Sword of Islam: Strategy discussion

Started a side game as Gujarat, as the KoJ thread is moving pretty slowly, and I have one question regarding the UHV.

How does one become a Saint exactly? This would also apply for KoJ it's more pressing for me as Gujarat right now. Do I just build temples and make sure Hinduism is in all of my cities or what?

Founded Cairo 1SE (less overlap with Domyat and Alexandria), and founded a super city in Aswan (has almost all the resources there except for the gems), then filled in the middle later on with Asyut. Switched to theocracy, then later to persecution. Getting the horse hooked up near Aqaba is crucial also.

Sent the Berber cavalry to raid rebel cities for workers (1 from Jerusalem, 1 from Damascus, 2 from Madinah). These help build roads to Mekkah and back to Madinah.

Agree completely with an earlier post--need to raze every single city in the Levant except for Damascus. In fact, I made a crucial mistake in capturing Jerusalem first, thinking I can raze it--NOT! This made my battle against KoJ a lot harder than it should have been.
Just razed Antioch and Homus in time for PoA not to spawn.

As soon as 1st UHV kicks in, switch to persecution, and churn out Shia missionaries and religious persecutors to kick Judaism, Orthodoxy and Catholicism out from Egypt and the Levant. Refounded cities in the Levant. Made 30% Shia in 1190 or so. Big cities are much better than a bunch of small cities.

Here's my 2nd mistake: my stack had to take the long route to Baghdad because the Zengids did not OB (should have declared war on the Byzantines while they were still at war with the Zengids). I find that the Abbasids have collapsed, and as I was about to take the city, THEY RESPAWN!!

And capitulating them does NOT make you Commander of the Faithful. In fact, as I was about to capture their last city, he called a jihad on me! Lost a city to the Seljuks, but thankfully I was able to defend against the Zengids, Turks before I won by collapsing the Abbasids.

(Cairo can build a triply promoted Berber cavalry in 1 turn, and it is the best unit because of their much larger distance traveled per turn, Lancers were useless here.)

Krug said:

Started a side game as Gujarat, as the KoJ thread is moving pretty slowly, and I have one question regarding the UHV.

How does one become a Saint exactly? This would also apply for KoJ it's more pressing for me as Gujarat right now. Do I just build temples and make sure Hinduism is in all of my cities or what?

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As Gujarat, it's crucial to have Hinduism with temple and monastery in every city and two cathedrals for a total of six cities, while there are no non-state religions present. Researching religious techs, building religious (Hindu) wonders and spreading Hinduism also gives temporary benefits.

The same is true for KoJ, although there you don't have to be that rigid because of the Holy Sepulchre bonus.

I noticed in my SOI games that razing a city doesn't incur a stability penalty as much as the diplomatic penalty. I have razed a few cities in Anatolia as the Ottomans only to found out that I pretty much alienated the entire world, middle eastern world anyway. Does anyone know if the diplomatic penalties ever go away? I really hate being forced to keep a poorly placed city because I happen by chance to share the same religion as said city. Although I hated the stability penalty for razing cities in Rhye's and Fall, at least I could do something about it.

It's not totally necessary to raze the levant as the Fatiminds. I left it alone til the crusaders came, then conquered it, keeping all the cities, then conquered Iraq, got the UHV and then kept playing and stayed stable enough to block the Ayyubids and the Mamluks from spawning, after losing Iraq again to an Abbassid flip. As soon as I knew I had enough units to take the levant by 1160 I switched to building mdrassahs and mosques everywhere, keeping stability up. Almost forgot you need a town in Transjordan to hold all the levant.

I have to agree with srpt, I have never done the Fatimid UHV by razing the Levant first and rebuilding it later. Remember that you can take Damascus right after Hejaz (that's were my initial Berber calvalries go) and roll over the PoA from there.

But razing those cities sure makes it easier. KoJ was hiring ALL the mercenaries which beat my most expert troops to a pulp outside Jerusalem, so I was forced to hire some myself. Imagine if I had to deal with KoJ and PoA with 2 sets of mercenaries and crusaders.

Has anybody done Merkurios like the following? Found Cairo (which has cotton, sugar and gold), wait for Fatimids to spawn, then found Aqaba (builds workboat for pearls from start), Damietta (salt, sugar--preimproved from Cairo) and Aswan (gems (pre-roaded and just takes 2 workers 4 turns to mine)--all packaged with orthodox missionaries for culture and troops for protection. In that way I got the 6 luxury just by 1000 AD. I then gave away all other cities except Cairo to other civs (DOESN'T count as losing a city), and build lots of troops for protection, and when 1300 comes by, capture Gaza or found a city right next to the resources in Gaza (if not founded already by the Ayyubids) and a city on the east coast of Africa (far away from the hubbub, say in Ethiopia). Voila--solved by a squat.

Ayyubids declared war on me, but couldn't get past my gazillions of superpromoted archers/spearmen/axemen (the copper in Sinai is under my culture) and some well aimed suicide catapults.

Just did the PoA. Yes, as Jusos says, it's quite easy if you know what you're doing (and have prepared for the Mongols).

Jusos2108 said:

Taking Syria can be a bit tricky. Since if the Fatimids in Egypt collapse before 1150, it means that the Ayyubids will spawn and flip Syria (They'll spawn at war against you). By then you probably control Damascus (unless you saw the Fatimids going down before taking it and chose not to take it) so it will flip to them. You can refuse it as majority of their troops will be in Egypt. The Ayyubids are annoying, but there is a way to get rid them with just Knights of Antioch. Just attach couple Great Generals to them and take them, accompanied by some veterans, to Egypt, where you'll just have to keep track of their main army, while pillaging every resource you can find. They'll collapse eventually.

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I razed Damascus and the Fatimids were still alive in 1153, so the Ayyubids never spawned.

The problem for me is the OB criterion. I got dogpiled by the Byzantines and the Abbasids/Zengids from both sides, and now nobody will OB. I only had the Fatimids and their vassal Merkurio, and Gujarat/Solankis (who DOW'd on the KoJ remotely). Abbasids and Seljuks have both collapsed.

One thing I learned--don't ever declare on the Byzantines who never forget anything. (he's been cautious for many years but won't OB).

I'm going to have to try again. It would be nice for the OB criterion to be in 1290, and for the Venetian criteria to be a "by" criterion (the Venetians just kept coming and going in Tarsus because I kept losing the spice around Damascus which I refounded).

Can somebody explain to me how to get crusaders? I had NONE coming to me as PoA.

Sometimes you can instantly become almost everybody's darling as PoA by converting to Sunni Islam. And IIRC you get reinforcements (but much less than KoJ) if you lose almost all of your troops early in a major battle.

Has anyone had success with the Samanids? I'm finding them a bit hard. Terrible stability with 2 of your core provinces flipping to other civs right away.

When playing as the Samanids, you need to know what's happening, so check the spawning civs and their flip zones. You can also win the game before Khwarezmids spawn. Use your UP for stability and Great Artist or culture slider for the first condition.


Back to Fatimids. This is what I do with them:

After the initial moves: Hejaz -> Damascus -> Iraq. I collected a little money (Al-Kufah + Baghdad) for mercs and killed KoJ couple turns after their spawn. Then moved on against PoA. And there is really no rush. Actually I basicly (no indie Aqaba, Homs) had Levant in 1124. I also had to wait for 1160 quite long, since I had 30% Shia around 1145. EDIT: So all that razing is pretty much pointless!

OK Jusos, I finally got the PoA. Here's what your guide is missing:

1. The OB thing should be done ASAP. I.e. OB with Byzantines, Georgia (if present) and either Cicilia or Armenia (in my game they were rebel)--at least 2/3 should be there. OB with Jerusalem next. DO NOT CAPTURE ANTIOCH, but capture an indy city (like Sis in my case and Tarsus next). On third turn, Tripoli becomes capital. Switch to Sunni Islam. Make peace with Abbasids, Seljuks and Rom ASAP. Gift money, then OB--3 more. Also got the Zengids (after killing a bunch of lancers and horse archers) before I finally got 6 since I didn't have Georgia initially. I didn't even need Oman.

2. I then switched back to Orthodox (the Byzantines are very nice friends and helps with counterweighing the Seljuks). The stupid Karimi Family will come in after you switch to Islam, so switch back to Christianity is better. Since Catholicism is very rare initially, Orthodoxy is best. The Byzantines even helped me convert a frontier city (Ar-Raqqah or Callinicum, in Zengi traditional territory). Bohemond should have been much nicer to the Emperor in real life...he would have saved himself a lot of grief.

3. It finally dawned on me that Tyre is very essential for the 3rd goal. It's got a spice, and its production and growth is way better than Tarsus. I also capitulated the KoJ to demand their incense. In the end I had 4 Venetian Quarters.

Even built the Moai Statue-equivalent, Krak des Chevaliers and a useless Heroic Epic that never built units.

Well, my guide worked for me just fine.

BTW, one of the easiest OBs is Ghaznavids, they are always fighting Ghori, so meet them too, declare war and OB with Ghaznavids. Then move on to India were you can easily get 1-2 more OBs. That's all you need.

Ok I got the Samanids figured out. The out-of-the-blue bad stability was from indie Herat being in my core. I think the fact that you have til 1160 to get the third goal made me think of expanding later. My strategy this time was to get the 8 provinces before the Seljuk spawn in 1037. I did that by conquering Bamiyan, Lahore, Multan and Herat and settling Gandhar, Duggar and Sindh, with an archer parked at Peshawar to prevent its spawn. It spawns with a marksman on a hill so its tough to take. I think I had tech at zero the whole time and 1 great artist, which I made at Merv, seems to be all you need for the first goal. If you plant your last settler just before the Seljuk spawn you get a golden age to cushion the stability hit.

Jusos2108 said:

BTW, one of the easiest OBs is Ghaznavids, they are always fighting Ghori, so meet them too, declare war and OB with Ghaznavids. Then move on to India were you can easily get 1-2 more OBs. That's all you need.

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The problems are:
1. What Ghaznavids--I can't even get through to those pesky Abbasids later on, and hordes of Mongols coming from the east. I didn't even meet the Ghaznavids or the Ghorids.
2. The Indians often find me instead, because I have absolutely no access over there. And the few games I did play, they were either all vassals of each other and there was no war, and I think they declared on DoJ in the failed game I had just purely because they got bribed by another AI.
3. Indians don't OB when given gold, and some of them won't even OB with a tech gift.

My point is that the OB criterion should be first, not last in the things to achieve as per your guide. By 1200 there would be so many collapsed civs due to the Mongols, and that relations would be so poisoned by previous wars and demands on the AI's part (for helping out with wars or tech/gold demands that you refuse) that OB would be much tougher.

So when the Portuguese show up knowing Matchlock, does it mean I've failed the Ottoman 1st UHV?

IIRC Portugal spawns 1503. However, Edead changed something in Portugals starting techs, so that the Ottomans would have fighting chance. Can't recall what though...

The change was that Portugal starts with Matchlock but without Military Drill, so yes, you have get the first one before the arrival of the Portuguese.

For the Timurids, do people find it better to be at war with an unstable Khwarezmid Empire (and inherit some developed cities), or to find it all trashed/massacred by Mongols but easier to capture and raze those cities, and then refound the cities later with better infrastructure?
I'm leaning towards the former but it sure makes it harder to expand your empire initially.

In my opinion it is better to have some cities to massacre than completely barren lands. The culture goal is actually harder than the others. Khwarezmid are bound to collapse quickly anyway.