Final Frontier Impressions

Hamarabi

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
31
Great fun, but .....

I feel that the module is too short and that there is a little bit of a mismatch with pace of technology and improvements. There needs to be a lot more techs between building a shipyard and your first battleship, because it is the most powerful unit in the game. Not to mention the fact that once you reach this juncture, there isn't anywhere else to go other than a more powerful battleship. The problem is that victory is accomplished so soon after the achievement that the unit is more for bragging rights, than anything else.

Another feature that I feel is lacking, is the ability to determine which star system would be more advantageous to colonize. Giving a scout ship the ability to obtain vital information about a star system, such as hammer, health, happiness, and food potential should be one of the top priorities for future updates. Also, there needs be a management screen for each planet, rather than just one for the entire system.

The value system just doesn't work the way it is supposed to. All of the Value technologies are obtained by different civilizations at nearly the same time, which puts everyone at odds with each other. Consequently, there is never enough time to spread your values to rival star systems, which makes them pointless, unless the creator intended for everyone to be at war with each other. I believe, "Value" technologies need to be spaced out more in order to prevent universal conflict. Besides, if the player wanted "always war" they could just check that in the setup window.

In addition to the above, I feel that the Pirate Civilization is just an annoyance in the late game. All they ever send is destroyers and planetary defense ships, which to me is just like swatting flies. I feel that if the creator beefed them up a bit, the game would become much more challenging and rewarding in the late stage. Let them send battleships and carriers loaded up with fighter and bomber squadrons along with the destroyers! I feel it is a necessity, because the other civilizations are never able to send a real army, because the game is already won, before that happens. The victory conditions are met way too early to allow any kind of real military conflict, which is disappointing.

Another feature that I think would help the module, is creating a greater variety of weapons for your military ships, like missiles and plasma weapons for example. Of course, adding new animations for each weapon type would be required.

The trading game needs to be more than just swapping technologies with rival civilizations. I think some sort of Galactic Exchange would be a neat feature to include in the module. Civilizations could use freight ships to haul valuable resources to the exchange and sell them for a boost in economy. Allowing civilizations to purchase resources for a steep price would add a new element to the module that would allow everyone to compete on a new level. Civilizations that are caught in a sector of space that is resource poor, could still offer serious competition. With a Galactic Exchange feature, the trading game could open up a whole new element of play. Escort ships would need to be sent along each trade route in order to protect the investment, because pirates and rival civilizations would try to interrupt that part of your commerce.

There needs to be some sort of write-up on how to get things going for the newbie. A tutorial that walks the player through the crucial initial techs that are required to develop and sustain a viable economy, military, and espionage network would be a great help. I had to figure everything out on my own, which was a lot of fun, but not everyone will want to do that. Maybe someone could start a "Final Frontier Game" thread that includes screenshots, explanations, and strategy discussions. I, for one, would be interested in the information!

It is true that the module needs some work, but it is still a great deal of fun. In one session, I was the most powerful civ in the late game and I was building up a massive force to go for a conquest victory when I noticed they were all working on a doomsday weapon! I thought ok, they are going to nuke me, so I switched to researching and building the United Planets thinking that my friendly relations with other civs and my enormous population would seal a victory or at least allow me to pass a non-proliferation resolution. Not so! They all voted for the most competitive AI civ and he won the vote by a small margin! Ugghh, not good! So, I ended up having to go for the Ascension victory, while they were all building nukes. In the end, my superior production won the day, but it was an exciting finale to be sure. I am surprised, however, that they never called for a diplomatic victory resolution to be voted on. Strange!

In another game, I experimented with the world builder and put a resource rich asteroid field near my capital to see what would happen. I then built 8 Construction Ships and just let them go to work on their own and they went nuts! They covered my territory with an intricate web of warp/jump lanes that made it incredibly fast to traverse the vastness of space between my star systems. What I thought was hilarious, was in the late game a Pirate Ship would destroy part of the transportation network and after I blasted it out of the sky, all 8 workers would rush to fix the network! They charged into action with a battlecry, "Must be preteeey!" It was so funny!


Here's a Screenshot.

Anyway, I really enjoyed this module and it has a huge potential to be one of the best ever made for Civ4. If you haven't got around to trying it yet, you simply must check it out. It takes a while to develop a good strategy, because you have to learn a new way of doing things, but that's half the fun. Cheers!

***Begin Edit***
In the "World Builder", there are a great deal of icons and terrain options that should not be available in a space themed mod and some do not even work when they should.

Currently, there is no compelling reason to ally with anyone, but if the Pirates were truly a menace to be feared and respected, I feel diplomacy would become a greater factor in game-play. I think that if the tech tree was expanded upon, more units, buildings, and wonders were added, the AI was given an overhaul, and the Pirates were given more powerful ships, the module would be a smash hit.
***End Edit***
 
I'm still playing my first game of Final Frontier, but I agree with many of your assessments. One thing I was disappointed on was the lack of wonders. There are only one or two, if I recall correctly. Still, maybe this mod can serve as a solid foundation for a fan created mod or scenario that expands and improves on it.
 
They should have put Final Frontier into the epic game. The space map would have been our Solar System which would slowly open up to you with the discovery of satellites. Then there will be a new race of exploration, colonization and mining in the solar system before the actual Alpha Centauri spaceship is launched. A wasted opportunity... :(
 
They should have put Final Frontier into the epic game. The space map would have been our Solar System which would slowly open up to you with the discovery of satellites. Then there will be a new race of exploration, colonization and mining in the solar system before the actual Alpha Centauri spaceship is launched. A wasted opportunity... :(

I don't really care but a lot of the fans would have been pissed if Final Frontier was added to the end. A lot of people think of this game as a history simulator and Final Frontier is just too sci-fi for them. It wouldn't have worked. People can't even get over the fact that Hitler will never be a leader in any WW2 scenario created by Firaxis.

NextWar would have been the natural progression of things but I remember people complaining about those mechs when they showed up in the first screenshots: "Oh that better not be in the epic game! That's so dumb."
 
I'm still playing my first game of Final Frontier, but I agree with many of your assessments. One thing I was disappointed on was the lack of wonders. There are only one or two, if I recall correctly. Still, maybe this mod can serve as a solid foundation for a fan created mod or scenario that expands and improves on it.
I agree. Now that I think about it, I only remember the United Planets and a temple of some sort. The Astral Gates could be considered a wonder, but they are only used for an Ascension Victory, so they don't count.

I think it would be awesome if mod-creators would finish and expand "Final Frontier" to be a more complete experience. I had a great time playing the way it is now, so I can only imagine how cool it would be after it has been given proper attention.


They should have put Final Frontier into the epic game. The space map would have been our Solar System which would slowly open up to you with the discovery of satellites. Then there will be a new race of exploration, colonization and mining in the solar system before the actual Alpha Centauri spaceship is launched. A wasted opportunity... :(
This is a neat idea, as long as the planet you just left, namely Earth, is forgotten or lost, as per the Final Frontier's theme. Or maybe Earth should be made into a non-competitive civilization to be used as a Galactic Exchange.


I don't really care but a lot of the fans would have been pissed if Final Frontier was added to the end. A lot of people think of this game as a history simulator and Final Frontier is just too sci-fi for them. It wouldn't have worked. People can't even get over the fact that Hitler will never be a leader in any WW2 scenario created by Firaxis.

NextWar would have been the natural progression of things but I remember people complaining about those mechs when they showed up in the first screenshots: "Oh that better not be in the epic game! That's so dumb."
I do not believe space travel is that far off from reality. The reason we do not explore the solar system now, is because the Earth's population does not support the effort. They all have more important things to worry about and do not want to spend the huge amount of resources the project would require.

Here's an excerpt from a research project that I worked on a few months ago. The study was inspired by the game "Spore".
Arthur C. Clarke wrote: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Before 1903, very few people believed that man would ever fly, but 66 years later, we walked on the moon. This event would seem like magic to anyone living before or during the turn of that century.

First there was "Newton's Law of Gravity", which was proven wrong by Einstein with his "General Theory of Relativity". Gravity is not a force, but rather the consequence of a warped space-time dimension. It is only a matter of time before someone proves that the speed of light is no longer a barrier to interstellar travel, a loop hole if you will. In fact, there have been some amazing breakthrough developments in recent history, with regard to that topic.

Maybe an option could be provided, so that the player could choose whether they wanted to continue on with the "Final Frontier" mod, after the end of a regular civilization game, so as to not ruffle anyone's sensibility.


Lots of good points.I think this scenario could be amazing if they keep working at it.
I agree, completely. I hope the creator does not abandon this module, because it has such a huge potential.
 
The module really needs some work, but the tileset and solar systems give a very good foundation to new mods based on it. Decent low-poly spaceships aren't that hard to model and with all the resources available withing the modding community we should see an amazing 4X game soon.
 
I think another thread asked for Final Frontier to be added to the end of the epic game, it was deemed not possible, basically due to the fact that FF is a huge modification to the standard game, it is another game in itself.

Somehow you'd have to tie what you've done in the epic game into what happens in FF, the possibilities are endless and you'd probalby end up with a mod that was very complicated.

Even call to power attempted to give some spacial options, but they were still planet-bound in truth.

From what I hear Spore is goign to change that, but again the suggestions are that each "Era" in Spore has no or little relation to the previous Era (probably to cut down on the programmers having to cope with every possible result of that previous Era)

I reckon the epic and the FF mod are never going to be joined, although I agree it would be an interesting possibility.
 
Hamarabi do you mind if I ask what settings you played with? The first game I played the star systems were very spread out. Did you play with some non-default options?

Thanks
 
Would someone please post a few guides for playing final frontier. It would help me get started as I am totally lost right now.

stwils
 
Hamarabi do you mind if I ask what settings you played with? The first game I played the star systems were very spread out. Did you play with some non-default options?

Thanks

First, the screenshot was zoomed out all the way and that might have something to do with it, but to answer your question, I went with a single player custom game on warlord difficulty and a large map on epic speed, then only allowed 8 civilizations instead of 9. I didn't want to see a duplicate civlization and since there are only 8 available, changing the default number for that map size was necessary. Everything else was left at the default setting. I played through several times before I got this map, more often than not I was surrounded by Radiation Clouds, Black Holes and Supernovas, so I guess I just got lucky.

You could speed up the luck factor by taking a peak with the world builder and then regenerating the map if you had to.




Would someone please post a few guides for playing final frontier. It would help me get started as I am totally lost right now.

stwils

I have a check-up doctor appointment in about an hour, so I don't have time right now, but I could try to post something half-way presentable later today. I can't promise anything, but I will certainly try. Also, I do not claim to know everything or even close. There are certain features that I still do not understand.

The module really needs some work, but the tileset and solar systems give a very good foundation to new mods based on it. Decent low-poly spaceships aren't that hard to model and with all the resources available withing the modding community we should see an amazing 4X game soon.

I think you are right. This mod does offer the ground work needed for the community to create some great off-shoots.

Well the scenario isn't perfect, but then no body's perfect.

To sum my impression up in one sentence:

IT ROCKS! Thank you, Firaxis! :goodjob:

You said it! I agree!

From what I hear Spore is goign to change that, but again the suggestions are that each "Era" in Spore has no or little relation to the previous Era (probably to cut down on the programmers having to cope with every possible result of that previous Era)

Spore is going to be a great game and I can't wait!
 
I have a check-up doctor appointment in about an hour, so I don't have time right now, but I could try to post something half-way presentable later today. I can't promise anything, but I will certainly try. Also, I do not claim to know everything or even close. There are certain features that I still do not understand.




!

Hamarabi, that would be wonderful. I'd appreciate any help you can give me.

I am using the Demo for final frontier. I have ordered BTS from Amazon and should have it next week.

Thanks.
stwils
 
Hamarabi, that would be wonderful. I'd appreciate any help you can give me.

I am using the Demo for final frontier. I have ordered BTS from Amazon and should have it next week.

Thanks.
stwils
I am working on it now, but it will take a few hours. I want to provide some screenshots with explanations for the most important methods and choices that I take in a new game. I am no where near as good as aelf, Sisiutil, or some of the other guys that do this sort of thing, but I'll do the best I can.
 
Thank you.

stwils
Well, I have about four thousand words and 13 screenshots, so far. This is a lot bigger project than I thought it was going to be. :lol:

Can you believe that aelf, Sisiutil and some others do this on a regular basis? :eek: I have to hand it to those guys, that's for sure!

Anyway, I need to knock off for the night, but I'll work on this tomorrow and should be able to get something posted for your perusal by then.

Cheers!
 
My only problem with it is that on my computer the turns take way too long very early into the game. I don't know why, but I bet I'd enjoy it once I upgraded my computer.
 
My only problem with it is that on my computer the turns take way too long very early into the game. I don't know why, but I bet I'd enjoy it once I upgraded my computer.
What are the specs of your system?

I have an AMD X2 3600+ Brisbane, 2GB RAM, and a 256MB Geforce 7600GT video card and the turns take about 10 seconds or so on my system with larger maps. I think that's excruciatingly slow, to be honest, but I am not going to upgrade my computer for a few seconds. hehe
 
why play Final Frontier when I could be playing Galciv 2 DA ? Imho civ4 is much better than DA but when it comes to space...
 
Hamarabi, you're welcome to use this information. You've probably already found all these things anyway.

Planet Yields

Whether a planet has rings or a moon has no effect on its output. The colour of the star also has no effect.

All up there are seven different types of planets. Here are their respective outputs.



White 2f 0h 3c
Grey 0f 3h 3c
Dark Yellow 2f 2h 1c
Blue 0f 2h 5c
Earth 3f 1h 2c
Orange 1f 2h 3c
Light Yellow 1f 1h 6c

Note the White, Dark Yellow and Earth planets will always have a visible atmosphere around them.

The planet with the highest base food output for a star system and which is inside the 1-radius gets a +1:hammers: and +1:food: in addition to its normal output. This will be the planet that is worked first by default when the star system is colonised. Note that if a colony is created using worldbuilder this bonus does not get applied.

Planet size determines the population capacity of the planet. You should be able to tell by just looking at the planet. Capacity ranges from 1 to 3.
 
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