you're right, I only recommend to choose piety first if you are playing with byzantines or celts
I have always used tradition without fail as my 1st policy, a question
- Thread starter Leathaface
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you're right, I only recommend to choose piety first if you are playing with byzantines or celts
Depends on difficulty, I can't play deity/immortal on a balanced map without going Tradition OR Liberty, one or two points in Patronage, and then Rationalism. I've seen better players like MadJinn open with both Tradition and Honor but I can't do it it slows down science too much.
Honestly I wish Rationalism would be toned down and Honor and Exploration twekked abit.
Honestly I wish Rationalism would be toned down and Honor and Exploration twekked abit.
I usually open Traditional to get the early culture then focus on the free worker and settler in liberty. I like to reserve the free culture buildings for late game. In my current game I received 2 free broadcast towers and 2 museums.
Zezima
Professional Troll
It applies to the cities you conquer as well, as long as you haven't settled 4 of your own yet.
Cromagnus
Deity
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It really depends on the civ you're playing. Most civs can play multiple openers well. Certain civs demand Tradition, like Ethiopia and Babylon. But others are more flexible.
Take Dido of Carthage for example. The free Harbor in every city almost begs you to take Liberty. If you go full Liberty/partial Piety/partial Exploration/Order, you can found an infinite number of cities even if you let them grow. (+1 happiness from Harbors, +1 happiness/2 cities, +3 production/coastal city, +1 production/city, fast-building monuments/temples/shrines, +2 happiness from monuments, +1 food shrine/temple, etc. etc. etc.... It's combolicious, and later in the game you're generating 300 faith/turn)
Add to that the ability to send production/food to your new cities, and it's just ridiculous.
And yet, the ability to capture cities early with Quinqueremes means you could easily win the game without ever founding a second city. So, Honor is a great choice. Those Quinqueremes can chew through barbarians and earn promotions, keeping your trade routes safe until they're +60% vs cities. :-D
Or go Tradition to get that one city moving really fast, because a tall production city can pump out Quinqueremes every other turn. You can take over the world with Tradition. Every city you capture has a harbor. On Archipelago or Continents that is... On pangaea if you want harbors you need to cap a lot of city-states. ;-)
Personally, I almost always go Tradition, but I occasionally open with Honor or Liberty. If I open with Liberty, I go for the free worker first (and I don't build one, because you get that worker at about the same time you'd have built it), then I go for the free settler, then I build 2 settlers, then I build the pyramids. Pretty standard, I think this is how most people do it. And it works. If you're having trouble making the shift from Tradition, remember this mantra: *You don't need to build that Wonder!*
I think when you always open with Tradition you get into this mindset where you think you *need* a tall city to do anything. But more cities = flexibility. You can still build that Wonder and build troops and buildings all at the same time. You can build cargo ships at the same time too, something *I* often end up forgetting to do when I go tall. because I'm chasing some stupid national wonder.
Liberty still works on the higher difficulty levels, but it's harder IMHO in BNW. You can't trade gold for luxuries out of the starting gate, so it's a slower start. Instead of 4 cities by turn 40, you might only have 2. But you can still hit 10 by turn 120. I think it now requires aggression though. You have to cap some of those cities. And eat the happiness hit by annexing them, because you can't afford for them grow. At least that's how I've been approaching it. I'm kind of a warmonger though. ;-)
EDIT: Also, for that Liberty approach I mentioned, pre-industrial units with faith is the key. When you go wide, you need to be able to defend any city without warning. Faith-buying units makes that a lot easier. Later on, the reformation belief to buy any great person with faith will give you something to do with all that faith, although finishing the Piety tree is often in conflict with Order by that point, so you may find yourself (as I do) with a lot of great prophets and nothing else. Eh, it's a work in progress.
Take Dido of Carthage for example. The free Harbor in every city almost begs you to take Liberty. If you go full Liberty/partial Piety/partial Exploration/Order, you can found an infinite number of cities even if you let them grow. (+1 happiness from Harbors, +1 happiness/2 cities, +3 production/coastal city, +1 production/city, fast-building monuments/temples/shrines, +2 happiness from monuments, +1 food shrine/temple, etc. etc. etc.... It's combolicious, and later in the game you're generating 300 faith/turn)
Add to that the ability to send production/food to your new cities, and it's just ridiculous.
And yet, the ability to capture cities early with Quinqueremes means you could easily win the game without ever founding a second city. So, Honor is a great choice. Those Quinqueremes can chew through barbarians and earn promotions, keeping your trade routes safe until they're +60% vs cities. :-D
Or go Tradition to get that one city moving really fast, because a tall production city can pump out Quinqueremes every other turn. You can take over the world with Tradition. Every city you capture has a harbor. On Archipelago or Continents that is... On pangaea if you want harbors you need to cap a lot of city-states. ;-)
Personally, I almost always go Tradition, but I occasionally open with Honor or Liberty. If I open with Liberty, I go for the free worker first (and I don't build one, because you get that worker at about the same time you'd have built it), then I go for the free settler, then I build 2 settlers, then I build the pyramids. Pretty standard, I think this is how most people do it. And it works. If you're having trouble making the shift from Tradition, remember this mantra: *You don't need to build that Wonder!*
I think when you always open with Tradition you get into this mindset where you think you *need* a tall city to do anything. But more cities = flexibility. You can still build that Wonder and build troops and buildings all at the same time. You can build cargo ships at the same time too, something *I* often end up forgetting to do when I go tall. because I'm chasing some stupid national wonder.
Liberty still works on the higher difficulty levels, but it's harder IMHO in BNW. You can't trade gold for luxuries out of the starting gate, so it's a slower start. Instead of 4 cities by turn 40, you might only have 2. But you can still hit 10 by turn 120. I think it now requires aggression though. You have to cap some of those cities. And eat the happiness hit by annexing them, because you can't afford for them grow. At least that's how I've been approaching it. I'm kind of a warmonger though. ;-)
EDIT: Also, for that Liberty approach I mentioned, pre-industrial units with faith is the key. When you go wide, you need to be able to defend any city without warning. Faith-buying units makes that a lot easier. Later on, the reformation belief to buy any great person with faith will give you something to do with all that faith, although finishing the Piety tree is often in conflict with Order by that point, so you may find yourself (as I do) with a lot of great prophets and nothing else. Eh, it's a work in progress.
It depends if I find a barbarian camp nearby early on I will pick the Honor opener before going Tradition, being able to farm 2-3 camps for culture is a good return for the unit maintenance cost in the early game.
I occasionally go Liberty/Piety if the situation dictates.
I occasionally go Liberty/Piety if the situation dictates.
Poopin Thelift
Chieftain
My favorite settings at the moment are huge / marathon / highlands / raging barbs / immortal / Shoshone or Askia. I first open Tradition (take more stuff/finish later) then dip into Liberty to get the free worker. Depending on the barb situation I then take honor (pillage money from barb camps is usually my first source of income) or the free monuments first. That setup let me build the Pyramids (very useful on huge maps) and Hanging Gardens (always useful). The honor wonder I leave for the AIs to waste hammers on.
I play on Emperor.
For me it seems that whenever I start with tradition I seem to do better and my games feel easier.
I also like Honour when I go for domination, mix it with tradition and it can be very interesting, especially the finisher. And when autocracy comes around, it almost feels unfair (units at will, promotions at will and money for killing enemy units = the army pays for itself).
Piety - I normally only take the opener and the 20% discount and finish the tree late in the game, unless I really want the reformation belief early.
Also normally take a couple in Patronage, but don't always finish. Commerce I like quite a lot and Exploration occasionally.
Rarely take Aesthetics.
Never take Rationalism - no need.
For me it seems that whenever I start with tradition I seem to do better and my games feel easier.
I also like Honour when I go for domination, mix it with tradition and it can be very interesting, especially the finisher. And when autocracy comes around, it almost feels unfair (units at will, promotions at will and money for killing enemy units = the army pays for itself).
Piety - I normally only take the opener and the 20% discount and finish the tree late in the game, unless I really want the reformation belief early.
Also normally take a couple in Patronage, but don't always finish. Commerce I like quite a lot and Exploration occasionally.
Rarely take Aesthetics.
Never take Rationalism - no need.
Dentalfury
Warlord
I normally go for Tradition Opener possibly followed by Aristocracy for the wonder bonus if the situation is favorable. Otherwise, I dive right into Liberty Opener --> Citizenship (early worker is key for development jump start) --> Republic --> Collective Rule (Booya!) -- > Representation --> Meritocracy.
Although, as an experiment I decided to do a total war type game, Large Map/Marathon/Raging Barbarians/Pangaea with the Zulus. Only CV/DV/SV were active.
I went straight Honor and took a bit from Tradition/Liberty after I filled it out. It was nice to be more effective against the barbarians but from a development side I felt noticeably handicapped. I started to fall behind in tech, faith, and cities built. I had long term gold / happiness issues that only started to stabilize when I got into Autocracy.
I'm at roughly 1920AD right now and i'm on top of the tech race, barely, and my super upgraded armies are only being limited by distance and happiness at this point. I probably have 7 cities of my own, and 9 puppets and growing. I'm razing about 50% of all cities I take but until I take over some choice wonders other Civ's have built my military expansion will be sporadic at best.
Although, as an experiment I decided to do a total war type game, Large Map/Marathon/Raging Barbarians/Pangaea with the Zulus. Only CV/DV/SV were active.
I went straight Honor and took a bit from Tradition/Liberty after I filled it out. It was nice to be more effective against the barbarians but from a development side I felt noticeably handicapped. I started to fall behind in tech, faith, and cities built. I had long term gold / happiness issues that only started to stabilize when I got into Autocracy.
I'm at roughly 1920AD right now and i'm on top of the tech race, barely, and my super upgraded armies are only being limited by distance and happiness at this point. I probably have 7 cities of my own, and 9 puppets and growing. I'm razing about 50% of all cities I take but until I take over some choice wonders other Civ's have built my military expansion will be sporadic at best.
apotheoser
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2006
- Messages
- 336
I thought Honor was very poor, but depending on the map I've started doing the Honor opener quite often (usually 3rd or 4th policy). I easily get hundreds of Culture from killing Barbarians naval units, maybe as much as 1000.
If you can find a little area of the map with 2-3 camps nearby (island chains near the arctic or unsettled areas of a continent), a trireme with Honor opener and a single naval combat upgrade can easily tear through a Barbarian galley in a single attack.
You can also do a few little tricks like isolating a Barbarian camp and parking an archer next to it. For some reason they don't attack if they're being bombarded, even if they'd win.
If you can find a little area of the map with 2-3 camps nearby (island chains near the arctic or unsettled areas of a continent), a trireme with Honor opener and a single naval combat upgrade can easily tear through a Barbarian galley in a single attack.
You can also do a few little tricks like isolating a Barbarian camp and parking an archer next to it. For some reason they don't attack if they're being bombarded, even if they'd win.
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