College Football In Season Thread

Alabama was only 3-for-14 on 3rd down in the national title game, but that's just because LSU's offense was so bad . . .

LSU was only 2-for-12, but that hardly seems worth mentioning, given how bad their offense was . . .
 
The super bowl isn't going to suck because it's a rematch. It's going to suck because nobody likes either of those teams.

The BCS should have just put Pittsburgh and Green Bay in the Super Bowl though, huh?
Okay, in fairness that was a cheap shot. I don't have any reason to pick on you, and I apologize. I didn't really mean to include you at all, it was just a convenient link. This whole bit is just really funny to me and it's difficult for me to contain myself.

But I think the BCS version of the Super Bowl would feature Green Bay vs. New England.

Green Bay has the head to head win over the Saints, both teams have a really bad loss and Green Bay has two fewer losses overall.

The Patriots have a Buffalo loss that they redeemed later, and a loss to inter-conference foe New York. The Pittsburgh loss is troubling, but Pittsburgh lost twice to Baltimore, and Baltimore (who I love) has bad losses to Tennessee, Jacksonville, Seattle and San Diego.

As we learned this year at the college level, bad losses are killers.

Finally, FWIW, I have heard local GB fans complaining about how unfair it is that their team did so well in the regular season but was denied a shot at the title due to one postseason loss . . .
 
The 49ers were 1-for-13 on third down. If you can only convert one of thirteen third downs, you're shut down.

Third down efficiency isnt the total indicator of 'shutting down an offense' it simply means they really sucked on third down. So they were making first downs on their first or second downs (or by penalty) instead of their third downs.

They had 328 yards on 57 plays. Thats an average of 5.75 yards per play. Thats simply not shutting an offense down by any metric.

It was the two crucial special teams turnovers that made the real difference in the game. Otherwise, SF wins the same way they won all thru the season: great defense and just enough offense to win a low scoring game.
 
Finally, FWIW, I have heard local GB fans complaining about how unfair it is that their team did so well in the regular season but was denied a shot at the title due to one postseason loss . . .

That's just bizarre. I live in Packers country (and was in a room full of Packers fans that day, and drove home to a house of Packers fans, and saw the statuses of dozens of Packers fans) and I didn't hear a single soul say anything like that. We were mostly just in shock over the performance of the team. No one complained about the loss at all.

Which no one should have. The Pack, Matthews, Rodgers, and Driver aside, just didn't play up to their potential at all.
 
You have to remember that I live in college football land. The people I heard complaining were probably cfb fans first and Packers fans second . . .
 
:dunno: I don't know them particularly well. I know they are Ohio State fans, so coupled with the Green Bay thing I presume them to be yankee transplants, but anything else would be total guesswork.

You do make a fine point that it is inane to attempt to apply one sport's postseason standard to a completely different sport, but these are to my knowledge fine people, and I saw no reason to abuse them in their moment of grief . . .

EDIT:
Chris Low said:
Experience could be an issue, but talent won’t.

He's referring to Alabama's receiving corps next year, but it could just as easily be applied to the whole team, or 2010's team, for that matter . . .
 
The 49ers were 1-for-13 on third down. If you can only convert one of thirteen third downs, you're shut down.

We didn't lose on 3rd down; we lost on 1st and 2nd down. I can recall one, maybe two of those 3rd downs being 3rd and manageable. Most of them were 3rd and 8 or 3rd and 9, and it's hard to covert 3rd and longs without a passing game :p. Also Mobby's got it down. That ball doesn't bounce off Williams's knee and the Niners win 17-10.
 
As we learned this year at the college level, bad losses are killers.

How did you think we learned this?

The team with the most infamous "bad loss" went and won the Fiesta Bowl. Oregon, who was often criticized for having a "worse" loss to LSU when they were a title contender, won the Rose Bowl. Even teams with transparently bad losses in the regular season like Michigan State and West Virginia won big bowl games.

The eye-test of how a team looked in a so-called bad loss did not really define postseason success.

"Bad losses" also did not particularly hurt teams in the BCS computer rankings either.

I get the teasing about how the BCS would have created a different Super Bowl matchup is a bit harsh to supporters of the BCS or people pleased with the results of their team's season, but we've not really learned about why postseason playoffs don't work or anything like that.
 
"Bad losses" also did not particularly hurt teams in the BCS computer rankings either.

Apparently you dont consider being knocked out of consideration of playing in the BCS championshp as being particularly hurt?

Interesting.
 
What I meant was that bad losses were killers in the college system, as the teams you mentioned discovered: All were selected to worse bowls than they would have been if they did not have the bad losses, and all were successful against the inferior opposition -- compared to the opposition they would have faced if they did not give up the bad losses -- that they faced in those bowls .

The post you quoted from was guessing at which two teams the BCS would have matched up from the NFL, so I was pointing out that Baltimore's bad losses would have kept them out of the NFL BCS title game just as OSU's bad loss to ISU kept them out of the college BCS title game.

But I wasn't really advocating that the BCS should be applied to the NFL. The NFL only has two conferences to deal with, and considering the smaller number of teams and larger number of games played there is a lot more concrete data to refer to. The BCS wouldn't make any more sense in the NFL than playoffs would in college :dunno:

Finally, I feel I should point out that my opposition to a college playoff is not a result of my Alabama, SEC West, or SEC fandom, but rather my college football fandom. It is my belief that a playoff, whether four, six, eight, sixteen, or whatever number of teams are involved would result in an even greater SEC postseason presence than we have now with a two-team playoff, just as the current two-team playoff format has increased the SEC's postseason presence relative to when we did not have a 1v2 game at the end of every season. This would be bad for college football.

The more opportunities you give the SEC to play, the more games they are going to win. The solution to this is not changing the system, but rather improving the quality of play in the other conferences, which will eventually happen, I promise you.

Of course -- as you are no doubt aware from having read all my posts -- personally I'm a fan of the 'play-in' model that would allow a third team to compete, but I don't think the 'plus one' model, which is basically a four team playoff, would yield any better result for the sport than the current 1v2 model. OTOH, I don't think it would be any worse either, so I'm fine if it passes. My concern would be that people would look at that lack of improvement and say "Oh, we haven't gone far enough" rather than saying "Oh, perhaps we're traveling down the wrong road here", and wind up expanding the field to eight or sixteen teams, which would be catastrophic to the regular season . . .
 
Apparently you dont consider being knocked out of consideration of playing in the BCS championshp as being particularly hurt?

The computers clearly didn't do that this year, if you hadn't noticed. Nor were they really responsible for silly things like getting both Virginia Tech and Michigan into the BCS. It was the human polls and their 'eye tests' that elevated certain teams in the rankings, plus the BCS selection rules that could leave teams out.

What I meant was that bad losses were killers in the college system, as the teams you mentioned discovered: All were selected to worse bowls than they would have been if they did not have the bad losses

This is still entirely not true - where are you getting your examples? Oregon won its Rose Bowl spot by conference affiliation, regardless of how "bad" their losses were that wouldn't have changed. Likewise, Michigan/Michigan State and West Virginia would not have gone to "better bowls" unless they'd had better records or been undefeated entirely. It's questionable that the polls would even have selected Stanford or OK State, the remaining BCS teams mentioned, as number two if you thought they had a "normal" loss instead of a "bad" loss. Having a "bad loss" during the regular season simply did not define postseason performance in any way by any examples you've provided
 
The teams that you mentioned in your post that you considered to have bad losses were Okie State, Oregon, Michigan State and WVU.

The team that I was referring to in the post you were replying to was Okie State, which certainly would have played for the national title if they had not had their bad loss.

I'm not sure I would consider Oregon's loss to LSU a 'bad' loss, but since you do I still feel comfortable that Oregon would have played in the national title game if not for that loss.

Michigan State had bad losses to both Notre Dame and Nebraska, and while you are correct in pointing out that even if they did not have those losses they still would not have made the Rose Bowl, their chances of getting in to the Capital One ahead of Nebraska would have been much greater.

WVU is a fair point. Since their bad losses did not prevent them from being the Big East BCS representative -- and there was no way they were going to the national title game -- they did as well as they could have done without beating LSU in the regular season.

Of course, all of this is pretty far afield from the original point that Baltimore's bad losses to Tennessee, Jacksonville, Seattle and San Diego would have prevented them from being selected to the NFL BCS, but at least you're excited about college football :goodjob:

Finally, Stanford hadn't actually been mentioned. But since you brought them up, if they hadn't lost to Oregon, they would have been undefeated and certainly played in the BCS title game. I'm not sure why you consider the Oregon loss to be a 'bad loss', but again, Stanford would have fared much better without it . . .
 
Okie State, which certainly would have played for the national title if they had not had their bad loss.

I highly doubt you actually believe this and I think you know it too.

If Oklahoma State had beaten Iowa State and instead lost to, say, Texas A&M by ~3 points you would completely agree they should have been in the title game and not Alabama? No longer having a dreaded "bad loss" to such a "bad team" would have been the only final difference maker?

True, I also disagree with your assessment of NFL teams and how they would be hypothetically ranked; I don't think this "bad loss" idea would matter. There's no evidence in college football that the idea of a "bad loss" ever had much effect in rankings or performance, nor is there a reason it should, and I think that applies to the NFL and other sports to a similar extent.

Of course, it seems to me you're the only one who really brought it up here, it's sort of on you to define what you've been meaning this whole time by a "bad loss" - I haven't been trying to define the concept myself. I've been taking your idea of a "bad loss" opposed to a "normal loss" as something like losing to an unranked team or any blowout loss.

Clearly, looking at past BCS championships alone, not even other bowls or rankings, teams with a "bad loss" got in and even won multiple times.

In 2007 LSU had a "bad loss" to an unranked team while some other contenders did not, but they made it into the title game.

In 2006 instead of a Michigan-Ohio State rematch Florida got into the championship when they clearly had a "worse loss" during the regular season.

In 2003 USC had the closest, not-so-bad loss of the top three teams, on the road in multiple overtimes, but they were left out.

In 2001 Nebraska had a bad blowout loss at the end of the regular season and, surprise, played in the championship game.

So in past BCS championships alone, ranking teams by whether they had a "bad loss" doesn't seem informative, at all. Even the traditional wisdom about the timing of a loss makes far more sense. It actually seems a large proportion of the BCS championship participants that weren't undefeated would be in controversy over your idea of a bad loss.

If decisions by the polls and the bowl system had actually been made with some "bad loss" criteria there's no good indication it would have worked for the best n the past either, as teams which could have been ruled out from being in the championship game both won and lost.

There's also been no reason given why the concept of the "bad loss" should be considered over other factors in the general resume like strength of schedule, conference strength and accomplishment.

Really from all sources the talk of "bad loss" seemed much more like an excuse for other deciding factors this year. Sure, I'd be open to hearing your case for why another team would have been ranked #2 in the polls and not Alabama if they'd only had a "normal loss" instead of a "bad loss." Or even a case for teams lower down in the polls and how they might have fared. I doubt any of that would have happened because of the other real reasons at play but it's plausible if you had an argument for it.
 
I highly doubt you actually believe this and I think you know it too.
No, I'm pretty sure that if there were any remotely viable alternative, we would not have seen the Alabama/LSU rematch. Also recall that I am on record in this thread opposing the rematch before Alabama/LSU I, again before the national title game, and still again after Alabama won.
If Oklahoma State had beaten Iowa State and instead lost to, say, Texas A&M by ~3 points you would completely agree they should have been in the title game and not Alabama? No longer having a dreaded "bad loss" to such a "bad team" would have been the only final difference maker?
Yes, I think this is fairly clear. The argument -- as I have always understood it -- was that there was one undefeated team that deserved inclusion and two one-loss teams, neither of which deserved inclusion. Since someone had to show up and play the deserving team, it made more sense to send the team that lost to the #1 team by three points in OT than the team that lost to a 6-6 team by three points in OT. Any other alternative would have been preferable, but all the other teams played themselves out of contention.
True, I also disagree with your assessment of NFL teams and how they would be hypothetically ranked; I don't think this "bad loss" idea would matter. There's no evidence in college football that the idea of a "bad loss" ever had much effect in rankings or performance, nor is there a reason it should, and I think that applies to the NFL and other sports to a similar extent.
Okie State's bad loss kept them out of the national title game this year, so bad losses in CFB are pretty important. Bad losses don't matter in sports where the regular season is a preamble, which was my point in the post you originally replied to.
Of course, it seems to me you're the only one who really brought it up here, it's sort of on you to define what you've been meaning this whole time by a "bad loss" - I haven't been trying to define the concept myself. I've been taking your idea of a "bad loss" opposed to a "normal loss" as something like losing to an unranked team or any blowout loss.
I'm flattered, but no, I did not create the idea of the 'bad loss'. Applying conventional wisdom, a 'bad loss' is an aberrant loss. If you're trying to stake your claim on a national title berth, and have played accordingly all season, then you lay an egg vs. an in-conference cellar dweller, that's a bad loss. If you're vying for a return to prominence, and get beat down by your in-state rival, that's a bad loss. If you're shooting for your first bowl berth in how ever many years and drop a late season game to a non-AQ team, that's a bad loss. It's a relative thing, so if you're trying to break the game down into ones and zeroes, it's not going to make any sense to you.
Clearly, looking at past BCS championships alone, not even other bowls or rankings, teams with a "bad loss" got in and even won multiple times.
I'm sleepy and I'm not sure you're truly interested in learning, so I'm not going to research now, especially considering that you chose not to reply to the research above. I reserve the right to research in the future however, so don't get too comfortable.
So in past BCS championships alone, ranking teams by whether they had a "bad loss" doesn't seem informative, at all. Even the traditional wisdom about the timing of a loss makes far more sense. It actually seems a large proportion of the BCS championship participants that weren't undefeated would be in controversy over your idea of a bad loss.
See what I mean? You took one offhand remark about how Baltimore wouldn't have fared well in this year's NFL BCS based on how OSU fared in this year's college BCS, and now you're trying to apply it backwards through past years without, by your own admission, even understanding the criteria being applied.
Really from all sources the talk of "bad loss" seemed much more like an excuse for other deciding factors this year. Sure, I'd be open to hearing your case for why another team would have been ranked #2 in the polls and not Alabama if they'd only had a "normal loss" instead of a "bad loss." Or even a case for teams lower down in the polls and how they might have fared. I doubt any of that would have happened because of the other real reasons at play but it's plausible if you had an argument for it.
Well, I mean, out here in the real world bad losses are just bad losses, and have always been a part of sport. If Okie State had dropped a three point OT loss to TATM and then won out, I don't think they would have had too much trouble winning a BCS title berth over Alabama, but I think it might perhaps be more helpful if you first share with me these 'real reasons' that Alabama was included over Okie State. Are there any tin foil hats involved? Tiny humanoids with skin colors in shades of grey to green? Just curious . . .
 
What's wrong with college football. (It doesn't make sense unless you watch the embedded video.)

The price of the SEC's new 25 signee limit. Good or bad? I tend to agree with Taylor's guardian:

“If you look back on it, you see that it was a numbers game [with scholarships], that Alabama really wanted to sit out because of the numbers,” Pritchett said. “It kind of makes you mad, but you also feel good that he didn’t go there. Because if he had gone to Alabama, he would’ve probably just have been another number.”

@MB: What happened with Arkansas? Top 5 finish and only two 4 stars? Petrino has historically had no trouble coaching them up, but it seems like y'all could use a quality recruiter . . .
 
Miami STILL has a top 10 recruiting class. Who the hell is advising these guys?
 
Top Bottom