Cromagnus
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2012
- Messages
- 2,272
Any thoughts? I'm trying to win on Deity with Suleiman, and really struggling. I recognize I could ignore his unique ability and play it safe until I have Janissaries, but I'd ideally like to actually *use* his ability. However, it seems to me the ability is just useless in the early game, and by the mid-game, redundant.
Now that Prize Ships is available to other civs through promotion (and don't get me started on the Dutch), starting with it on every melee ship seems so pointless. In the early game, capturing galleys or enemy triremes is sooo situational, at best. Even when it works out in your favor, it's a bad thing! Even a large number of triremes usually can't cap a city, and the 1/3 cost isn't enough to make up for how expensive it is to maintain them all.
My last game, I capped 3 barbarian galleys, and then got attacked by Alexander. This gave me a zero-diplomacy-hit justification for stealing his navy, which I do. I ended up, after promoting the galleys and the triremes I easily took from him, (always choosing the vs cities promotions) with 7 total units. After getting them all back to the capital to heal, which took forever, I cruise on over to his only coastal city. I get there, and of course it's only approachable from one sea tile. Because Triremes are melee, I'm basically sending them to their death. Each one attacks, maybe survives, then has to go allll the way back to my cities to heal. So I get to take 7 potshots on his city, and lo and behold it doesn't fall. Sure, I could have painstakingly marched my army over the hills to join in on the attack, but his army (on Deity) in the early game totally outmatches mine, especially because I've had to tech Sailing. And that army ain't cheap. That's where my point about the 1/3 cost comes in. It's still too expensive. In fact, next time, I'm probably going to start deleting half the ships I take.
(Oops, didn't realize I had switched forums, my bad!)
Now this was continents. So I tried an archipelago map. Well, in that case, the AI rushes for Great Lighthouse and Colossus, which hurts, and then nobody really attacks you during the early game. Attacking them in the early game successfully requires optics, yet another serious tech delay. It's bad enough to have to take Sailing. Plus, you're incurring the dreaded diplomacy hits if you actually do attack them.
Basically, in my opinion, by the time it's really of use, you can just build Privateers!!
Otherwise you're sitting around with an expensive useless navy during the early game that slowed down your tech progress in other important areas.
Essentially, triremes are inferior battering rams. So, you're really waiting until you can spawn caravels before his ability is of use.
Someone please point out the flaw in my logic. At least when triremes had a ranged attack, you could use them to take a city. But right now, you have to move troops over-land if you really want that city, because archer + city attack will pretty much take out a trireme in one round.
How does one pull off a barbarian navy rush with Suleiman? Or is it really just as useless as it seems?
Moderator Action: Moved to G&K.
Now that Prize Ships is available to other civs through promotion (and don't get me started on the Dutch), starting with it on every melee ship seems so pointless. In the early game, capturing galleys or enemy triremes is sooo situational, at best. Even when it works out in your favor, it's a bad thing! Even a large number of triremes usually can't cap a city, and the 1/3 cost isn't enough to make up for how expensive it is to maintain them all.
My last game, I capped 3 barbarian galleys, and then got attacked by Alexander. This gave me a zero-diplomacy-hit justification for stealing his navy, which I do. I ended up, after promoting the galleys and the triremes I easily took from him, (always choosing the vs cities promotions) with 7 total units. After getting them all back to the capital to heal, which took forever, I cruise on over to his only coastal city. I get there, and of course it's only approachable from one sea tile. Because Triremes are melee, I'm basically sending them to their death. Each one attacks, maybe survives, then has to go allll the way back to my cities to heal. So I get to take 7 potshots on his city, and lo and behold it doesn't fall. Sure, I could have painstakingly marched my army over the hills to join in on the attack, but his army (on Deity) in the early game totally outmatches mine, especially because I've had to tech Sailing. And that army ain't cheap. That's where my point about the 1/3 cost comes in. It's still too expensive. In fact, next time, I'm probably going to start deleting half the ships I take.
(Oops, didn't realize I had switched forums, my bad!)
Now this was continents. So I tried an archipelago map. Well, in that case, the AI rushes for Great Lighthouse and Colossus, which hurts, and then nobody really attacks you during the early game. Attacking them in the early game successfully requires optics, yet another serious tech delay. It's bad enough to have to take Sailing. Plus, you're incurring the dreaded diplomacy hits if you actually do attack them.
Basically, in my opinion, by the time it's really of use, you can just build Privateers!!
Otherwise you're sitting around with an expensive useless navy during the early game that slowed down your tech progress in other important areas.
Essentially, triremes are inferior battering rams. So, you're really waiting until you can spawn caravels before his ability is of use.
Someone please point out the flaw in my logic. At least when triremes had a ranged attack, you could use them to take a city. But right now, you have to move troops over-land if you really want that city, because archer + city attack will pretty much take out a trireme in one round.
How does one pull off a barbarian navy rush with Suleiman? Or is it really just as useless as it seems?
Moderator Action: Moved to G&K.
