Rise and Fall of House Julii

Picture colours much better than previously. And pic itself better, seems to me. Not perfect, but definitely a step forward! :)
BTW Don't you think Julii to Agustus would be better?
Click to expand...
Roma: per Julii ad Augustus
? I'm not joking with the title this time.
 
Wolfshade said:
Picture colours much better than previously. And pic itself better, seems to me. Not perfect, but definitely a step forward! :)

Roma: per Julii ad Augustus
? I'm not joking with the title this time.
Click to expand...

I'll consider it but don't know if it will be appropriate. I haven't actually set the game length yet but my initial plan is 753BCE to 400AD. This is very flexible. I may shorten it to 180AD, the start of the persian rise in power.
 
The Guardian said:
I'll consider it but don't know if it will be appropriate. I haven't actually set the game length yet but my initial plan is 753BCE to 400AD. This is very flexible. I may shorten it to 180AD, the start of the persian rise in power.
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If I might make a suggestion for the title, how about Ab Urbe Condita (or Roma: Ab Urbe Condita if you prefer), which roughly translates as "from the foundation of the city" and is also the name of Livy's history of Rome and an occasionaly used daiting system.
 
Here is the latest on the map.
This is the minimap


This is a section of the map showing Italy. This will give you an idea of how big the map is.
Spoiler :



 

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You could also include the Lusitans, they were not Spaniards and along with their leader Viriato they defeated Rome time and time again. They also traded with Phoenicia and fough with Carthage in the Punic Wars, and controlled the regions of nowadays Portugal, Galiza, Extremadura and parts of León.

Although they were tribes, they shared a common leader and had a confederecy to act as government. The greeks and egypt considered them as the greatest and largest of iberian tribes.

Here´s a little bit of history:
Spoiler :
Viriato
For nearly 200 years, Rome waged an episodic war to colonize the Iberian peninsula in western Europe. The most difficult fighting was encountered in the western areas of the peninsula - the home of the tribal confederation known as the Lusitans. And the general who embodied the spirit of this resistance, was Viriato.

Little is known about Viriato’s background and upbringing. He likely grew up a shepherd, the occupation of most Lusitanians. In the third century BC, Rome started its conquest of the Iberian Peninsula and for a time, things progressed easily. In 150 BC the consul Servius Sulpicius Galba commanded the Roman troops in Iberia and began to focus on the Lusitanian resistance. Fearing the destruction of their lands, the Lusitanians sent an embassy to him. Galba received the Lusitanian embassy politely, suspended the offensive and promised to give lands to the Lusitanian people. The offer turned out to be a trap. When the unarmed Lusitanians, among them Viriato, tried to reclaim the lands promised by Galba, many were killed. Viriato was among those who escaped.

Viriato never forgot the Roman treachery. Later, when some Lusitanian leaders prepared to make a new agreement with the Romans after a major loss of lives to the Roman army of Caius Vetilius, Viriato reminded them of Galba’s trick and proposed a Lusitanian War against the Romans. The Lusitanians cried with joy. Viriathus organized an attack against Caius Vetilius in Tribola.

Since the Romans were better armed, he organized guerrilla tactics and sprung imaginative ambushes. Strabo describes their tactics “The Lusitans are given to laying ambush, given to spying out, are quick nimble and good at deploying troops. They have a small shield two feet in diameter, concave in front, and suspended from the shoulder by means of thongs, for it has neither arm rings or handles. Besides these shields they have a dirk or butchers’ knife. Most of them wear linen cuirasses; a few wear chain-wrought cuirasses and helmets with three crests, but the rest wear helmets made of sinews. The foot-soldiers wear greaves also, and each soldier has several javelins; and some also make use of spears, and the spears have bronze heads.” Charging with their spears, tridents and roars, the Lusitanians defeated Vetilius, beginning a string of Lusitanian victories. In response to their setbacks, Rome sent one of its best generals, Servilius Cipianus, to Iberia. Near Sierra Morena, the Romans fell into a Lusitanian ambush. A contemporary account of this confrontation reported that, “Viriato, at the head of 6000 troops, attacked him with loud shouts and barbaric clamor, his men wearing the long hair which in battles they are accustomed to shake in order to terrify their enemies.” Victorious, Viriato did not harm the Romans and let the soldiers and Servilianus go. Servilianus declared Viriato and the Lusitanians to be, “amici populi Romani, or “friends of Rome” and recognized the Lusitanian rule over their own lands. The Roman senate, initially receptive to Servilianus’ treaty with the Lusitanians, soon grew restless. However, they had learned to know their enemy and changed their tactics. Knowing that the Lusitanian resistance was largely due to Viriato’s leadership, Marcus Pompilius Lenas bribed Audax, Ditalcus, and Minurus, three Lusitanians sent by Viriatho as an embassy to establish peace. These ambassadors returned to their camp and killed Viriato while he was sleeping. When they returned to the Roman camp for their reward, the consul Servilius Cipianus ordered their execution, declaring, “Rome does not pay traitors.” With the death of Viriato, the Lusitanian resistance began to end, although total pacification of Lusitania was only achieved under Augustus.


Hannibal used some in the invasion of Italy and they were later described as superb swordsmen and natural horsemen. The lusitan horse was among the finest in the ancient world for its speed and maneuverability.

Here´s the faction moded for RTW in Iberia Total War official mod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25088

Wish you good work on this very promissing Mod, and is the map already up for download? it looks incredible!

Small tip: to allow better civ development, a few more rivers could be benefitial.
 
The Guardian said:
I'll consider it but don't know if it will be appropriate.
Click to expand...
Just spent some time for quick look at Roman rulers history.
Julii: in Roman history from 7th century BC.
Augustus (I counted from Octavian to Nero, I could make a mistake, correct me, please, if I did wrong): 27 BC - 68 AD.
So these guys were on the power for ~750 years of 1150 totally (according to you master plan). It's 2/3 approximately + that time Rome has come to power & glory. So I don't see a big historical mistake in "per Jlii ad Augustus" title.

About map:
1) will there be Vesuvio & Etna volcanoes (I can't see them on the map now - maybe it's my bad vision flaw)?
2) Apennini Montes - you placed precisely close to their truly position, but maybe their line should be a bit thicker? Play testing will show if it's actually good for the game, there's just a minor severity warning. :)
 
Wolfshade said:
Just spent some time for quick look at Roman rulers history.
Julii: in Roman history from 7th century BC.
Augustus (I counted from Octavian to Nero, I could make a mistake, correct me, please, if I did wrong): 27 BC - 68 AD.
So these guys were on the power for ~750 years of 1150 totally (according to you master plan). It's 2/3 approximately + that time Rome has come to power & glory. So I don't see a big historical mistake in "per Jlii ad Augustus" title.

About map:
1) will there be Vesuvio & Etna volcanoes (I can't see them on the map now - maybe it's my bad vision flaw)?
2) Apennini Montes - you placed precisely close to their truly position, but maybe their line should be a bit thicker? Play testing will show if it's actually good for the game, there's just a minor severity warning. :)
Click to expand...

Your time line is indeed pretty correct. That is one of the reasons that I chose the original title. As I mentioned in the intro, there is a lot of dissention regarding the early history of Rome. There is not even any agreement regarding the founding of the city. Who were these Romans? Where did they come from? NO ONE has a definitive answer. You are correct, House Julii ruled the world for approximately 3/4 of a millennium, 3/4 of a MILLENNIUM ! ! !

Yes Vesuvio and Etna are both there. :lol: Seeing one volcano on that map, at that distance . . is like trying to see a dime while standing on the moon :crazyeye:. Ok Ok that might be a sliiiiight exageration, but yes they are there.

I poured over dozens of maps of the ancient Roman Empire and the ancient medeterrainian while designing this scenario. I'm pretty sure everything is correct, but not 100% positive. I still haven't decided on an exact timeline so don't get excited, yet. The title is a working title and can definitely be changed before release. There is a lot of work yet to be done.

Right now I am working on the problem of what can be built where and how I can control what units will be able to be built by whom and where can they be built. I don't want to see the Persians producing palace guards in Dacia and I don't want to see Rome producing Praetorian guards in Lythia. Nor do I want to see Lybian mercenaries being build in northern England.
 
That's one of the advantages to pre-placed cities. You can place buildings that autoproduce said units. Than again, you can force the resources to be in the city radius.
 
Yeah, resources in the radius are the way to go, IMO, especially with "elite" troops. Also, to think about is what troops you really need to be specific, and what can you broaden, e.g. do you need an Etruscan Legion, or could a generic Italian Legion do? :)
 
Bowsling said:
That's one of the advantages to pre-placed cities. You can place buildings that autoproduce said units. Than again, you can force the resources to be in the city radius.
Click to expand...

I have 32 strategic and luxury resources to work with and there will be approximately 200 - 220 unique units, 23 -26 civs with about 20 cities each that's 460 - 520 cities. It's not that easy. What would really be nice, if I could use a building as a prerequisite for a unit, but the developers never thought of that. :mischief: :cry: :mad: :wallbash:


OH and BTW I am not against auto producing units. I use it frequently but the more auto pruduction you use, the less control the player has. auto produce everything and the player becomes a spectator.
 
first of all the map looks great!

second of all, if you are only keeping Troy in as a civ to fill map space i have a number of other suggestions, ranging from Pontus to Lydia to Phrygia to Ionian Greeks (capital at Miletus). I'm well aware of the many other levels of Troy, but again it was not a civ at this point. it was a colony of other civs, much like syracuse was (although obviously not nearly as successful as the latter).

third of all, the Julii did not rule the world for 3/4 a millennium.

a) Julii (ie the julio-claudian dynasty) ruled Rome for ~120 years (from 47 BC [casear as dictator] - 68 AD [death of nero])

b) Rome didn't "rule the world" until 27 BC at the latest. During the period from 753 BC until 27 BC you had Assyria, then Babylon, then Persia, then Carthage and the succession of Macedonians in control of the relevant parts of the world. Rome was a minor player until the 3rd century BC. Alexander would have crushed Rome.

fourth of all, i think you should explore zoned off, distinct areas, much like SOE (and AoI) uses.


but again its looking great! keep us posted on progress!
 
King Coltrane said:
first of all the map looks great!

second of all, if you are only keeping Troy in as a civ to fill map space i have a number of other suggestions, ranging from Pontus to Lydia to Phrygia to Ionian Greeks (capital at Miletus). I'm well aware of the many other levels of Troy, but again it was not a civ at this point. it was a colony of other civs, much like syracuse was (although obviously not nearly as successful as the latter).

third of all, the Julii did not rule the world for 3/4 a millennium.

a) Julii (ie the julio-claudian dynasty) ruled Rome for ~120 years (from 47 BC [casear as dictator] - 68 AD [death of nero])

b) Rome didn't "rule the world" until 27 BC at the latest. During the period from 753 BC until 27 BC you had Assyria, then Babylon, then Persia, then Carthage and the succession of Macedonians in control of the relevant parts of the world. Rome was a minor player until the 3rd century BC. Alexander would have crushed Rome.

fourth of all, i think you should explore zoned off, distinct areas, much like SOE (and AoI) uses.


but again its looking great! keep us posted on progress!
Click to expand...

I would have to argue some of those facts with you KC. After the second Punic war (201BCE) Rome was arguably the strongest imperical power in the mediterrainian. They provoked war with Macedonia only 1 year after the destruction Carthage and completed the conquest of Greece within 60 years. So the beginning of Romes Domination actually began approximately 200BCE. If we accept the decline of the empires domination commenced with the fall of the western empire, and ( I'll be generous here ) that date would fall around[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 406 when Alans crossed the Rhine. So here you have a period [/FONT]of no less than 606 years of domination. Slightly greater than the 32 years comprising Alexanders total life and the the 183 years after his death when Rome conquered Greece.

BTW - LOL You must have been reading my mind. This morning was thinking about putting PONTUS into the game. Lydia has already been put in. WOW - dangerous minds think alike. LMFAO
 
Virote_Considon said:
Yeah, resources in the radius are the way to go, IMO, especially with "elite" troops. Also, to think about is what troops you really need to be specific, and what can you broaden, e.g. do you need an Etruscan Legion, or could a generic Italian Legion do? :)
Click to expand...

What I want to do is include the actual historical legions in their proper locations as listed
HERE.
I plan on doing this by creating an improvement/building called the Castrum Legionaria
( a fort )
in each capital which can only be built by the Romans after they capture the capital city. Each Castrum will be named after its respective Legio and will auto produce units for that Legio every X number of turns ( not yet determined ). The improvement requires 2 resources. One resource is constant ( same resource for all locations ) and only available to Rome and the second is variable ( differant for all location ). These units are being create as new units. The auxiliary unit will not need special attention as they will be available to all cities controlled by the Romans.

FEY there will be approximately 200 + new units created for the scenario.
 
glad you put in pontus and lydia... so no troy now?! :D

btw, another civ idea is Pergammum. perfect geographic setting, hellenistic successor state, interacted with Rome quite a bit.

On another note, while i completely agree that Rome dominated the western med. after the second punic war and were also more powerful than the antigonid macedonians, they certainly did not "rule the world" or even the entire med. The Seleukid and Ptolemaic empires (the true macedonian heirs to Alexander in terms of empire grandeur) were still powerful. yes, rome was greater than the seleukids by 180, but the ptolemies were still pretty stable and powerful for a long time afterward. again, rome was powerful, but it didn't "rule the world" by 200.

similarly, the Julii family didnt rule rome the entire time. when you said "House Julii ruled the world for approximately 3/4 of a millennium", i was reacting to that because its not true. Rome dominated "the world" for that long (already covered the whole "rule" thing :p), but the Julii family only ruled for 120 years, which is obviously longer than alexander :)
 
King Coltrane said:
glad you put in pontus and lydia... so no troy now?! :D

btw, another civ idea is Pergammum. perfect geographic setting, hellenistic successor state, interacted with Rome quite a bit.

On another note, while i completely agree that Rome dominated the western med. after the second punic war and were also more powerful than the antigonid macedonians, they certainly did not "rule the world" or even the entire med. The Seleukid and Ptolemaic empires (the true macedonian heirs to Alexander in terms of empire grandeur) were still powerful. yes, rome was greater than the seleukids by 180, but the ptolemies were still pretty stable and powerful for a long time afterward. again, rome was powerful, but it didn't "rule the world" by 200.

similarly, the Julii family didnt rule rome the entire time. when you said "House Julii ruled the world for approximately 3/4 of a millennium", i was reacting to that because its not true. Rome dominated "the world" for that long (already covered the whole "rule" thing :p), but the Julii family only ruled for 120 years, which is obviously longer than alexander :)
Click to expand...

I would love to have sit down with you one day :beer: and discuss the various attributes of the ancient civilizations from the brave days of old. We could harrang each other about who was greater, Leonidus or Horatius. You could extole the virtues of the phalanx
:old: :coffee: while I expound the greatness of the legio. :aargh: :sleep: Until then ... :rockon:
 
Just add a "era none" tech that allows irrigation, but cannot be traded, and give it to Egypt as a starter tech in the editor. :)
 
Let's try to make this clearer. I've added religions to my mod, allowing only the Egyptians to build the Pyramids. Pyramids require the "Egyptian Polytheism" tech that I'm giving to Egypt as a free tech.



Now they will be able to use it from the start. It's an era none tech, so nobody else will be able to research it.

Here's the tech.



In "Worker Jobs", set Irrigation to be enabled with this special tech, and you're good to go.
 

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