So sick of being screwed by starting position

Smokeybear said:

Mods: I also use 'Maps - Rotate Start Position (v.7)', from the Steam Workshop.

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I looked for this but could not find it.

HazyAK said:

I looked for this but could not find it.

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Search engines can be quirky. If you're in the steam workshop mods window, try searching on just 'rotate' and see what comes up. With searches, less can often be more. That full name is how it's shown in my ingame mods listing, but that might not be how it's named in their database.

I find it odd that so many people feel entitled to having resources within a capital's backyard so they can do their four-city tradition empire or, better yet, their one-city empire. Don't get me wrong, if that's how folks want to play, more power to them, but sprinkled throughout this thread--even in the tilte itself--there seems to be actual anger at the game's design for "screwing" the player by not planting resources within easy reach. Isn't Civ supposed to incentivize exploration and expansion?

I think its realism -- not a lot of civilizations ended up developing and growing someplace that there wasn't a compelling reason to settle there. Hence they show up near rivers, bays, natural resources, luxury resources, etc.

steveg700 said:

I find it odd that so many people feel entitled to having resources within a capital's backyard so they can do their four-city tradition empire or, better yet, their one-city empire. Don't get me wrong, if that's how folks want to play, more power to them, but sprinkled throughout this thread--even in the tilte itself--there seems to be actual anger at the game's design for "screwing" the player by not planting resources within easy reach. Isn't Civ supposed to incentivize exploration and expansion?

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I don't feel "entitled" I just find it ridiculous that the 5 AI who all start surrounding me have every resource at their disposal but I always have none.

In some games it seems there are no important oil or iron resources in the entire European continent when I play the Earth map. It's just very frustrating. That's why I went to the small islands map, this way there are many little islands with resources I can go seek out that are undiscovered.

Vintage Port said:

My current OCC - no horses or iron. Yeah thats awesome.

Could use the resources to sell off and get a bit more $$$.

I better have both oil and aluminum or I will snap.

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This is the aggravation I run into almost every game on most map types. I don't have horses or iron, okay but then later on I find out no oil or aluminum. By that point I just quit out of frustration.

You always get the resources you don't want, but never the ones you do. Case in point, I had a domination game where I got a measly 4 oil for my airforce, but 32 coal >.>.

At the risk of sounding like I'm tooting my own horn - If you're frustrated with the starting positions from a default game try my mod. It allows you to do all kind of things to change your start.

So after pontificating about having to learn to trade your way around lack of resources, I start a game on small continents.

I get a continent shared with a CS.

I get one source of iron.

Some horses.

No coal.

No oil.

No aluminium.

And no uranium.

Aaaargh!!!!

Solution is to invade the AI's lands for resources. Doesn't matter who they are, just invade. Failing that, pick a "Legendary" distribution of the resources in advanced set up before you start a game.

I just play on standard. XD

Callonia said:

Solution is to invade the AI's lands for resources.

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I usually play as Japan and have run through entire games with no ready iron. That sucks.

Through trading, puppets, CS politics and non-resource dependent units on defense, I've found that rarely do I face any resource shortfall that high pop can't ultimately counter. Beyond that it's about accurate intelligence and planning for future needs.

The only resource gap that really screws me later is aluminum. But as with iron, the key there is tech advancement. It's easier to secure useful metal supplies when their current owners aren't remotely aware of how valuable they are, and would gladfully trade them off for a few casks of wine.

In my last game (caveat: Prince/Continents), I had virtually no iron. I rolled into electricity a good century or two ahead of everyone else, and found no aluminum at all within my expansive coastal borders. Nearest deposit was near the Celt's eastern border, so I quickly threw a settler out there and founded my fourth city, pissing off the Celts. About 15-20 turns later she DOWed me and threw a bunch of Riflemen at my high pop northern city, to be met by artillery and gatling guns. Meanwhile, two rocket artilleries (recently upgraded from artillery with the aluminum) and a modern infantry unit hit her southern capital city HARD. I took her two biggest cities fast and China took the rest of the Celtic nation shortly after. Since technically I was attacked, no diplo penalties to speak of. I went on to win a science victory in 1990 in a final sprint against Persia.

It may be different at higher levels. But so far for me it's just been a matter of working the tech tree around resource gaps and scheming to get what I need when I need it. It's like, you can hold onto that iron for now. When I need it, I know where it is.

(My Civ gameplay strategy guide: Foundation, by Isaac Asimov.)

steveg700 said:

I find it odd that so many people feel entitled to having resources within a capital's backyard so they can do their four-city tradition empire or, better yet, their one-city empire. Don't get me wrong, if that's how folks want to play, more power to them, but sprinkled throughout this thread--even in the tilte itself--there seems to be actual anger at the game's design for "screwing" the player by not planting resources within easy reach. Isn't Civ supposed to incentivize exploration and expansion?

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It can be frustrating to eat up a huge chunk of land and have no resources and yet you see the AIs conveniently have tons of the resource(because they can see it ahead of time), yes. This is (part of) why Swordsmen suck.

Light Cleric said:

It can be frustrating to eat up a huge chunk of land and have no resources and yet you see the AIs conveniently have tons of the resource(because they can see it ahead of time), yes. This is (part of) why Swordsmen suck.

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You are correct. In my current game I'm first in land, 4 cities and 1 puppet so far (took over another AIs capital) and just researched Industrialization. I'm the only Civ without coal. I'm not a happy camper lol. Looks like it is time for more war'ing, need more land.

But basically, I just like to vent and complain that I wasn't handed everything at the start of the game

I love playing on the Earth map, but it must be broken... sometimes entire continents have no resources. No oil in all of Europe, or all of Africa, for example. It doesn't make sense. The default resource distribution is broken on that map, and it's my favorite.

Bad starting position is also a stimulus to explore, expand and conquer right?

ssnitrousoxide said:

Bad starting position is also a stimulus to explore, expand and conquer right?

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Or stagnate while you get rolled over by runaway neighbors with 10x the resources and units and then cuss and reroll.