Better to capitulate than to leave unattended

I'm going with warmongering penalty does not automatically show up if you eliminate a civ. I believe other factors come into play.

In your case, I think its pretty clear the AI spies have been reading your forum posts and they have labeled you, appropriately, a warmonger

Next time build some forts on your borders. I've defended against swarms of units with only 2 legions on forts + city ranged attack.

Forts are awesome. I've started building them more since patch was announced. Trying to get in the habit of defending the border (outside of my cities bombard range) so AI will not be able to pillage. Built one within two tiles of an opposing Civ. Provided great cover for my melee unit while the ranged units went to work on the city.

Socratatus said:

I only play prince and found myself losing a lot of money trying to keep a City state happy. they sure chew up the cash then forget.

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I agree! About 10 mins ago I liberated Lisbon from the grips of Spain and only got 170/60 brownie points for it. Rather than being eternally grateful, they seem to be from the De Gaulle school of momentary approval.

It is nice to get the trinkets when they are allies, but I rarely pay for it. The only time is early in the game and I need a place for a ship far from home can heal, or someone has a new resource that I want them to share. My spies usually end up killed when I put them in AI capitals so I use them to influence elections in CSs.

I cant be sure but it seems like the more your influence engulfs them, the more they like you - or it could also be that their trait matches something about you (cultural and you have lots, they are religious and yours is dominant and swamping them etc). There are always 1-2 CSs that love me but they are always nearby.

Thanks guys this thread has really helped me out.

whyidie said:

Notification log didn't go back enough.

Known : If you remove civs before coming into contact with other civs no penalty.

Unknown : Is it absolute that exterminating a civ will mean a diplo penalty ?

In the game I just wrapped I thought I had discovered Carthage and Byzantium before I took out Thailand and did not get a warmonger penalty with those two.

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Update, you can indeed exterminate a Civ without getting the warmonger penalty.

Isabella before I take out Monty :


Isabella after taking him out. Catherine didn't change either, though we eventually fell out :



Augustus however, he didn't like it :




Even when Catherine ended up denouncing me, it was because of settling too many cities and a DoF, not the warmongering :

whyidie said:

Update, you can indeed exterminate a Civ without getting the warmonger penalty.

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I've seen that before too, but beware- frequently, another civ will indeed harbor ill will against you for warmongering and many other things- and not show it to you in the diplo indicators.

But as soon as they garner enough negative feelings toward you sometime down the ages, then, all of a sudden <BOOM!>... all of the things they were really holding against you will pop up and be visibile, and you'll realize they were simply hiding their hatred from you all along, under a guise of friendship. Take what you see on those diplo screens with a really big amount of salt.

I really dislike the exterminate penalty if they DOW you. I play a pretty peaceful game 90 percent of the time. But if someone DOW's me and they let me get the upper hand I enjoy making them pay. They deserve to be exterminated for poking the sleeping bear. (Yeah I'm looking at you Alexander) lol

Smokeybear said:

I've seen that before too, but beware- frequently, another civ will indeed harbor ill will against you for warmongering and many other things- and not show it to you in the diplo indicators.

But as soon as they garner enough negative feelings toward you sometime down the ages, then, all of a sudden <BOOM!>... all of the things they were really holding against you will pop up and be visibile, and you'll realize they were simply hiding their hatred from you all along, under a guise of friendship. Take what you see on those diplo screens with a really big amount of salt.

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I really thought the hidden modifier is what was behind Russia denouncing me. I did found another city, on the other side of the continent, no where close to her and that apparently set her over the edge. Was waiting for the warmongering penalty to show up at some point but it never did, only with Sweden.

I founded no other cities (only 3 total), yet as I conquered Russia I was eventually given the "founding cities too aggressively" with a couple of the other Civs.

Not sure if it qualifies as a hidden modifier, or its mixed in with Puppets, but it has the same effect of getting a warmonger penalty....just another negative modifier.

oman19 said:

Do you still get the Warmonger penalty if they are the ones to DOW?

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You do, but it goes away faster (I think).