First Game on King...anybody have constant war issues?

I'm playing king, near turn 300, first time.
Small continents, 8 civs, Dutch.

The big thing I am dealing with is AI wars.
I've tried my best to follow this science guide.

My military had mostly CBs/ranged units, a few naval, and melee.
I was 5 of 8 in military, not bad.

I had the Mayans and Carthage to my north.
I settelled 4 cities by t75, about 6 tiles apart, so my outer settlements where near the Maya and Carthage capitals. They didn't like it, but didn't do much about it.

I meet Indonesia, on the neighboring continent. We trade, then he backstabs and attacks me. Unlike other times on Prince, this was goes on forever.
I just play defense, pick off his units, and he takes forever to make peace.

Maybe 20 turns later, the Mayans Dow me, then Indonesia backstabs and Dow, then Carthage does.

I've been at war forever, and don't get if this is just the way it is at King and above if you are a good civ.

Like the Mayans, I played defense and knocked out his units, tried for peace, he would not agree.
So I pushed forward, just before taking his capital, offered peace, he would have none of it.
Took his capital, he still would not have peace even through me elininating him.

I have the 2nd best military behind Indonesia, I've destroyed his navy twice, and he still will not make peace.
Carthage has one city, they are very weak, and still will not make peace.

Now, I'm wondering if there is something I am doing to cause this to happen or if it's the nature of the game at higher levels?

When I played on Prince, continents, as Babylon I had Korea/Russia/Venice on my continent. After awhile they resented me and would denounce me, but never a Dow.
I'm wondering if at king and higher, instead of denoucing they just Dow forever if you happen to a good civ and neighbors.

What I do not get is how these AI's like the Mayans would rather be annilihated than make peace with me. I had his capital and was ready to capture his 2nd and last city and still he said "tired of battle." Makes no sense.

you might want to constantly check the diplomacy modifiers, and I think it started with you forward settling on them. However, it is still quite strange that the AI blatantly refuses to peace with you when they're clearly losing...

but since you're basically wiping out your continent, it doesn't really matter, and Indonesia can't do much to your cities on land until battleships and stuff. Just make sure your literacy is on top and treat it as a domination game.

Hard to know exactly what's happened here. I think a few different diplomacy mis-steps might have snowballed and cost you.

From this line

"Took his capital, he still would not have peace even through me eliminating him."

it seems to suggest you actually eliminated another Civ from the game? Did you? That's not a good move, ever. The other AI civs will hate you and you'll end up fighting a lot of wars. Unless you're prepared to be at war continually thereafter don't do it.

Settling near other AI capitals is seen by them as an aggressive move. Four cities in good spots in a land-short game might be enough to cause a lot of envy.

You also appear to have, unnecessarily, given the bloc you are fighting against positive modifiers to their relationship strength like "fighting a common foe".

Which brings me to the next point. At turn 300, have you chosen an ideology yet? If so, that could be causing (or prolonging) all this. The ideology diplomacy effects are massive. If you're a different ideology then the AI civs will declare war on you with little provocation (and eliminating a civ is more than ample provocation). If you're the one Freedom ideology amongst a bunch of Order or Autocracy civs then gratuitous existence is enough to provoke war.

If you go to the diplomacy screen and mouse over the description of the relationship (neutral/friendly/guarded/ WAR!!) you'll see a little pop-up helper box explaining what is going into that relationship. It will say things, in red and green, like "Covet your lands", "fought a common foe", "Have an embassy", "Consider you a Warmonger".

If you go there you should be able to get a grip on why the other civs hate your guts. I'm betting it will be a along the lines of "coveting lands" which has provoked war, where you took multiple cities and so gained a warmonger penalty.

Final point is that if there has been an agreement to go to war together, the AI Civs can't make peace for 10 turns. Sometimes when weak civs DOW you, you just need to wait the 10 turns then lob a few shots at their capital. Then they'll make peace.

EDIT: Sorry Sessy - I got distracted and hadn't read your post before I replied.

A military of mostly xbows at turn 300 is not a good sign. Those should be more like xcoms.

First time I made the jump to King within 4 turns of taking Ghandi's capital every single civ in the game denounced and dow me..was playing on a huge map with 22 civs so this one definitely took me by suprise

The warmonger penalty is related to how many cities the civ has.

Taking the Capital likely wasn't the problem since there is nothing special about Capitals in the warmonger score to my knowledge (from other civs, the civ who's capital you took gets annoyed).

But if you systematically take three cities culminating in the capital you'll be up for a major penalty since you are taking someone's third-last, then second-last, then last city all in a row. The penalties add up.

At this point, just go domination. Don't worry about it. Keep your happiness up and stop asking for peace. Your game is just too far gone to worry about diplomacy. Enjoy the fight - sounds like you're doing fine - and try again in your next game. It took me a few tries to really get a handle on what makes the AI grumpy. Honestly, your best bet is to pay them to fight each other. Then you can pick your friends.

Constant wars is almost always the result of poor diplomacy. As mentioned earlier check the diplo modifiers to see what you did wrong in the AI's eyes. The diplomacy long game requires some sacrifices on your part but it will pay off in the long run as you will be left alone.

Now there are times when you can't avoid wars as the civ in question is that way inclined, but most of the time on Emperor and lower you can get away with not building any units at all. Focus on your science and your diplomacy and you wont need to build units.

Seems fairly normal to me on G&K, but I was under the impression that BNW AI's are less aggressive? Either way, if you're playing standard you should be in a comfortable position by T300 - build some beggars and go full Dom.

Yeah, I once made the mistake of conquering a CS and eliminating a Civ early in the game. Never repeated that. It was tough the rest of the game though basically I just shifted to a domination road and sniped capitals.

I never take the last city of a civ. Ever anymore. I usually figure out their newest/weakest city, and take them all but that one. It's funny watching Bismark yell at your large #1 ranked Civ from a city with 3 population, with no growth options. I've also used CS's to take cities that would have given me a major warmonger penalty. I would wipe out their defense, knock the city defense to 0, and let someone else take it. Works great if a CS Ally is parked right beside their city. So with that in mind, I'll sometimes leave the last city to take out one that is right beside a CS ally.

And I don't think I've ever had a game that Indonesia didn't backstab me. Now, if I see them in game, I'll basically keep overtly provoking them (missionaries, denouncements, etc) until they declare war on me.

I won at turn 448 on science.

I still don't get why the local AI's hated me.
Carthage and the Mayans were on my continent...Indonesia on the next.

I hovered over diplomacy and Indonesia never had any complaints. They DOWed me TWICE, once after actually being my friend. I had to destroy his navy twice to shut him up.

Only after Indo DOWed me, the Mayans and Carthage became his friend, then DOWed me, and only then, when I played defense, beat them, and they still would not make peace, did I take their cities.
Weird how they never, ever wanted peace before annilhation.

So now I am playing at emperor as the Americans going for science.
Nobody has DoWed me and I've been denounced just once at turn 325.

As the Dutch on king, I settled two cities right on the border with the other two AIs on my continent, and stole some land with a citadel.
I guess I didn't realize that has long term consequences, I'd have thought that grudge would be over mid game, but I guess that is a huge demerit.

Also Indonesia bordered me, I was the closest civ to them and weaker militarily, so I guess that provoked war.

Lesson learned:
-Try to avoid land disputes
-If bordering a warmonger your military has to be more than average to deter war.

With all due respect, your lessons learned should be:

-Never neglect your army
-If someone has the maxim gun and you don't, what he/she says is always right.

bcyy said:

With all due respect, your lessons learned should be:

-Never neglect your army
-If someone has the maxim gun and you don't, what he/she says is always right.

Click to expand...

Funny, last time Assyria said that to me and that my military was weak they DOW me with Shaka, managed to lose there capital and paid me two other cities and had Shaka back stab them .

However, yes, never neglect army is top priority, even the human's skill in war can only go so far against Impi Carpets of Doom

The only way back after stokeing up so much mutual animosity from the AI's would have been to swamp them with Ideology - pointless as a Culture victory wasn't your aim?

I'd've switched to Domination path as they would have bugged me, but that's just me....