MPP query

dalgo · Jul 2, 2014

I hardly ever use MPPs but in my current game I made one with the Maya. As expected that dragged me into war with their enemies, including Germany. Later in the game Germany asked for peace. I figured it wouldn't last, as soon as they attacked the Maya again the war would begin again - but they offered cash so I accepted.

To my surprise that broke the pact and Maya will no longer accept gpt deals. I thought an MPP was for 20 turns, is it that easy to cancel? In this case I wouldn't have accepted Germany's proposal if I'd know the result.

However I have often seen the AI do MPP deals with each other, and I've also seen them flip between peace and war in successive turns and I thought that was the effect of the MPP. Is there a guide to MPPs that I can look at?

Lanzelot · Jul 2, 2014

Yes, making peace with the Germans while the MPP with the Mayans is still active, breaks the MPP and therefore trashes your reputation. You first need to end the MPP (which is possible after 20 turns by just removing it from the "Active Deals" table in F4), before you can make peace with Germany.

The AI breaks deals all the time, and I think it doesn't affect their reputation. The AIs will still deal with each other anyway, at least it appears to me that way.

dominatr · Jul 3, 2014

I wouldn't make protection pacts with AI's.

The AI exist for purpose of economic exploitation and military conquest. No friendships with these fools are necessary.

Lanzelot · Jul 3, 2014

Sometimes it is necessary: in a recent game of mine, I wanted to take over Korea, which was rather small. But a few turns before my planned attack, Korea signed two MPPs with Persia and Babylon. I didn't want war with these two (for multiple reason, explaining which would lead us too far from the point here).

So what did I do? I also signed MPPs with Persia and Babylon. Then I declared war to Korea (note: this does not yet trigger Korea's MPPs with Persia and Babylon!!) and positioned a single worker on my border to Korea (but within my territory - this is important!). Surely enough, in the interturn a Korean unit came into my territory and captured the worker... And this triggered my MPPs with Persia and Babylon... :devil:

So I could take the Korean cities with impunity, and Persia and Babylon were even helping me...

tjs282 · Jul 3, 2014

Korea signed two MPPs with Persia and Babylon. *snip* So what did I do? I also signed MPPs with Persia and Babylon.

When I first got Civ3, I really liked the idea of MPPs. And then I learned -- slowly and painfully, but I learned -- what stupid backstabbing sons-of-guns the AICivs could be, and how my carefully constructed MPP webs would end up plunging the whole map into war, every single time. And coincidentally, back in the real world, I read up on WWI and its causes.

The quote above describes the only circumstances under which I will now sign MPPs -- only when I intend or expect to go to war anyway...

dominatr · Jul 3, 2014

Lanzelot said:
Sometimes it is necessary: in a recent game of mine, I wanted to take over Korea, which was rather small. But a few turns before my planned attack, Korea signed two MPPs with Persia and Babylon. I didn't want war with these two (for multiple reason, explaining which would lead us too far from the point here).

So what did I do? I also signed MPPs with Persia and Babylon. Then I declared war to Korea (note: this does not yet trigger Korea's MPPs with Persia and Babylon!!) and positioned a single worker on my border to Korea (but within my territory - this is important!). Surely enough, in the interturn a Korean unit came into my territory and captured the worker... And this triggered my MPPs with Persia and Babylon... So I could take the Korean cities with impunity, and Persia and Babylon were even helping me...

That is good trickery, but by the time MPPs are available in the game, my empires are generally large enough to take on multiple opponents. It might be a good idea to make tweaks in my mod to make MPPs available earlier to start the massive wars earlier in the game, no?

Lanzelot · Jul 4, 2014

dominatr said:
It might be a good idea to make tweaks in my mod to make MPPs available earlier to start the massive wars earlier in the game, no?

Hehe...

dominatr said:
That is good trickery, but by the time MPPs are available in the game, my empires are generally large enough to take on multiple opponents.

In this particular game, my empire would also have been able to handle all three of them. But I was still getting large gpt payments out of Persia and Babylon, in fact more than I could have earned when running their cities myself (these lands were so far away, that they would have been 99% corrupt for me), and the main reason: I was already close to the domination limit, but was playing for a 100K victory. The small Korean territory still fitted within the dom limit (and allowed me to rush a few more temple & libs for extra culture), but more territory from Persia or Babylon would surely have pushed me over the dom limit... So why start a war with them...

dalgo · Jul 6, 2014

dominatr said:
That is good trickery, but by the time MPPs are available in the game, my empires are generally large enough to take on multiple opponents.

That may depend on the difficulty level. In my case by the time MPPs are available I am so far behind I have no choice but to employ trickery like this just to stay in the game

MPP query

dalgo

Emperor

Lanzelot

Moderator

dominatr

Smoke Jaguar

Lanzelot

Moderator

tjs282

Stone \ Cold / Fish

dominatr

Smoke Jaguar

Lanzelot

Moderator

dalgo

Emperor

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