Bug Thread for Latest Version of WHoC

Ah79 A ton of issues:

Breeding pit building mislabeled hunting lodge.
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Tech High Magic should require Tech Magical Talent (and Ancient Lore).
Tech Dark Magic should require Tech Magical Talent (and Ancient Lore)
Tech Mysteries of Athel Loren should require Tech Magical Talent (and Nature Lore)

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Units that need tech changes.
[all college/elven mages will need their wonder requirements added once the wonders exist. College mages and elven hedgewizards/adepts should require the appropriate tower/wonder. College archmages and elven mages/archmages should NOT.]
Building requirements for upgrades is a bad idea, it is just annoying micromanagement and hard for the AI.

Adept. Should require High Magic tech.
Archmage unit should require Arcane Lore tech (not magical talent), should not require coven building.
Mage unit. Should require High Magic tech and Literacy tech (not magical talent tech). Should not require coven building.
etc. for other elven casters (dark magic, mysteries of athel loren. Only difference is that wood elf mage should need tracking, not literacy.)

Militia swordsmen (and all UUs) should require Tactics and iron working, not feudalism and iron working. Should not require barracks.
Militia spearmen (and UUs) should require Feudalism and tactics, not just feudalism. Should not require barracks.

Axeman warband (and all UUs) should require Warfare tech and bronze working tech. Should not require barracks.

Ballista (and UUs) should require Intention tech.

There are 2 copies of Band of Shades. one should be removed. (One seems to be the Ranger unit class??)

Bloodletters should be strength 9, not 9/19.

Cannon should require Cannons tech.

Cavalry should not require archery tech. If you want a second tech requirement, add stirrups. (Rifling and stirrups).

Chameleon skinks are mis-spelled "Chamelion".
They should be 4 strength +2 poison, not 3+2 poison. They should not be able to use metal weapons.

Chaos furies should not have +50% vs animals. They should require the aerie resource however.

Cold one knights should require horses, not "horses OR iron".

Dark pegasus riders should be strength 0 (aircraft), not 0/7. (I'm open to discussion on this if this was deliberate).
They should build 50% faster with Aerie resource.
They should not be +50% with animals.

Lancer (and all Lancer UUs) should require horse, not (horse or copper)

Dryad should be 6/5 not 6/7. should not be +50% vs animals.

Crossbow (and all UUs) should not be able to use metal weapons. Should require Invention and Advanced Archery tech, not just invention.
Pikemen (and all uus) should require Military tradition, as well as advanced smithing.

Red Dragon should require Aerie resource. Forest dragon should require Aerie resource (check other dragons too).

Giant eagle should be strength 0 (aircraft) not strength 0/7.
Should not be +50% vs animals.
Similar for other units in this slot.
Horsearcher (and UUs) should not require stables.
Knight (and UUs) should not require hippodrome (it can require stables).
Longbowmen (and UUs) should require Advanced Archery and Military tradition, not Invention.
Militia archer (and UUs) should require bowyers tech and tactics tech, not feudalism and archery.
Spearman warband (and UUS) should require warfare tech and crafting tech, not hunting and bronze working.
Silver Helms upgrade to dragon princes. Require stable not hippodrome.
Dragon princes require no building.
Treekin should require breeding grounds resource. Should not require breeding pit building (currently mislabled hunting lodge). And similar for the unit slot.
Treeman should require breeding grounds resource.
Warhawk riders should not require stirrups tech or archery tech or stables building. Should require aerie resource, tournaments tech and monster breeding tech.
I've probably missed plenty, but this is a good start.

I can make some of these (though probably not all) if someone points me towards the right file.

Another thought:
Is it possible to merge the "terrain attack" and "terrain defense" tags: are there "terrain strength" tags?

For example, rather than "-20% forest attack, -20% forest defense" we could just have "-20% forest strength".

The list of terrain modifiers on cavalry units is really just far too long, and is visually very unsightly. This change would halve it.

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not without SDK changes im afraid

So, as an alternative, can I suggest that the Horselord leader trait gives all shock cavalry and missile cavalry units a "Horselord" promotion, instead of the Mobility 1 promotion.

Horselord promotion could give +10% withdraw chance, +10% grassland attack and +10% plains attack. Or something similar.

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that sounds good. maybe also give them a minor flanking attack bonus on siege?

@ Nelia: i cant seem to replicate NH11 OR NH5. have you modded anything in your version? does anyone else get these errors too??

Ah79 A ton of issues:

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this is a good list of bugs Ahri. ill get stuck into them now


EDIT: done

not without SDK changes im afraid

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ok, no worries, not that important.

that sounds good. maybe also give them a minor flanking attack bonus on siege?

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Well, all shock cav units get this already, so that doesn't add much.

@ Nelia: i cant seem to replicate NH11 OR NH5. have you modded anything in your version? does anyone else get these errors too??

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See post 20. But I can't reproduce, and the bard seems fine to me too.

AH80
Ancient lore tech mis-spelled.

AH81
Racial buildings not yet implemented (eg "goblin population").

this is a good list of bugs Ahri. ill get stuck into them no

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Cool, that should significantly improve gameplay. Its hard to test warfare when you get cannons at construction tech

AH82
Playing as Estalia, I got a free Liche unit when I researched Ceremonial Burial tech.
The event should trigger on Eternal life tech (not ceremonial burial), and eternal life should be blocked for all factions except Sylvania, Khemri and Lhamia.

AH83
Gunpowder resource should be removed, we don't really need it as a strategic resource.
If we really want it, then rename it blackpowder and have it revealed by cannons tech, not alchemy.

I really worry that with too many excess resources (like rare herbs, etc.) that we will make the likelihood of main important resources too rare.

Psychic_Llamas said:

@ Nelia: i cant seem to replicate NH11 OR NH5. have you modded anything in your version? does anyone else get these errors too??

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that reminded me of these 3 techs that i deleted in that xml to get the game working with the era_end errors.

reinstalled everything now.... and i guess theres some problem on my end here.

i.e. after reinstall NH1 worked. there was no python error and i saw a list with effects... and NH2 showed 8 races with no python error (one was a pink square... humans i think).

then i restarted my pc and then i crashed to desktop at loading the mod with no error...

after another reinstall i get to the main menu again but with NH1 and NH2 python errors again...

i will try around a bit, i think i just completely remove civ4 and install it new.
there seems to be a bug goblin somewhere on my side.


so for now ignore all my bugs. (exept ahirman found them too)

I haven't checked to see if these bugs are repeats but:
>The game takes a while to initialize when loading a map. I found this strange as I have a pretty powerful comp.
>I like the new soundtrack, but there are a few complaints about it, I'll address those later.
>No audio when I zoomed in on the Empire city screen.
>Marauder gives nearly infinite XP when winning a battle.
>Audio:
>>Whilst I like the new songs, I fear they may be to distracting when actualy playing the game.
>>You might be pushing the copyright law a bit too far with some of the songs and there amount.
>>I love the Kingdom of Heaven soundtracks.
If you need more free music, here are three Total War mods with great soundtracks:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=84314
The mod is End of Days, alot of dramatic semi-apocalyptic music. The Satanae tracks work well with Chaos.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=129874
The mod is Arthurian Total War. It has alot of Brythonic, Gaelic, and Germanic music. Its really good.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=175545
The mod is Fourth Age: Total War, it basicaly is the Fourth Age of Middle Earth. The soundtrack is your typical fantasy soundtrack, but IIRC, all the music was produced free so no copyright infringment!

Its looking good guys!

Hey Ajidica, thanks for trying it out.

The loading is because of the huge amounts of graphics files, because we have those for both FF and Warhammer. It'll get better when we remove duplication, and then probably get worse as we start filling out the art for all the factions.

There's definitely something weird with XP awards that we will need to look into. XP awards for combat are too high, and bombardment should not give any XP (or if it does, a tiny fraction of 1 XP).

But gameplay features will mostly wait until we're a bit more completely implemented.

I love the Kingdom of Heaven soundtracks.
If you need more free music, here are three Total War mods with great soundtracks:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=84314
The mod is End of Days, alot of dramatic semi-apocalyptic music. The Satanae tracks work well with Chaos.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=129874
The mod is Arthurian Total War. It has alot of Brythonic, Gaelic, and Germanic music. Its really good.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=175545
The mod is Fourth Age: Total War, it basicaly is the Fourth Age of Middle Earth. The soundtrack is your typical fantasy soundtrack, but IIRC, all the music was produced free so no copyright infringment!

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Thanks a lot for the sound track suggestions Ill leave it up to Orlanth to do with these what he wants, i currently really like the sound track (with the eccception of a few tracks)

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No audio when I zoomed in on the Empire city screen.

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im not certain how to set up the music here. again, Orlanth, would you mind taking a look at this?

The game takes a while to initialize when loading a map.

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i dont have any problems here, What map script are you using? try using a basic 'Vanilla' Map script like continents or something.

Thanks, I was using Erebus mapscript.
Do I have permission to use a few of your soundtracks in my mod? (O fortuna comes to mind)
EDIT: I found the problem witht the lack of sound for the empire. THe Empire track is defined at AS2D_DIPLO_DEFAULT_PEACE or AS2D_DIPLO_EMPIRE_THEME, but that appears no where in leadhead infos. I didn't check what the empir tracks were defined as though.

Do I have permission to use a few of your soundtracks in my mod?

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i certainly don't have a problem with it but id let Orlanth have the final say here. im sure he wont mind though.

I found the problem witht the lack of sound for the empire.

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Yeh, i knew the music wasnt linked correctly but im not up for messing with sound files yet (it took me a day to get only the start menu music to work lol)

There are lots of messed up music tracks in the Leaderheads; we're working on a massive expansion of the LeaderHeadInfos file to get all ~53 leaders into the mods with some AI parameters, flavor values, etc.
At the moment all the leaders are identical.

Orlanth has done music, but I'm sure he'd be happy for you to use anything.

The civ diplo music is defined in leaderheadinfos, so when adding a leaderhead you just need to include that tag in the era sections under <DiplomacyMusicPeace> and <DiplomacyMusicWar>.

I've attached a reformatted Audio2Dscripts.XML to make adding the tracks easier. When making leaderheads xml, just need to include the appropriate tags from the list below. A few of the civs have different peace/war versions that can be put in <DiplomacyMusicPeace> and <DiplomacyMusicWar>.

Do I have permission to use a few of your soundtracks in my mod?

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Of course, but like most mods the music is a mishmash of various indie artists and film/game soundtracks, with a couple tracks I remixed in Audacity. Anyway most of them are pretty obscure so they'd probably be fine with it, since its much more likely for new potential fans to discover their music through hearing it than for an existing Hedningarna fan to repeatedly play the mod as a substitute for buying their CD. More importantly pretty much the entire Warhammer thing is a GW trademark lol, I'd guess they'd rather just turn a blind eye to most nonprofit fanmade content.

I'll see if I can figure out what you mean once I have the updated Leaderheads file from Alzara

I've attached a reformatted Audio2Dscripts.XML to make adding the tracks easier.

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fantastic thanks orlanth. im half way through uploading patch b so this will go into patch c for certain

I worry that with too many excess resources (like rare herbs, etc.) that we will make the likelihood of main important resources too rare

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Actually Ahriman thats not a concern at all, because of the way resources actually get placed. What most people don't know is they actually aren't involved in mapscripts at all, they get placed after map creation in specific customizable ways according to wide variety of criteria that are set in bonusinfos xml. For example in the first Wild Mana modmod I'd made, over a dozen of the FfH mana types are placed in such a way as to have absolutely no effect on any other resources, also using specialbonusinfos xml to make sure that there's exactly one mana subtype in a given moderate-radius region for fairness. The separate factor for starting region "normalization" honestly doesn't have much actual effect as you might think, and the quality of start locations IMHO was left too variable in vanilla Civ/FfH2 and can be improved on; the bNormalize tag can be used to make sure there's one powerful resource like grain or livestock in a starting BFC area. In Civ4 strategic resources like Uranium and the Wildmana Metamagic nodes (of lategame strategic importance) get dispersed using Modern resource type and the iUnique tag so that there's always one in each large-area radius, etc. Its complex how things actually get placed but the bottom line is we can easily add plenty of flavorful resources (either health/happy or not) that get placed in customizable ways and adjusted with playtesting.

Actually Ahriman thats not a concern at all

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Cool. I fully admit my ignorance of such things.

We can leave things for now and tweak relative probabilities later when we are doing more balancing and playtesting.

The most important issues are the relative commonality of bronze and iron, and then horses and dyes to a lesser extent, and then meteoric iron/warpstone.

Nonetheless, I'm not sure that we need a gunpowder (blackpowder) resoruce, but I don't feel strongly about it.

some issues have arisen with some units. ive been enabling the elven units as UUs for the 3 elven civs and find that certain units cause CTDs. see below:

Downloading now.. Wow that is one huge patch lol at 470MB! I wonder what could cause CTD at selection screen; I'd guess doublecheck that all the unitclass stuff and description text is correct in unitinfos and civilizationinfos, or search for any other difference between the crashing UUs and those that work correctly?