better espionage - info about enemy plans. It works the same way as with spies. Alas, there are absolutely no other gains.

The easiest thing to do would be to reduce the settling time and make it possible to buy more votes. 2 potential votes per diplomat level maybe?

civ54lyfe · Sep 3, 2013

remember in the old Civ games where a diplomat could poison off a city's pop or destroy their buildings? :lol:

would be funny but i don't want those days back again...or do i?

Do high level spies make better diplomats?

Xiao Xiong

Prince

dexters

Gods & Emperors

tedoll78

aka 'HylianTom' :)

dexters

Gods & Emperors

comatosedragon

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tedoll78

aka 'HylianTom' :)

Cicerosaurus

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Xiao Xiong

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flying_dug0ng

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Halcyan2

Emperor

Makavcio

Prince

civ54lyfe

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