Warhammer and Civ 5: What are the plans?

This is a really *really* preemptive post so that we can discuss the release of Civ 5 and what it means for Warhammer.

Will we switch over to coding on that platform or stick with Civ 4?

What are your oppinions on Civ 5?

id like to keep this thread as theoretical discussion on anything civ 5 and warhammer related.

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Personally from the *Very* little ive seen regarding civ 5, it looks relaly good. the ranged combat and hexagonal map wil lchange combat significantly and could be quite fun. im interested to see how cities will work as well.

EDIT: It looks like Ahrimans wish for eliminating the unit stacks might come true, some theories of One Unit Per Tile are circulating, and i for one am excited by this idea!

I strongly think that we should push to get a Civ4 product up and worknig as rapidly as possible. Announcement of Civ5 will get a lot of people to fire up their copy of Civ4 again, and possibly look for new mod content.

Trying to create a Civ5 mod would basically mean startnig over from scratch, particularly if the game introduces significant changes to the combat system or the economy. Remember that our mod stands on the shoulders of *years* of mod coding by the FFH team and the FF team, and unit art from many sources. There's no way we could have got here by ourselves.

As to "one unit per tile", that seems like one person's totally random guess and wishful thinking. There's no evidence for this at all, other than the fact that in the screenshots there are several tiles that appear to have one unit on them each (though who knows, there aren't any flags in the screenshots or anything, so multiple unit icons might just have not been included).
But of course they put that in their screenshots; they want to show off several different units. That doesn't mean that you can't stack units.

I'm not sure it would even be good for design. That would be incredibly limiting, and very micro-management/frustrating. Imagine if you couldn't select multiple units at once, and had to individually shuffle a column of units through a narrow pass or something.

Overall on Civ5, I'd like to see some big changes, the Civ engine needs a shakeup. Culture, religions, and health have been the best innovations for Civ. Corporations and espionage were minor and don't add much to the game for me.
But we need something *really* new.

I think we should try to bang out a finished Civ4 version in the next couple months, focusing on straightforward stuff like quickly adding the civs & units which have already been designed, some usable magic (hopefully code could be mostly brought over from FfH2 or old WH), and resolving bugs. Once all the units and promotions XML are in I could try to bring over some of my Events/Invasions, and it should be a good game. True LOL it's definitely time to get this 4-year mod development cycle to a finish in the next few months. If we get it finished soon, lots of people will play and enjoy it, but it's definitely time to be getting this wrapped up.

I'm definitely interested in the possibilities for modding Civ5 will open up, tho it's too early to speculate or plan for Civ5 mods. I'd guess the first mods will begin to be planned after 3-6 months or so of playing with the actual Civ5 release.

It says they are emphasizing extensive moddability in the design which for me is more important than the game itself; if you look at the completed mods like FfH2, Planetfall, DuneWars (and soon, this mod!) they are arguably better than the actual game. They did say "religion will no longer be a factor" which is a big change; like Ahriman says most of the actual mechanics won't be clear until after release.

Another good TBS modding platform coming out this year will Stardock's Elemental; they are apparently focusing from the start on making it extensively moddable with virtually all aspects exposed to XML and python. I think it will also have strategic-level stack movement plus tactical-level combat, like Age of Wonders / Master of Magic etc which I think are great.

i definitely agree we need to pump this out asap. i still cant believe i've stuck around with this mod from start to *soon to be* finish. it will be an awesome feeling to actually finish the bugger hahaha

As to "one unit per tile", that seems like one person's totally random guess and wishful thinking. There's no evidence for this at all

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actually, there is evidence now: http://apolyton.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5753192&postcount=23

some it it could be poor translation from danish to english, but either way it seems stacking will be limited at the very least . even if it is limited to 1 per tile and if that is actually bad for game play we could mod the unit cap per tile to 5 or so.

My feeling is that this mod is awesome and stands totally seperate from any potential civ 5 mod. There are two seperate questions:

1: Should you keep going with this mod? IMO, yes. It's already a very good product (thanks guys!)with a dedicated following that has had a lot of effort put into it and is built on the efforts of the FFH team, furthermore, Civ 5 isn't even out yet, and as was mentioned, its release will cause people to dust oof Civ 4. Thus I feel that this mod is worth putting more effort into.

2: Once Civ 5 comes out, should you switch your focus to a Warhammer mod for that? Maybe. It all depends on the details of Civ 5 (do you really feel it is a significant improvement over Civ 4), how easily you could transfer stuff, whether the new release brings in more fans and modders, and a dozen other factors.

I think you guys have a great product here, and while I suspect that some of you may eventually migrate to go work on the inevitable Warhammer mod for Civ 5, that in no way takes away from the value of continuing your excellent work here until you do so (if you do).

Thanks again!

I am guessing that it will *not* be easy to transfer a design to a Civ5 mod. The combat design is totally different (with 1 unit per tile), so the stats for every unit in the game would need to be rethought. Also, we won't have the FFH/FF codebase, which allows us so many things that we wouldn't be capable of on our own, like spells.

It also sounds like specific Religions are gone from Civ5, which kinda sucks for any Fantasy mods.

considering that you have not finished up what you have started here, I won't say migrate into Civ 5, let another team do a Warhammer mod for Civ 5 while you guys finished your mod here. If you migrate, you will take forever, and after you got about alpha or beta like last time when a expansion released, you still talk forever to finish stuff up, you have not even reached beta from this game yet. so what I say is finished your mod for civ 4 players, and until you finished with your mod for Civ 4, you can migrate towards Civ 5 unless some other mod team started developing it. That is all I can say... since you have not even patch this game up since 2 or more months.

darkedone02 said:

considering that you have not finished up what you have started here, I won't say migrate into Civ 5, let another team do a Warhammer mod for Civ 5 while you guys finished your mod here. If you migrate, you will take forever, and after you got about alpha or beta like last time when a expansion released, you still talk forever to finish stuff up, you have not even reached beta from this game yet. so what I say is finished your mod for civ 4 players, and until you finished with your mod for Civ 4, you can migrate towards Civ 5 unless some other mod team started developing it. That is all I can say... since you have not even patch this game up since 2 or more months.

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/sign

this mod should be finished and then, if possible, ported to Civ5.
That way, i guess, it would be much easier to accoplish the porting part!

cheers and looking for updates

HahnHolio, Warhammer fan since 1987

Porting won't be possible; Civ5 will be a very different beast from Civ4. Different language (lua instead of python) entirely different combat system, many different mechanics.

It would have to be rebuilt from the ground up.

We're still hoping to get a good version of this up and running for Civ4 when PL has some time. Check in again in a couple of weeks.

I agree with Ahriman, Civ5 modding will be an entirely different world and the first ones probably won't get started for a year.

I can see how it's frustrating no progress is being made on this mod, since a lot has gone into it and it's actually so close to completion. It's too much to expect PL to complete it on his own after school finishes, he'll probably have his hands full with RL, the magic system and misc bug fixes.

I'm still willing to take on making all the Uprisings & Events, but the basic content of playable civs and units need to be in before this can happen. We do really need someone to start entering some more of the units in the design document into XML as soon as possible so more progress can start being made. Can any of the team members or any other volunteers help out with this even slightly?

orlanth said:

I agree with Ahriman, Civ5 modding will be an entirely different world and the first ones probably won't get started for a year.

I can see how it's frustrating no progress is being made on this mod, since a lot has gone into it and it's actually so close to completion. It's too much to expect PL to complete it on his own after school finishes, he'll probably have his hands full with RL, the magic system and misc bug fixes.

I'm still willing to take on making all the Uprisings & Events, but the basic content of playable civs and units need to be in before this can happen. We do really need someone to start entering some more of the units in the design document into XML as soon as possible so more progress can start being made. Can any of the team members or any other volunteers help out with this even slightly?

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I wanted to say that I wish the developers of the Civilization 3 Warhammer mod make another warhammer mod for civilization 5, or someone better.

We do really need someone to start entering some more of the units in the design document into XML as soon as possible so more progress can start being made. Can any of the team members or any other volunteers help out with this even slightly?

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I think we will have much more luck with getting help once we get an updated version out that is easy to install and actually *runs*, and fixes those worst bugs.

I'm still pretty locked timewise until I manage to get my dissertation defended, a few more months at least.

Ahriman said:

I think we will have much more luck with getting help once we get an updated version out that is easy to install and actually *runs*, and fixes those worst bugs.

I'm still pretty locked timewise until I manage to get my dissertation defended, a few more months at least.

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agreed...

2 things:

1) im finished my final exams and will hopefully graduate uni (i think i did well in the exams). this means im going to dig up what ive done on the mod and upload it as soon as possible. my sincerest apologies for the massive wait and thanks for *most* of your patience.

2) in response to the following:

considering that you have not finished up what you have started here, I won't say migrate into Civ 5, let another team do a Warhammer mod for Civ 5 while you guys finished your mod here. If you migrate, you will take forever, and after you got about alpha or beta like last time when a expansion released, you still talk forever to finish stuff up, you have not even reached beta from this game yet. so what I say is finished your mod for civ 4 players, and until you finished with your mod for Civ 4, you can migrate towards Civ 5 unless some other mod team started developing it. That is all I can say... since you have not even patch this game up since 2 or more months.

Click to expand...

I wanted to say that I wish the developers of the Civilization 3 Warhammer mod make another warhammer mod for civilization 5, or someone better.

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[RANT]
Darkedone, it is people like YOU that make me never want to mod again. if you think you know so much about modding you can finish it. Also, i do not appreciate your second statement and it personally offends me. I loved the warhammer mod for civ 3, i have striven to make something similar for civ 4 and according to you myself and the rest of the team have failed. I know for a fact i have limited modding skills. im a total n00b at it but do you see anyone "better" taking up the lead? no. have i stuck with it as best i could since it started? yes. You apparently forget that we all have lives off the computer, we have education, jobs, families and some of us have children. you cannot expect us to constantly mod and obviously do not realize we mod voluntarily, and so we can just as easily keep our mods to ourselves.
[/RANT]

Darkedone, quit Trolling and get back under your bridge.

Hey, good to have you back; and congrats on the exams & graduation!

If it helps out with any update I think the needed files for the themes error fix are in my post #149 in the top thread.

And I agree with the Rant, it's a little rich to complain about a free mod taking time to complete when you've never contributed any work & don't know what's involved.

BTW to save time uploading, I've started using Mega Manager
http://www.megaupload.com/?c=tools
which lets you just start an upload then leave & not babysit the computer.

Thanks Orlanth that Mega Manager looks like it will be a real time saver. im in the process of wrapping the next version up. i posted something in the team forum if you wouldnt mind taking a look.

Hey congrats on finishing up! Awesome news.

Agree with the rant.
Was going to post something similar, but I'm trying to cut back on my flaming these days ;-)
[Or save it for the Civ5 forum]

I'd say stick with CIV IV. It's currently a fully developped platform patch and add-on wise. You've worked for it already and there is a lot of experience floating around working with it. So i'd say, stick to Civ IV. ^_^

This mod looks good, its given me some great ideas for a mod for civ 5

Psychic_Llamas said:

2 things:
[RANT]
Darkedone, it is people like YOU that make me never want to mod again. if you think you know so much about modding you can finish it. Also, i do not appreciate your second statement and it personally offends me. I loved the warhammer mod for civ 3, i have striven to make something similar for civ 4 and according to you myself and the rest of the team have failed. I know for a fact i have limited modding skills. im a total n00b at it but do you see anyone "better" taking up the lead? no. have i stuck with it as best i could since it started? yes. You apparently forget that we all have lives off the computer, we have education, jobs, families and some of us have children. you cannot expect us to constantly mod and obviously do not realize we mod voluntarily, and so we can just as easily keep our mods to ourselves.
[/RANT]

Darkedone, quit Trolling and get back under your bridge.

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