Let`s all just attack him. Who cares that he`s a good, friendly, neighbour? We don`t.

I was trying so hard to build a peaceful civ early. I had the minimum needed troops to save money without going into the red. I fast built 4 cities. I did my best to be friendly with EVERYONE I met, agreeing to all Friendships etc and getting into NO wars for anyone. I even promised not to expand into her area when China asked- and kept it.

But oh no, the first Civ I met, Sweden decided I was still weak enough to attack. It weakened my forces in the ensuing war. Then China (who almost never attacked me previous games) decided I was game too and attacked unprovoked. This busted me and I lost 3 cities quickly. Then they ran out of steam and just as I thought I might have a chance to lick my wounds, The Mayans attacked (unprovoked again) and went for my final city mercillessly.

I was cusring and swearing. I wanted to visit all those Leaders and swear into their faces, just because they were being gits. All these attacks were completely unprovoked and just the AI slicing me up as part of `Eat Mr. Socratatus pie`. the fact that my people were the happiest ever seemed just insult to injury. Why are they happy? We`re on the edge of extinction for Heaven`s sake!

Finally my last city was wiped out. I guess you really don`t have a chance if you don`t have a strong military first.

Forget peace. Next time I become a military dictatership!

I have experienced many of the same frustrations. Post-patch, the AI definitely seems more inclined toward unprovoked aggression.

In my latest start (Arabia, deity, pangaea) I was fortunate to start at one end of pangaea with an isthmus between me and everyone else. That allowed me to get 5 cities up and running. One unprovoked attack so far, by sea from the Huns- but what did I expect?

I can't tell if you are STILL looking for help on how to improve your game or just ranting. Seems like a rant. There is already a thread for that you know.

But if you do want help I will be more than happy to give advice.

Socratatus said:

Forget peace. Next time I become a military dictatership!

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Heh heh heh! And with all that military at your disposal, you'll suddenly find peace, since nobody will have the chutzpah to attack you. It's ironic, but sort of how the real world works, too.

Peace, through superior firepower.

Gamewizard said:

I can't tell if you are STILL looking for help on how to improve your game or just ranting. Seems like a rant. There is already a thread for that you know.

But if you do want help I will be more than happy to give advice.

Click to expand...

1. I`d like to be able to play peaceful sometimes without mad unprovoked wars from almost everyone.
2. Happiness makes no sense at all. You lose your indigenous cities and are about to die and people are beaming?
3. I hope the Devs will see this and patch the game to make Civs less likley to always want war unprovoked and fix this upside-down broken happiness.
4. I know there are other threads. I`m annoyed.
5. Yes, it`s also a rant.
6. All of the above might get Devs listening and fixing things.

Socratatus said:

I`d like to be able to play peaceful sometimes without mad unprovoked wars from almost everyone.

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This is the common lament of all mankind, down through the millenia.

OK then, I will try to help, despite it being a rant.

First, you cannot befriend EVERY civ you meet since the AI is not looking to befriend EVERY civ it meets. If you are friends with A and B and then A and B decide to hate each other, both A and B will think you are working with the enemy and hate you for it.

Also, you said you expanded FAST to 4 cities. The AI sees fast expansion as a sign of aggression. You can tell this because China came to you and asked you to stop expanding. Yes you kept your promise but nevertheless the damage had already been done. They don't SUPER HATE you for it but they still think you are playing too aggressively.

Finally, you said it yourself: "Sweden decided I was still weak enough to attack. It weakened my forces in the ensuing war". You expanded fast and neglected to build a military to protect your expanded empire. You are prime for the pickings. And don't expect China and the Maya to sit by idly as Sweden gobbles you up. They want a piece of your tender, juicy loins as well.

As for your gripe about the happiness system...it is a game mechanic to control growth. Could they call it "growth control number" instead of happiness...sure, but they chose happiness instead. Is that really a big deal (that is rhetorical...it is not a big deal).

To credit of the system, even though the latest patch seems to have upped the aggression, they also really improved the response of the AI in diplomatic situations. I remember getting into a similar situation where I tried playing nice and ended up embroiled in a long rue with Siam. After we slugged it for a while, Arabia (who had played best friends with me, done trades, DoFs, supported me) decided I looked like easy pickings and opened up a DoW on me out of nowhere to put me into a two front war.

The response? That turn China, Babylon, and Persia- all of whom I had only been neutral with and the later of which I was in a bit of a border contest in- all Denounced him immediately and all 3 DoW'ed him within 3 turns.

So yes, there is some greater aggression, but it's not completely unchecked, as the AI is very wary of aggressors; even the non-human ones.

army strength is the single biggest factor in diplomacy. if you are relatively weaker than the other civs around you, you will get attacked. simple as that. you have to keep a strong defensive army if you want to play peacefully, or be very isolated.

"Who cares that he's a good, friendly neighbor? He's weak and he's got stuff!

You should have expected that kind of stuff from Sweeden, he's a bit of a warmonger. It'd be unusual for him to not take advantage.

The best way to play peaceful is to make your position clearly unassailable.

I used to find myself weaker than my neighbors and often got attacked (186 pointy sticks versus my 21? ). I cut down on building wonders and make sure I have an army now.

Yea the AI is super aggressive now in civ games lately...no surprise that happened to you.But if you didn't early 4 city expand i think you would have a big enough military to defend against all 4 civs. What difficulty were you playing on?

Try paying other civs to war against each other. Seems they get restless if they have a large military and nothing to use it on.

You can only keep up the game for so long though; eventually if they really want your lands, they cannot be paid off.

G&K with patch has much more aggressive AI's. I literally will do nothing but accept Dofs and build my cities (and a bunch of archers next to them) and I suddenly get attacked. What's even worse is that the next turn another empire or two on the other side of the continent declare war on me. WTF?

chazzycat said:

army strength is the single biggest factor in diplomacy. if you are relatively weaker than the other civs around you, you will get attacked. simple as that. you have to keep a strong defensive army if you want to play peacefully, or be very isolated.

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Which all sounds very 'real world' realistic to this relative noob

I feel similar to OP, you have to be aggressive early on mainly on higher levels to keep up with the AI. Playing peacefully is hard unless you are really isolated or in a strong defensive area.

I was going to do a Mod to give a penalty to attackers vs defenders (probably happiness) but in another post people said that the unhappiness per city conquered was already enough, I disagree.

rf900 said:

I feel similar to OP, you have to be aggressive early on mainly on higher levels to keep up with the AI. Playing peacefully is hard unless you are really isolated or in a strong defensive area.

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Thats not true, you can very well be peacefull, you just cant be undefended and weak. WHen you are strong enough to defend you most likely dont have to

BSPollux - I play on Immortal mostly occasionaly Deity and I have to agree - so in the early game you are supposed to have an army to match the AI? No nowhere close and you probably will never have as many sheer units as the AI on harder levels.

Prior to the patch the AI were at least diplomatically negotiable - now it just seems like we are back to Vanilla's backstabbing as will and early on before the player has had a chance to form some roots.
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If you are "weak" at any point in the game it is easy for the AI to start a denouncing/war chain that leads to unhappy relations with everyone around you.
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I think they did something to the AI since the patch that made them too aggresive over their nature of diplomacy. Not sure what level you play at but if its say Emperor or below it probably is easier to remain at peace just because of sheer values. Immortal + seems like a guarentee for war with at least 1 civ early on (if you are secluded) and odds are more if you are surrounded by many as they will all want to take advantage now

I have 2 games running right now 1 pang and 1 terra and on my pang I was backstabbed by Gandhi, after Pachachuti declared war on me, Sejong denounced me, and Siam who I had bribed to go to war with the Inca declared war on me. I had responded to Gandhi's friendship request [lux], not overly expanded in any of their territories, but since it was the early game it seemed and since everyone was at war with me everyone wanted a piece of me. I can hold my land in this game without a problem - its just annoying to be at war all game all the time for what seems to be very little reason

just sign a defensive pact, you'll know who's your true friend.

On Immortal though there should be wars early. It is after all the second hardest difficulty. Things should be difficult.